From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 14 10:55:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16896 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:55:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA29893 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:37:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 14 Jan 00 08:26:36 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , cangel@famvid.com writes: > On 2000-01-13 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: > > JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc > > --8<--cut > > JA> define foo > > JA> undefines the macro and releases the memory. The limitation is > JA> that you can only have so many macros defined at a given time. It > JA> is the responsibility of the script write to undefine those that > JA> s/he does not need. > > Good to know, that will work. 8) > > JA> While I have your attention I've been compiling and fiddling > JA> with the WATTCP package which claims to have a part of it's code > JA> inside MSKermit. > > JA> WATTCP and Kermit's TCP stack parted company many Moons ago. They > JA> are hardly compatible anymore. > > Did the author of WATTCP assist when the code _was_ used many moons ago or > was it a `maintainer' of the code? Please read what we said. Erick donated his code, bless him, I rewrote from that point forward. A fork in the road. Joe D. >> , , >> o/ Charles.Angelich \o , >> <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ >> / > USA, MI < \ __\__ > From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 14 11:25:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21960 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:25:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00770 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:57:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Stones@mindless.REMOVE.com Subject: Re: USB and internal modems Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:36:26 GMT Message-ID: <38803297.11421972@news.netdirect.net.uk> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:09:58 -0800, "Steve Baus" wrote: -I a trying to work with someone with a Win 98 PC that currently has a com1 -and an internal modem that says it is on com2:. In the control panel - -system, there is no listing for a com2: Nobody can tell me for sure but the -internal modem sounds like a winmodem. If I have them pull out the internal -modem and install another non-win, non-rpi modem will Kermit 3.15 work even -without a com2:? Where you may run into trouble is with a newish PC that only contains PCI slots. Pure DOS won't recognise a PCI modem, so Kermit 3.1x won't either. I did find recently a PCI modem in windows which had a DOS "emulation" setting, which configured the modem as COM3. This was then recognised by Kermit 3.15 in a DOS window in Windows 98. I have no idea if other makes of modem support this "mode", which is enabled in Device Manager/Modems/Settings, but mine was a MagicXpress, made by Askey. As to your original question - the lack of COM2 is no problem either way. If your PC has an ISA slot simply hard configure the modem as COM2, and kermit 3.15 will pick it up. If you want the modem to work IN Windows with K95, then configure it Plug&Play. K95 will see it as the TAPI modem. If you want both, then that can get a bit complicated...... -Rob stones at mindless.com (return address anti-spammed) From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 14 12:25:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04533 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:25:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA04911 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:13:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Clarence Dold Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 14 Jan 2000 17:08:08 GMT Organization: a2i network Message-ID: <85nl5o$oau$1@samba.rahul.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cangel@famvid.com wrote: : code be in two ASCII formats when kermit itself has no problem doing binary : transfers nor do any other protocols I am of aware of since the '80s? Sometimes it is chicken-and-egg. I recently found myself in a situation where there was no "comm" available, due to a failed Y2K patch. I could have used any one of many different protocols, but none were installed, in December of 1999, in Manhattan. I wanted a "BOO" file. After visiting the site with a diskette that had kermit on it, away I went. Jefferey Altman mentioned that he had been in the neighborhood, and would have been glad to drop off a copy, on the media of my choice. Support! ;-) I've been in several "spots" where I had a whole pile of protocols on one end of a wire, and none on the other. I'm quite pleased to see G-Kermit listed on the http://www.gnu.org page, and I assume, associated with various GNU-using Linux varieties. But that's a different topic, for a different platform. -- --- Clarence A Dold - dold@email.rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 14 16:55:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02797 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:55:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA18304 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:44:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "Steve Baus" Subject: Re: USB and internal modems Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:33:59 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Ended up going with the Zoom 2919 which is an ISA modem. Steve Stones@mindless.REMOVE.com wrote in message From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 14 17:25:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08300 for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:25:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA19843 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:15:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #7: Internet Kermit Service Date: 14 Jan 2000 22:15:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85o76k$jc0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu The new Internet Kermit Service combines the convenience and speed of FTP with the features of Kermit. But let's make one thing clear from beginning -- it isn't FTP, it's Kermit. Since the very beginning, Kermit has been a do-it-yourself affair. It lets you make a connection from one computer to another, and then, if you start a second Kermit program on the second computer, it also lets you transfer files. So it's like FTP except you have to "install" (or start) the FTP server on the far end yourself -- it's not just waiting there for you. Aside from the possibly tricky mechanics, the other drawback of the traditional arrangement is the requirement that you have a user ID on the second computer (at least on platforms that require login). FTP, on the other hand, allows anonymous access; you can get files from any FTP server as user "anonymous", and in some cases also upload files, depending on site policies. Now C-Kermit 7.0 (UNIX version only) lets you do this too. In one of its many guises(1), C-Kermit 7.0 can be installed as an Internet Kermit Service, similar to your FTP, Telnet, Web, and other servers, and it works the same way. It has its own TCP socket, 1649; when a connection comes in on this socket, the Internet Services Daemon (inetd) starts a copy of C-Kermit in "IKSD mode" -- i.e. as an Internet Kermit Service Daemon (IKSD) -- just for you. An IKSD client can be any telnet client that also includes Kermit protocol, but the ones that work best are C-Kermit, Kermit 95, and MS-DOS Kermit. Once you make the connection to IKSD you have to log in, either as a real user or anonymously (unless authentication occurs automatically), just as you would to an FTP server. Once logged in, if have an IKSD-aware client, or at least a client that offers Kermit protocol client-end commands such as GET, REMOTE xxx, FINISH, and BYE, you can conduct all further business from your client, just as you would with an FTP client (but with Kermit commands, not FTP commands). But unlike FTP, IKSD also lets you interact directly with the server in your terminal window, where you will find the familiar Kermit prompt and all its features -- command and filename completion, ?-menus, macros, and all the rest. If your client is C-Kermit 7.0, Kermit 95 1.1.17, or or MS-DOS Kermit 3.16 Beta, you should find that file transfers with IKSD are about as fast as with FTP because it's a reliable socket-to-socket connection where streaming can be done (explained in yesterday's post), and all these new Kermit versions support streaming. With other clients, performance should will be good as good as the client's Kermit protocol implementation. Now look at what IKSD offers you that FTP doesn't: . A selection of secure authentication methods (1)(2). . Character-set translation (3). . Filename collision options such as UPDATE. . Flexible file selection mechanisms. . Preservation of file timesamps and permissions (3). . Automatic per-file text/binary mode switching (3). . Recursive directory-tree transfer (3). . Recovery of interrupted binary-mode transfers (2). . Automation of any task you could do by hand, no matter how complicated. The newsgroups are plastered every day with "How do I automate FTP?" queries. IKSD is a good answer. And the automation can be driven from either client side or the server side. IKSD has some other advantages over FTP too: . You don't necessarily need an Internet connection to access it. For example, you could place a (non-PPP) modem call to a terminal server, "telnet" from the terminal server to IKSD, and then have an IKSD session with your dialup program. . Since IKSD uses one socket -- unlike FTP, which uses two -- you might be able to transfer files through firewalls with IKSD that could not be transferred with FTP. We've had IKSD running on the Kermit Project server for the past several months; you are invited to try it out. The instructions are here: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/cuiksd.html You can also install IKSD at your own site; for directions, read this: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/f/iksd.txt If you read the latter file, you'll see that all sorts of security, configuration, logging, and monitoring options are available, including a real-time SYSDPY-like display of active sessions with the ability to zoom in on selected sessions. IKSD protocols and services are described in a pair of Internet Drafts, which presumably will be promoted to RFCs shortly: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/standards.html The 1649 socket is official; the service name is "kermit": http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/port-numbers Hopefully it will find its way into /etc/services and equivalent files on all platforms in the coming months, so you can refer to the service by name rather than number. Notes: (1) More about this in a future posting. (2) A handful of FTP clients and servers can do this too. (3) If your client supports this feature too. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 15 03:25:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA05983 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 03:25:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA16942 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 03:21:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: <011500030242not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 08:20:54 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi Jake, (N.B.: this is 495 lines long) Hi everybody, I am now replying to "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities" of January 6 (a reply to my own)... This was published in comp.protocols.kermit.misc: MS> ...i've noticed the driver files which are found inside the Caldera MS> `DR-WebSpyder' ShareWare archive... J> ...I was hoping someone could tell me where to find this "Caldera J> `DR-WebSpyder' ShareWare archive"?? Caldera `DR-WebSpyder' ShareWare archives can be found at: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/misc/caldera/drwebspyder/ ... (DRWebDem.144 - 1M4 & DiskCopy.COM - 23K8, r2.04 *OR* DRWebDem.EXE - 1M4) ftp://ftp.misa.ac.ru/pub/old/caldera/drwebspyder/ ... (DRWebDem.IMG - 1M4 & DiskCopy.COM - 23K8, r2.04) In case you'd want to see more of the `DiskCopy.COM' utility, a couple alternate ~URL~s for getting it follow; it's part of the `MKDskZIP.EXE' self-extractable archive. - Here are the site addresses: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/misc/caldera/drdos/DR-DOS.702/IMAGES/ ... (MKDskZIP.EXE 88K6) ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/misc/caldera/drdos/DR-DOS.702/IMAGES/ ... (MKDskZIP.EXE 88K6) Now, here's what you can expect from Caldera's bootable diskettes: DrWebDem.144 - 15 files, 1M4 : DrWebDem.IMG - 16 files, 1M4 DrWebDem.EXE : (slightly customized version) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: AutoExec.BAT 929 980818 17h16 Ashr : 936 980508 15h49 Ashr Choice .COM : 7824 980216 07h02 Ashr Command .COM 66657 980227 07h02 Ashr : 50032 980311 15h30 Ashr DRMouse .COM 17559 980903 12h15 Ashr : 17692 980506 10h40 Ashr Fade .COM 55 980727 10h43 Ashr : 858 971126 17h26 Ashr IBMBIO .COM 29594 980227 07h02 ASHR : 29594 980216 07h02 aSHR IBMDOS .COM 30720 980227 07h02 ASHR : 30800 980311 11h53 Ashr Splash .COM 8848 980727 10h43 Ashr : VDrvChng.COM 605 980310 14h34 Ashr : 605 980310 14h34 Ashr COM_Port.EXE 19869 980508 15h00 Ashr : 19869 980508 15h00 Ashr ************************************** : ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' WS32 .EXE 1165280 980819 12h25 Ashr : 1174898 980508 16h07 Ashr <== ************************************** : ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, WebSplsh.GIF 7117 980817 15h23 Ashr : DRLogo .LGO : 64768 980311 11h44 Ashr ANSI .SYS : 3320 980310 09h46 Ashr Config .SYS 152 980727 10h52 Ashr : 149 980506 16h25 Ashr EMM386 .SYS 40010 920428 09h13 Ashr : 40010 920428 09h13 Ashr VDisk .SYS 4077 980216 07h02 Ashr : 4077 980216 07h02 Ashr Welcome .TXT 1761 980818 12h36 Ashr : 1872 980508 15h58 Ashr The file of interrest here is `WS32.EXE'; its size doesn't make it too convenient for use on "legacy" machines, at 1 Mega-byte... Nonetheless, if you can manage with it, you'll find the following executables at any of the sites which i've just mentioned above: LSL .COM 18356 960401 10h55 Link Support Layer v2.20 (960401) NCOMX .COM 22520 960606 1h01 Async board MLID driver v3.13 (950825) NWRemote.COM 15024 980424 12h51 DOS ODI NetWare Stack v3.14 (950830) Pkt2ODI .EXE 8795 980424 2h00 Packet-driver to ODI converter r1.00 Dialer .EXE 134608 980424 2h00 Dialer r1.00 (terminal or script mode) One other file of interrest is `IPXODI.COM' and it can be found at one of these locations: ftp://ftp.telekabel.at/ ... /pub/chello/Treiber/Netzwerkkarten/Accton/ENet/PCMCIA/En2218/ ... .. /NETWARE/NWCLIENT/ ... (IPXODI.COM - 38K8, v3.03 960611) ftp://ftp.psych1.uni-hamburg.de/pub/novell/VLM/IBM_6/ ... (NWUnPack.EXE - 37K9, v2.1 & IPXODI.CO_ - 22K, v3.03 960611) Finally, should both sites fail to work, euh... here's a last one: ftp://ftp.dlink.com/adapters/de650/uncompressed/IBMPC/NETWARE/ ... (IPXODI.COM - 38K4, v3.01 941031) N.B.: Copies of `NWUnPack.EXE' and `IPXODI.CO_' are found in here too: ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/pc/caldera/DR-DOS.703/images/disk01.144 ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/pc/caldera/DR-DOS.703/images/disk03.144 ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/misc/caldera/drdos/DR-DOS.702/IMAGES/DISK01.144 ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/misc/caldera/drdos/DR-DOS.702/IMAGES/DISK03.144 Of course, that's quite a big DownLoad for such small utilities!... ;-> [...] Relatively to configuration, you'll get a basic setup in `DR_Web-Spyder' but it needs some workout to really become usefull (as a general purpose stack/packet-driver)... The four `Net-COM#.CFG' configuration files did not allow me to run `Kermit' via its DIRECT DOS ~ODI~ interface until i made some changes - the packet-driver at 0x69 should work fine too. The "!" characters of this listing must be replaced with spaces (my `Kermit' macro won't allow me to send idented texts yet!): ********************************************************[ Net_Bak.CFG ]* Link driver NCOMX !!!!!INT 4 !!!!!PORT 3F8 !!!!!PROTOCOL IP 800 PPP ; Related to Kermit (SLIP/PPP) !!!!!PROTOCOL IPX 8137 PPP !!!!!PROTOCOL ARP 806 PPP !!!!!PROTOCOL RARP 8035 PPP Link Support !!!!!Buffers 8 1504 !!!!!MemPool 8192 PROTOCOL TCPIP !!!!!BIND NCOMX !!!!!IP_ADDRESS 0.0.0.0 !!!!!IP_NETMASK 255.255.255.0 #First router (Domain Name Server) !!!!!IP_ROUTER 204.101.251.1 #Second router !!!!!IP_ROUTER 204.101.251.2 #Third router # (none) !!!!!NB_BRDCAST 204.101.251.255 !!!!!TCP_MAXSEGSIZE 1460 !!!!!TCP_WINDOW 1024 !!!!!TCP_SOCKETS 8 !!!!!UDP_SOCKETS 6 !!!!!RAW_SOCKETS 1 #Gateway # IP_GATEWAY 0.0.0.0 PROTOCOL KERMIT !!!!!BIND NCOMX PROTOCOL IPX !!!!!BIND 1 PROTOCOL NESL !!!!!BIND NCOMX PROTOCOL TCPDRVR ; For TERMview/NC !!!!!LINK DRIVER NCOMX ****************************************************************[ EOF ]* As for `Dial.CFG', it's usable as is. I didn't need or want to make use of `Dial.SCP' since i have to type my UserName & PassWord in a terminal mode LogIn session: i didn't succeed making ~PAP~ work yet and there might be a problem for those who happen to use lower-case letters... I didn't fiddle with `NESL.COM' because that one doesn't seem to be required at all for `Kermit' and/or some other programs to work. %-) The one thing with which i did fiddle somewhat is this: a batch command file to load the ~TSR~s, start the dialer, grab the ~IP~ addresses from the screen to check them and redial in case of a possible problem... to feed them to the different client applications, etc... Here it is: *************************************************************[ Go.BAT ]* @ECHO OFF REM This batch-file sets up the DOS Novell NetWare REM [O]pen [D]ata-Link [I]nterface which is found REM in Caldera's `DR_Web-Spyder' demo diskette. REM REM An `EtherNet' Packet-Driver "shim" allows it to REM be used with `WatTCP' applications. A 2nd shim REM should allow for the use of Trumpet ~TCP~/~ABI~ REM applications (only, it hasn't done much so far). : REM N.B.: An ~ANSI~ driver is required for this to REM work. `VMANSI.COM v2.70' needs less than REM 2 Kb ~RAM~, it's found in `VMix285.ZIP'. : XEcho.COM \27[1;47;30m\13\10 CLS SET MyIP= :ReDial IF NOT (%MyIP%) == (Failed) GOTO Dial XEcho.COM \13\27[1A\27[1A\27[1A\27[0;40;30m\27[K\27[1B\27[1B\27[1B XEcho.COM \27[1;47;31mThe installation now recycles.\27[K XEcho.COM \27[0m\13\10\32\27[K\13\10\27[K\13\10\27[1A\27[1m XEcho.COM Press [\27[36mCtrl\27[37m]+[\27[36mC\27[37m] to abort. XEcho.COM \32 \13\10 XEcho.COM \32 \13\10\27[1A :Dial REM `NTCPDrv.EXE v3.1' is from `NTCPDrv.ZIP'. REM See `TCP201.ZIP' for related applications. IF EXIST NTCPDrv.EXE NTCPDrv.EXE -U>Nul REM `LSL.COM' v2.20, `NCOMX.COM' v3.13 and `NWRemote.COM v3.14' are REM from the former Novell NetWare suite. `Pkt2ODI.EXE r1.00' is the REM only ~TSR~ which appears to be an original creation of Caldera... IF EXIST Pkt2ODI.EXE Pkt2ODI.EXE /U>Nul REM `Termin.COM v11.1' is needed only when trying `ODIPkt.COM v3.0' REM instead of `Pkt2ODI.EXE' - some more tests remain to be done... IF EXIST Termin.COM Termin.COM 0x69>Nul IF EXIST NWRemote.COM NWRemote.COM U>Nul IF EXIST NCOMX.COM NCOMX.COM U>Nul IF EXIST LSL.COM LSL.COM U>Nul IF NOT (%MyIP%) == (Failed) GOTO Reset REM Prompt before recycling!... PAUSE XEcho.COM \27[1;47;30m\32\27[K\13\10\27[1A CLS :Reset SET IP= SET DNS= SET MYIP= SET REMIP= SET GATEWAY= SET NETMASK=255.255.255.0 : REM * I M P O R T A N T * Put your own user-specific parameters here! : REM Scripting might be an option, eventually. Beware: some REM CAPITALIZATION seems to possibly happen in ~PAP~ LogIns! rem SET Key=PassWord SET DNS1=204.101.251.1 SET DNS2=204.101.251.2 SET DOMAIN=sympatico.ca SET POP3=pop1.sympatico.ca SET FTP=www3.sympatico.ca rem SET NEWS= rem SET SMTP= rem SET EMAIL= :Load REM `Net_Bak.CFG' is a sort of "template" configuration-file here... COPY Net_Bak.CFG Net.CFG>Nul REM `XEcho.COM v1.1' is from `XEchoV11.ZIP'. REM Setting the ~UART~'s ~FIFO~ trigger level IS NOT required, usually; REM it may not help but in MARGINAL CASES ONLY (where the PC is loaded). rem XEcho.COM \27[1;31mFIFO adjustment in progress...\27[K\27[0m\13\10 REM `SetFIFO.EXE r1.00' can be found inside Novell `DOS7****.EXE' REM and it needs help from `KeyTap.EXE v1.30' (`KeyTap13.ZIP')... REM Present setting: SetFIFO.EXE 1_(Enable) 2_(COM2) 3_(Medium). rem KeyTap.EXE SetFIFO.EXE // [=]123 REM The `ACOM v3.03' FreeWare is a bit more configurable but the problem REM with that utility is it's written in *German* and it may fail on PCs REM like mine where the ~BIOS~ is too old to recognize COM3/~IRQ5~, etc. REM Present setting is for COM1. rem ACOM.EXE COM1 FIFO 8 rem ECHO. REM This label refers to an entry point which skips loading/dialing. REM `TestScrn.CAP' is a capture previously made for testing purposes. XEcho.COM \27[0;40;36m IF (%1) == () GOTO NoFake XEcho.COM \27[24;0H TYPE TestScrn.CAP IF NOT EXIST TestScrn.CAP GOTO End GOTO ReadIP :NoFake XEcho.COM \27[1;47;30mTSR loading & phone dialing in progress... XEcho.COM \32\27[K\13\10\27[1m XEcho.COM \27[1;40;37m\27[K\13\10 LSL.COM XEcho.COM \27[0;40;37m\27[K\13 NCOMX.COM XEcho.COM \13\27[1;40;37m\13\10\32\27[K\13 NWRemote.COM XEcho.COM \27[0;40;36m\13\10\32\27[K\13\10 SET GateWay= SET MyIP= SET RemIP= REM `Dialer.EXE r1.00' is from Caldera's `DR_Web-Spyder'. This original REM utility benefits from the use of the "B:" option on 8088/8086 `XT's REM which often run an older DOS version such as v3.30 - a bare minimum. REM The output of `Dialer.EXE' is easily captured (IF running a script). IF (%Speed%) == () SET Speed=57600 Dialer.EXE /B:%Speed% rem SET Speed= IF ERRORLEVEL == 0 GOTO ReadIP XEcho.COM \27[24;0H\27[1;40;31m* A N E R R O R O C C U R E D * GOTO Failure :ReadIP Set the screen right (to ease the work of `IPRead.COM'). XEcho.COM \13\10\10\27[21;74H(MyIP)\27[22;73H(RemIP)\27[25;0H XEcho.COM \10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10\10 XEcho.COM \27[23;0H\27[1;40;31m REM `IPRead.COM v0.15' is from `IPCfg012.ZIP'. IPRead.COM "local ip = ">$IP#.BAT REM `IPRead.COM' looks for a *WELL-FORMED* numeral ~IP~ address... IF ERRORLEVEL == 1 GOTO Abort XEcho.COM \27[1A\13\27[K\27[1;40;31m CALL $IP#.BAT DEL $IP#.BAT SET IP=%MyIP% XEcho.COM \13\27[23;0H\27[1;40;31m IPRead.COM "gateway ip = ">$IP#.BAT IF ERRORLEVEL == 1 GOTO Abort XEcho.COM \27[1A\13\27[0;40;30m\27[K\27[1;44;37m CALL $IP#.BAT DEL $IP#.BAT SET RemIP=%MyIP% SET MyIP=%IP% REM Variable for `NTCPDrv.EXE' - the `Trumpet' DOS packet driver: REM don't clear this variable if it's going to be needed later... rem SET IP= :Abort REM Redial? REM `IPRead.COM' eases the task of checking the ~IP~ REM addresses since *LEADING ZEROS ARE STRIPED OFF*: REM "0.0.0.0" is a suspicious Local ~IP~ address!... IF (%MYIP%)==() GOTO Failure rem IF (%MYIP%)==( IF (%MYIP%)==(0.0.0.0) GOTO Failure IF (%REMIP%)==() GOTO Failure rem IF (%REMIP%)==( IF (%REMIP%)==(0.0.0.0) GOTO Failure GOTO Success :Failure SET MyIP=Failed GOTO ReDial :Success XEcho.COM \13\10\27[5;0H\13 ECHO Updating the dynamic IP address in `Net.CFG'... REM `XChange.COM' is found in `Yan-22ux.EXE' -or- `NMO-E03.EXE' but REM `NetMail & OLIM' has a number of *usefull* utilities inluded... XChange.COM Net.CFG "IP_ADDRESS 0.0.0.0" "IP_ADDRESS %MyIP%">Nul XEcho.COM \13\10Updating other configuration files & variables: XEcho.COM \13\10\13\10\27[0m ECHO - Creating `WatTCP.CFG'... REM It may be usefull to include the *FULL PATH* name here!... SET WatTCP.CFG=WatTCP.CFG ECHO my_ip=%MYIP%>WatTCP.CFG ECHO gateway=%REMIP%>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO netmask=%NETMASK%>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO nameserver=%DNS1%>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO nameserver=%DNS2%>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO domainlist=%DOMAIN%>>WatTCP.CFG REM Most of this section is for RLFossil, a 386+ Virtual ~TelNet~ MoDem. ECHO print="WatTCP: BootP, ~FOSSIL~, ~BIOS INT-14~, etc...">>WatTCP.CFG ECHO hostname="bbs">>WatTCP.CFG ECHO idname=guess>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO aamask=0000>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO cd_delay=72>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO nc_delay=18>>WatTCP.CFG REM Move the "term_type=" statement to `RLFossil.CFG' for conveniency... ECHO include=RLFossil.cfg>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO inport=0>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO outport=23>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO handshake=3>>WatTCP.CFG GOTO Make_NOS REM News & Mail. ECHO nntphost=%NEWS%>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO smtphost=%SMTP%>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO mailaddr=EMAIL%>>WatTCP.CFG :Make_NOS ECHO include=ksp.cfg>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO.>>WatTCP.CFG ECHO - Creating `NOS.CFG'... REM Worked fine with `KA9Q NOS v911229', `KA9Q NOS v920106' (ghm/was). ECHO domain suffix %DOMAIN%.>NOS.CFG ECHO ip address %MYIP%>>NOS.CFG REM `Pkt2ODI.EXE'/`ODIPkt.COM' both use vector 0x69 (unless specified). ECHO attach packet 0x69 sl0 5 1600>>NOS.CFG ECHO domain addserver %DNS1%>>NOS.CFG ECHO domain addserver %DNS2%>>NOS.CFG ECHO route add default sl0>>NOS.CFG ECHO - Creating `RLFossil.CFG'... REM Term_Type=ansi/115200 or tty/115200 (max.) but `RLFossil.EXE' REM never seemed to be able to attain more than 19K2 bps anyway! ECHO term_type=vt100/115200>RLFossil.CFG REM Quit here to skip the following (i.e. DOS ~ODI~ only); REM would be a good place for loading `IPXODI.COM v3.03'! rem GOTO End XEcho.COM \13\10\13\10\27[1;40;37m XEcho.COM The `Pkt2ODI' packet-driver shim can be loaded.\13\10\13\10 XEcho.COM Press [\27[36mCtrl\27[37m]+[\27[36mC\27[37m] to abort.\13 XEcho.COM Press \27[0m[\27[1;36mCtrl\27[0;37m]+[\27[1;36mC\27[0;37m] XEcho.COM \27[1m to abort. \13\10 XEcho.COM \32 \13\10\27[1A PAUSE CLS REM The `BookMark.COM' ~TSR~ marker shouldn't be required (also known as REM `Install' or `Mark') - it helps freeing up memory in some bad cases. rem BookMark.COM Pkt2ODI XEcho.COM \27[40;1;33m\27[K Pkt2ODI.EXE REM Quit here to skip the following... rem GOTO End XEcho.COM \13\10\13\10\27[1;40;37m XEcho.COM Trumpet's TCP ABI packet-driver can be loaded.\13\10\13\10 XEcho.COM Press [\27[36mCtrl\27[37m]+[\27[36mC\27[37m] to abort.\13 XEcho.COM Press \27[0m[\27[1;36mCtrl\27[0;37m]+[\27[1;36mC\27[0;37m] XEcho.COM \27[1m to abort. \13\10 XEcho.COM \32 \13\10\27[1A PAUSE CLS REM Set variables for `NTCPDrv.EXE' - the `Trumpet' DOS packet driver. REM `IP' has been set previously, in a section above... SET GATEWAY=%REMIP% SET DNS=%DNS1% XEcho.COM \27[1;40;32m\27[K NTCPDrv.EXE rem SET GATEWAY= rem SET DNS= :End XEcho.COM \27[1;37m\27[K\13\10 ****************************************************************[ EOF ]* This batch-file can use a number of small utilities; most of which can be found on SimTelNet (and its mirror sites). Here are some references: ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/trumpet/tcp-abi/ntcpdrv.zip (24K3) ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/batchutl/xechov11.zip (8K3) ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/.1/garbo/garbo_pc/keyboard/keytap13.zip (10 Kb) ftp://ftp.vernet.lv/pub/msdos/relcom/misc/setfifo.exe (1K9) ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/.3/sac/utildiag/acom303.zip (60 Kb) ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/batchutl/savscr27.zip (13K4) http://members.kingston.net/lewis/nmo-e03.exe (401 Kb) prefered to `Yan' http://www.qsl.net/ve3lgs/yan-22ux.EXE' (363 Kb) ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/batchutl/cutpak12.zip (311K9) ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/internet/ipcfg012.zip (20 Kb) ftp://ftp.ucdavis.edu/dos-public/useful/ (`Mark'/`Remove' = `BookMark') [...] A few months ago, i've loaded the DOS ~PPP~ pilots (which are used here) on a `Tandy-1000' (8088 4,77 Mhz), equiped with a v42.Bis internal MoDem (16550 ~UART~), 640 Kb ~RAM~ and no Hard-Disk... If i'm not mistaking, `Kermit' DID allow for DownLoads in ~TelNet~ sessions - AT THAT TIME. I am sorry to say that i no longer succeed in reproducing it now - i can't remember what i done so special to it, back then... %-o Anyway, it has a good chance of working without problem on most `PC-AT' (286+) machines and mabe some `PC-XT Turbo' as well. There are many things that i haven't tried with this yet but i couldn't hold my present post any longer... You'll have to find out for yourself about the rest! One last comment i can make is that the ~KALI~ DOS game interface should be useable here, once `IPXODI' is loaded... ;-) Maybe that's enough incentive for users to investigate this a bit further! :) For my part, i still have no clue as to why `Kermit's macros exit after a couple executions (that "eat up" too much memory), euh... I thought a variable was somewhat different from a loaded set of macros but it seems i'll have to guess again! %( Now, with all these details on how to get a DOS ~TCP~/~IP~ stack for `Kermit', euh... MAYBE I CAN HOPE THAT SOME GOOD SAMARITAN WILL GET ME A * REAL-LIFE * WORKING CURE FOR MY MACROS! Euh... Hummm... Well, `DOSPPPd v0.6 Beta' sure *IS* known to be a fine DOS ~TCP~/~IP~ stack to the DOS users, euh... :*) So... I'm afraid i must confess that this kind of link it to the actual line of topic seems to be thin like a hair, after all... but i what can i say?! I couldn't but notice that "contributions" appear to be appreciated here and i sure do like to help when i can! 8*) I couldn't resist much more... Sorry. ;-> This area doesn't feel like it's the appropriate one for disscussing our kind of topic, Jake. Looks like it's populated only with Linux people; i suggest we'd be better in `demon.ip.support.pc' if we are to pursue... What do you think?... :^) [...] I wish you luck on your quest... Have a nice week-end! :) Have fun!!! 8-) Best salutations, Michel Samson From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 15 16:25:30 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25773 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:25:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA22251 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:07:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study 8: Unicode Date: 15 Jan 2000 21:07:28 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85qnig$ln8$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Who doesn't know what Unicode is? Now that computing has become so widespread and Web-centric -- a revolution in itself -- we are on the brink of another major revolution in computing, one that will have profound effects on all of us and perhaps even on the future course of history. Until now, most computer text has been recorded in single-byte 7-bit or 8-bit character sets (1), one per language or language group. For example, the default character set of the Web is ISO 8859-1 Latin Alphabet 1, which can encode English plus most West European languages: Italian, Spanish, German, Icelandic, etc. But it can't encode East European languages like Polish, Czech, or Hungarian, even though they use the same alphabet, because the accents are different. Nor can it represent languages like Russian, Arabic, Hebrew, or Japanese that use other writing systems. Therefore, to write in languages other than our own we often have to switch character sets, and as anybody who has tried it can tell you, that's a tricky business. And it's even trickier if we need to mix different languages in the same document; for example, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, and Armenian. The great promise of the Internet is to bring people in all countries together as never before. We can get to know one other and appreciate each other's languages and cultures with unprecedented convenience. And the great lesson of mass computer and Internet culture so far is: for anything to catch on, it has to be easy. Coping with the current Babyl of character sets is anything but easy: different platforms use different private character sets (such as PC code pages), which must map to any of an array of standard character sets (such as the ISO Latin alphabets) or to different private character sets on other platforms. If languages are to be mixed, elaborate and often product-specific switching mechanisms are required. Unicode to the rescue. For more than 10 years, a consortium of corporate, academic, and standards-body representatives has been working to create a single universal character set capable of representing all the world's writing systems. To find out all about Unicode, visit the Unicode Consortium website: http://www.unicode.org/ Unicode marks a fundamental change in how we compute. Each character is represented not by a single byte (1), but can be one, two, three, four, or more bytes, depending on the specific Unicode Transformation Format (UTF) used and the specific characters involved. But since we have fifty years of software written for the one-byte-per-character model, the transition to Unicode will be a long process. One, however, that is already well underway. A major part of this transition is the creation of Unicode fonts. The work is being done piecemeal, with each font containing a (perhaps) different subset of Unicode, with additional characters and writing systems added over time. Your computer might already support Unicode to some extent. To check, visit: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/utf8.html This is a no-frills plain-text web page containing text in many languages(2) encoded in Unicode Transformation Format 8 (UTF-8). You might see a lot of "unknown glyph" boxes or gibberish, depending on your browser, font, and locale. Now visit: http://www.hclrss.demon.co.uk/unicode/fonts.html for a survey of Unicode fonts to see how you might be able to widen the horizons of your own computer right now. Try installing an updated font and visiting the UTF-8 Sample page again. What you see marks a great leap forward: a vendor-neutral, application- independent method for encoding text in many languages -- and some day, we hope, all languages. Unlike other Web pages you might have seen, there are no tricks here -- for example, no GIFs to represent Chinese or Hebrew. It's just plain text. You can select and copy it like any other text, but whether you can paste it into another application depends on the other application. On Windows 95 and later, for example, you can paste it into Word with a Unicode font such as Arial or Times New Roman selected, and see several of the non-Roman scripts but not necessarily all of them. The Kermit Project has been a member of the Unicode Consortium for years, and now C-Kermit 7.0 supports Unicode as transfer character-set, a file character-set, and a terminal character-set. All of a sudden you have a convenient cross-platform tool for migration to Unicode and interfacing between Unicode and traditional environments. For example: . You can make a connection from a traditional environment to a a Unicode platform (such as Plan 9) and have Kermit translate between your local character-set and Unicode during the terminal session. Or vice versa. (3) . You can send traditionally encoded text (say, Italian encoded in Latin-1 or Code Page 850) to a Unicode environment, and you can import Unicode text to your traditional environment. . You can convert local files from traditional character sets to Unicode, and vice versa. . You can convert between different Unicode Transformation Formats. C-Kermit's Unicode support is integrated with all its other character-set support, which covers: . English and West European (Latin-1) languages. . East European Roman-Alphabet (Latin-2) languages. . Russian, Ukrainian, and other languages written in Cyrillic. . Greek. . Hebrew. . Japanese. Others can, and no doubt will, be added in the future. All of this and more will be included in the forthcoming releases of Kermit 95. Most of what you see on the UTF-8 Sample Page, you will also be able to see on your Kermit 95 screen; it's "just" a matter of having the right font (4). As usual, I've rambled on longer than planned and still only scratched the surface. For greater detail, read Section 6.6 of the ckermit2.txt file. Notes: (1) Oversimplification. Traditional East Asian character sets, among others, use various multibyte encodings. (2) If you can add languages to this page, please let me know. (3) To learn about Unicode support in Linux, visit (4) A GUI window is required in Windows 95 and 98, but not in Windows NT or 2000. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 15 17:25:32 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07924 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 17:25:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA25459 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 17:17:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: awouk@syzygy.nilenet.com (Arthur Wouk) Organization: NileNET, Ltd. Subject: C-Kermit 7 very slow - what can be done? Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:05:39 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu they have just installed c-kermit 7.0 on nilenet, and i am seeing a marked drop in performance from the previous release. i cannot get ANY file transfer (nothing is downloaded) unless i use either the cautious or the robust option. with cautious i get no more than a transfer rate of 2869cps (binary - 33.5k baud modem). i used to get over 3000cps on the same line with the same modem. with robust the performance drops to about 1870 cps. i tested with a 70k binary file, so that performance measure is pretty accurate. so, are there any parameters to be tuned to improve performance? this is from a sun SPARC station 20 running Solaris 2.6 to a SPARC station2 running Solaris 2.4, in case that has any bearing on the matter. the SPARC2 is running c-kermit6.0.192. ~ -- .. the purpose of the mass media is to cultivate public stupidity and conformity in order to protect the capitalist upper classes from interference by the masses. - noam chomsky to send me email, remove 'syzygy.' from my address From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 15 17:25:32 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07926 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 17:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA25738 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 17:23:48 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7 very slow - what can be done? Date: 15 Jan 2000 22:23:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85qs1k$p47$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Arthur Wouk wrote: : they have just installed c-kermit 7.0 on nilenet, and i am seeing a : marked drop in performance from the previous release. i cannot get ANY : file transfer (nothing is downloaded) unless i use either the : cautious or the robust option. : That's a fairly sure indicator of a transparency problem; version 7 sends many control characters "bare" now instead of prefixing. The set of bare controls is safe in most environments but obviously not all. To back off on control-character unprefixing, tell C-Kermit 7.0 to "set prefixing all" or "set prefixing cautious". Or fine-tune with "set control [un]prefix ". : ... with cautious i get no more than a : transfer rate of 2869cps (binary - 33.5k baud modem). i used to get : over 3000cps on the same line with the same modem. with robust the : performance drops to about 1870 cps. : CAUTIOUS and ROBUST are "macros" that adjust not only prefixing but also packet length and window size. I think you only need to worry about the prefixing. : this is from a sun SPARC station 20 running Solaris 2.6 to a : SPARC station2 running Solaris 2.4, in case that has any bearing on the : matter. the SPARC2 is running c-kermit6.0.192. : None of this should matter -- what really matters is: what box or "thing" along the communication path is sensitive to what control characters? - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 15 21:55:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20061 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 21:55:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA07394 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 21:40:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 02:35:11 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-14 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA> In article , JA> wrote: cA> How does the number "9x" keep popping up? A universal size that cA> `fits all'? JA> The original Kermit protocol implementation had a max packet length JA> of 94 bytes. Unfortunately, this is all that most third party JA> implementors choose to support. The 94 byte packet is devastatingly slow at today's modem speeds. Wouldn't it be a worthwhile priority for this newsgroup and the `team' to stress the fact that this is no longer the optimum packet size and get the message across to other software authors? I'm really not equipped to persuade them and it just becomes an argument when I try to persuade them. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 15 22:25:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20984 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:25:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA09309 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:20:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <1Iag4.2678$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 03:14:05 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-14 dold@email.rahul.net said: CA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc CA> cangel@famvid.com wrote: CA> code be in two ASCII formats when kermit itself has no problem doing CA> binary transfers nor do any other protocols I am of aware of since the CA> '80s? --8<--cut DO> in December of 1999, in Manhattan. I wanted a "BOO" file. After visiting DO> the site with a diskette that had kermit on it, away I went. Jefferey DO> Altman mentioned that he had been in the neighborhood, and would have DO> been glad to drop off a copy, on the media of my choice. DO> Support! ;-) Nice for you. You must be a very special person. Thank you for sharing this with all the rest of us who are _not_ special. DO> I've been in several "spots" where I had a whole pile of protocols on one DO> end of a wire, and none on the other. Failing memory? > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 15 22:25:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20986 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA09312 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:20:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <4Iag4.2679$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 03:14:08 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-14 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD>In article , JD>>cangel@famvid.com writes: On 2000-01-13 jaltman@watsun.cc. JD>columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: > --8<--cut JD>> CA> While I have your attention I've been compiling and fiddling with JD>> CA> the WATTCP package which claims to have a part of it's code inside JD>> CA> MSKermit. JD>> JA> WATTCP and Kermit's TCP stack parted company many Moons ago. they JD>> JA> are hardly compatible anymore. JD>> CA> Did the author of WATTCP assist when the code _was_ used many moons ago JD>> CA> or was it a `maintainer' of the code? JD> Please read what we said. I did read what "we" said. "Parted company" in the USA implies that there was some unpleasantness in the separation. The word "hardly" implies that there are similarities in the code. JD> Erick donated his code, bless him, I rewrote from that point forward. A JD> fork in the road. Possibly a more specific answer to the question would aid in my being able to understand the answer. "Parted company", "hardly", and "fork in the road" are poetic but not in any way specific. In a technical discussion they are no answer at all. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 15 22:25:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA20989 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA09306 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:20:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <_Hag4.2677$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 03:14:02 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-14 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA> In article <66Af4.3341$0l4.96678@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, JA> wrote: CA> Is there a binary archive of this source code anywhere that I can CA> download or am I going to need a way to decode a 1meg+ UUE? Why would the CA> MSKermit source code be in two ASCII formats when kermit itself has no CA> problem doing binary transfers nor do any other protocols I am of aware CA> of since the '80s? JA> From the web page JA> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html JA> "The source code for MS-DOS Kermit is in the JA> ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/ JA> directory. The filenames all start with "ms" and end JA> with ".asm", ".h" and ".c"." Yes, I could see that individual portions of the code were there. I have found that most TCP/IP telecom packages are quite complex in the way that OBJ files are compiled and then finally linked to create the executable(s). For this reason many have embedded subdirectories and include a `makefile' that either contains multiple definitions for various compilers or at least can be edited for the compiler on hand at the time. I was under the impression this was more or less standard procedure for packages of this complexity. The fact that archives _do_ exist would indicate that at some point in time this was considered necessary. Both archives being in unusual formats is a bit out of the ordinary. The `boo' format being non-standard and as I've said no apparent decoder for `boo' anywhere in sight. This is not unremarkable in itself IMO. Anyone care to expand on the reason(s) why a binary archive cannot be made available for MSKermit source code? > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 01:55:36 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05936 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:55:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA18021 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:37:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 16 Jan 2000 06:37:22 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85rov2$hj2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : The 94 byte packet is devastatingly slow at today's modem speeds. : : Wouldn't it be a worthwhile priority for this newsgroup and the `team' to stress : the fact that this is no longer the optimum packet size and get the message : across to other software authors? : : I'm really not equipped to persuade them and it just becomes an argument when : I try to persuade them. If you read the archives of this newsgroup for the last 15 years you will see that we have done our best to try. Not only in this newsgroup but in the protocol manual "Kermit: A File Transfer Protocol" and the books "Using MS-DOS Kermit" and "Using C-Kermit" in all editions. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 01:55:37 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05938 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:55:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA18117 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:40:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 16 Jan 2000 06:40:36 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85rp54$hm2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <_Hag4.2677$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, wrote: : The fact that archives _do_ exist would indicate that at some point in time : this was considered necessary. Both archives being in unusual formats is a : bit out of the ordinary. The `boo' format being non-standard and as I've : said no apparent decoder for `boo' anywhere in sight. : : This is not unremarkable in itself IMO. The BOO files are encoded binary files not source files. Is there as reason that you are unable to say mget ms*.asm ms*.c ms*.h ... in your ftp client? As for supporting multiple compilers. MS-DOS Kermit is written primarily in assembly language. It requires an assember, MASM, in addition to a compatible compiler DOS C compiler. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 01:55:38 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05943 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:55:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA18386 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:48:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 16 Jan 2000 06:48:52 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85rpkk$hue$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <4Iag4.2679$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, wrote: : : Possibly a more specific answer to the question would aid in my being able : to understand the answer. "Parted company", "hardly", and "fork in the road" : are poetic but not in any way specific. In a technical discussion they are : no answer at all. I will try to answer the question one more time. At some point in the past the author of WATTCP donated his code to the Kermit Project. In other words, he gave permission to the Kermit Project to use his source code in MS-DOS Kermit. There were no efforts made to ensure that the changes that were put into MS-DOS Kermit and the changes that were made to WATTCP were kept in sync. The reason for this is that the needs and motivations of the two development efforts were very different. It would be exceedingly difficult after more than 10 years for you to go back and apply the changes to the MS-DOS Kermit TCP/IP stack to the WATTCP code. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 01:55:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA05946 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:55:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA18183 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 01:44:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 16 Jan 2000 06:44:43 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85rpcr$ho4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <1Iag4.2678$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, wrote: : DO> in December of 1999, in Manhattan. I wanted a "BOO" file. After visiting : DO> the site with a diskette that had kermit on it, away I went. Jefferey : DO> Altman mentioned that he had been in the neighborhood, and would have : DO> been glad to drop off a copy, on the media of my choice. : : DO> Support! ;-) : : Nice for you. You must be a very special person. Thank you for sharing this : with all the rest of us who are _not_ special. What makes you think Mr. Dold is so special? The point of his statement is that I was going to be near where he was. So I offered to bring him what he needed. Mr. Dold has been a long time contributor to this newsgroup for as long as I can remember, but that does not make him special. When I travel the world I often make a point of meeting with our users. I have done so in South Africa, Sweden, and several cities around the U.S. : DO> I've been in several "spots" where I had a whole pile of protocols on : DO> one end of a wire, and none on the other. : : Failing memory? Most older computers did not come with any networking or file transfer protocols. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 12:55:40 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12492 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:55:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16339 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:45:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 16 Jan 00 10:09:38 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , cangel@famvid.com writes: > On 2000-01-14 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: > > JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc > JA> In article , > JA> wrote: > > cA> How does the number "9x" keep popping up? A universal size that > cA> `fits all'? > > JA> The original Kermit protocol implementation had a max packet length > JA> of 94 bytes. Unfortunately, this is all that most third party > JA> implementors choose to support. > > The 94 byte packet is devastatingly slow at today's modem speeds. > > Wouldn't it be a worthwhile priority for this newsgroup and the `team' to > stress the fact that this is no longer the optimum packet size and get the > message across to other software authors? > > I'm really not equipped to persuade them and it just becomes an argument > when I try to persuade them. > > Charles.Angelich ------------- But you are equipped to make the argument to us. The matter has been gone over in detail in public and in our docs for a very long time. The controls are their for use, so please use them in the manner which fits your communications environment. Those environments differ dramatically from site to site, so controls are rather necessary. Please tend to your environment and hopefully things will work well. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 12:55:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12494 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:55:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16345 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:45:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 16 Jan 00 10:19:46 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <4Iag4.2679$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, cangel@famvid.com writes: > On 1900-01-14 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: > > JD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc > JD>In article , > JD>>cangel@famvid.com writes: On 2000-01-13 jaltman@watsun.cc. > JD>columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: > > > --8<--cut > > JD>> CA> While I have your attention I've been compiling and fiddling with > JD>> CA> the WATTCP package which claims to have a part of it's code inside > JD>> CA> MSKermit. > > JD>> JA> WATTCP and Kermit's TCP stack parted company many Moons ago. they > JD>> JA> are hardly compatible anymore. > > JD>> CA> Did the author of WATTCP assist when the code _was_ used many moons > JD>> CA> ago or was it a `maintainer' of the code? > > JD> Please read what we said. > > I did read what "we" said. "Parted company" in the USA implies that there > was some unpleasantness in the separation. The word "hardly" implies that > there are similarities in the code. > > JD> Erick donated his code, bless him, I rewrote from that point forward. A > JD> fork in the road. > > Possibly a more specific answer to the question would aid in my being able > to understand the answer. "Parted company", "hardly", and "fork in the road" > are poetic but not in any way specific. In a technical discussion they are > no answer at all. You infer too much, and incorrectly. Why you pursue this point is beyond me, and my suggestion is don't. Joe D. >> >> , , >> o/ Charles.Angelich \o , >> <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ >> / > USA, MI < \ __\__ > From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 12:55:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12498 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:55:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA16342 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:45:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 16 Jan 00 10:16:49 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <_Hag4.2677$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, cangel@famvid.com writes: > On 2000-01-14 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: > > JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc > JA> In article <66Af4.3341$0l4.96678@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, > JA> wrote: > > CA> Is there a binary archive of this source code anywhere that I can > CA> download or am I going to need a way to decode a 1meg+ UUE? Why would > CA> the MSKermit source code be in two ASCII formats when kermit itself has > CA> no problem doing binary transfers nor do any other protocols I am of > CA> aware of since the '80s? > > JA> From the web page > JA> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html > JA> "The source code for MS-DOS Kermit is in the > JA> ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/ > JA> directory. The filenames all start with "ms" and end > JA> with ".asm", ".h" and ".c"." > > Yes, I could see that individual portions of the code were there. I have > found that most TCP/IP telecom packages are quite complex in the way that > OBJ files are compiled and then finally linked to create the executable(s). > > For this reason many have embedded subdirectories and include a `makefile' > that either contains multiple definitions for various compilers or at least > can be edited for the compiler on hand at the time. > > I was under the impression this was more or less standard procedure for > packages of this complexity. > > The fact that archives _do_ exist would indicate that at some point in time > this was considered necessary. Both archives being in unusual formats is a > bit out of the ordinary. The `boo' format being non-standard and as I've > said no apparent decoder for `boo' anywhere in sight. > > This is not unremarkable in itself IMO. > > Anyone care to expand on the reason(s) why a binary archive cannot be made > available for MSKermit source code? > I gather that you haven't actually looked at the source files. If you were to do so then a makefile would be evident. It's handy but not necessary. The suite isn't a messy array of this and that in subdirectories and subsidary makefiles; that is not necessary with MS-DOS Kermit. Please read the material and the construction should be clear to you. MASM v6 or later and MS C v6 or later are required to build the program. There is no support for other assemblers or C compilers, so using them would require work on the part of the person using them. Joe D. >> >> , , >> o/ Charles.Angelich \o , >> <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ >> / > USA, MI < \ __\__ > From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 17:25:42 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03619 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:25:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA28748 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:20:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Mark Sapiro Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 14:01:00 -0800 Organization: Not Very Much Message-ID: <38823F9C.B4A8C1DF@value.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <_Hag4.2677$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, cangel@famvid.com writes: >Jeffery Altman Wrote: JA> From the web page JA> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html JA> "The source code for MS-DOS Kermit is in the JA> ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/ JA> directory. The filenames all start with "ms" and end JA> with ".asm", ".h" and ".c"." > Yes, I could see that individual portions of the code were there. I have > found that most TCP/IP telecom packages are quite complex in the way that > OBJ files are compiled and then finally linked to create the executable(s). > For this reason many have embedded subdirectories and include a `makefile' > that either contains multiple definitions for various compilers or at least > can be edited for the compiler on hand at the time. > I was under the impression this was more or less standard procedure for > packages of this complexity. The makefiles are there. For a complete descreption of the naming conventions , etc. used in the MS-Kermit archive found in the ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/ directory, READ the file ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/msaaaa.hlp > The fact that archives _do_ exist would indicate that at some point in time > this was considered necessary. Both archives being in unusual formats is a > bit out of the ordinary. The `boo' format being non-standard and as I've > said no apparent decoder for `boo' anywhere in sight. For more than you ever wanted to know about .boo files, READ ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/msbaaa.hlp Among other things, this will tell you which of the files in the ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/ directory are .boo decoders (there are several). Note however, that none of the .boo files in this directory contain MS-Kermit source. That is not the purpose of .boo files. > Anyone care to expand on the reason(s) why a binary archive cannot be made > available for MSKermit source code? If you actually want the source code, it's all there for you to obtain. If you just want to whine about how it's packaged, I think this group is tired of hearing about it. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 18:55:43 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23280 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:55:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA02568 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:40:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #9: Printing Date: 16 Jan 2000 23:40:08 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85tkso$2g6$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu C-Kermit 7.0 offers many ways to print, some of which are new. This discussion focuses on the Unix version of C-Kermit but to some extent also applies to Kermit 95 and MS-DOS Kermit. Each kind of printing uses the SET PRINTER value as the destination for material to be printed. You can see the current SET PRINTER value with SHOW PRINTER. The default PRINTER value is "(default)", which means to use the default system printer. The Unix version of C-Kermit lets you select different SET PRINTER values, which can be: 1. A filename, to redirect all printer output to the specified file. Each print operation appends to the given file (or creates it if it doesn't exist). 2. A pipeline; that is, a pipe symbol followed by one or more commands, which are to receive the material to be printed as standard input; for example "set printer {| lpr -PLaserJet5L}". Of course the command need not be "lpr"; it can be anything at all. Printing methods are as follows: 1. The PRINT command, which lets you print a local file. You can include printer options after the filename; for example in Unix (when using "lpr"): "print oofa.txt -#3" to print 3 copies of the oofa.txt file. 2. SET DESTINATION PRINTER. This tells C-Kermit to send any files that are received using Kermit protocol to the SET PRINTER device, rather than storing them on disk. (Other destinations include DISK, SCREEN, and NOWHERE.) 3. The SEND /PRINT command tells C-Kermit to send a file to the Kermit program on the other computer and have it printed there (RPRINT and REMOTE PRINT are synonyms for SEND /PRINT). 4. The -G command-line option, new to C-Kermit 7.0, is like -g (GET) but sends the incoming file to standard output so it can be piped into a command such as "lpr". 5. Transparent printing, new to C-Kermit 7.0, operates when C-Kermit is in CONNECT mode. Transparent printing is initiated by the host when it sends the escape sequence [5i to the terminal (when C-Kermit is in CONNECT mode, C-Kermit is the "terminal"). All subsequent material goes to the printer (rather than the screen) until the escape sequence [4i arrives, which means to stop printing. C-Kermit 7.0 does transparent printing only if you tell it to SET TERMINAL PRINT ON. By default, TERMINAL PRINT is OFF for compatibility with previous releases and also because you might be accessing Unix from a real terminal or a terminal emulator that you want to handle the transparent printing. The SHOW TERMINAL command tells you whether PRINT is ON or OFF. Unlike the Kermit-protocol based methods, transparent printing is NOT error-checked; this can make a difference on serial connections that are noisy or not well flow-controlled. Also, transparent-print material is not converted in any way. When using the Kermit protocol methods, on the other hand, you get error-free data transfers in your choice of text or binary mode and, with text transfers, your choice of character-set translations. For details about transparent printing, see Section 3.3 of ckermit2.txt. Now let's try to make some sense of this jumble. When you are using Kermit, you are usually using two computers at once: one (let's call it A) where you have used to Kermit to make a connection to the second one (call it B). Either Computer A or Computer B (or both) can have a printer that you want to use. Considering these two computers: 1. You can print a Computer A file on Computer A's printer. 2. You can print a Computer A file on Computer B's printer. 3. You can print a Computer B file on Computer A's printer. 4. You can print a Computer B file on Computer B's printer. Here is a summary of some (not necessarily all) ways to do each with Kermit: 1. To print a local file from the Kermit prompt on Computer A: . You can use Kermit's PRINT command. . Use a "shell escape" command like "!lpr -P oofa.txt" . In some cases you can also use the COPY command; e.g. in Kermit 95, where the printer is accessed as a device rather than as a command. 2. To send a (local) file from Computer A to be printed on Computer B: . You can transfer it with Kermit in the traditional manner and then give the appropriate command to Computer B to print it. . You can use SEND /PRINT (RPRINT, REMOTE PRINT) to transfer the file to Computer B's Kermit program, which should send it directly to Computer B's printer. . If Computer B has C-Kermit 7.0, you can use: kermit -G | lpr on Computer B. This triggers an "autoupload" from Computer A and the result is sent to Computer B's printer by piping it to Computer B's lpr command. . A Kerbang Script can be used on Computer B: #!/usr/local/bin/kermit + set destination printer get {\%1} exit \v(status) 3. To print a Computer B (remote) file on Computer A's (local) printer: . You can transfer it with Kermit in the traditional manner and then give the appropriate command to Computer A to print it. . You can tell Computer A's Kermit to SET DESTINATION PRINTER and then send the file with Kermit from Computer B to Computer A. . You can start Kermit on Computer B and give it a SEND /PRINT (RPRINT, REMOTE PRINT) command. This should trigger an autodownload to Computer A's Kermit program, which should send the file directly to its local printer. . While Kermit on Computer A is in CONNECT mode, use a transparent printing command like "pcprint" on Computer B. Remember, C-Kermit must first have this feature enabled with SET TERMINAL PRINT ON. 4. To use Computer A to cause a Computer B file to be printed on Computer B: . With Computer A's Kermit in CONNECT mode, just give the appropriate printing command at Computer B's prompt. . With Computer B's Kermit program at its prompt, give it a PRINT command for the desired file. . With Computer B's Kermit in server mode, and Computer A's Kermit at its prompt, give the command "remost host ", where is the command used for printing on Computer B, and is the name of the file on Computer B to be printed. For symmetry Kermit should also have a GET /PRINT print command; this will be added in a future release. For now use SET DESTINATION PRINTER, GET, and then SET DESTINATION DISK to restore the default destination in case you will be transferring more files. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 19:55:43 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02026 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:55:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA05026 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:29:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <%ntg4.4438$NU6.161022@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:47 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-16 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA> In article , JA> wrote: JA> The 94 byte packet is devastatingly slow at today's modem speeds. JA> Wouldn't it be a worthwhile priority for this newsgroup and the JA> `team' to stress the fact that this is no longer the optimum JA> packet size and get the message : across to other software authors? JA> I'm really not equipped to persuade them and it just becomes an JA> argument whenI try to persuade them. JA> If you read the archives of this newsgroup for the last 15 years you JA> will see that we have done our best to try. Not only in this JA> newsgroup but in the protocol manual "Kermit: A File Transfer JA> Protocol" and the books "Using MS-DOS Kermit" and "Using C-Kermit" JA> in all editions. It is buried on the 7th html page of the kermit website last I knew. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 19:55:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02028 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:55:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA05097 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:30:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:38 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-16 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD>In article <4Iag4.2679$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, JD>>cangel@famvid.com writes: On 1900-01-14 jrd@cc.usu. JD>edu(JoeDoupnik) said: > JD>>JA> WATTCP and Kermit's TCP stack parted company many JD>>JA> Moons ago. they JD>>JA> are hardly compatible anymore. JD>>JD>>CA> Did the author of WATTCP assist when the code _was_ JD>>JD>>CA> used many moons ago JD>>JD>>CA> or was it a `maintainer' of the code? JD>> JD> Please read what we said. JD>> I did read what "we" said. "Parted company" in the USA implies JD>> that there was some unpleasantness in the separation. The word JD>> "hardly" implies that there are similarities in the code. JD>>JD> Erick donated his code, bless him, I rewrote from that JD>>JD> point forward. A fork in the road. JD>> Possibly a more specific answer to the question would aid in my JD>> being able to understand the answer. "Parted company", "hardly", JD>> and "fork in the road" are poetic but not in any way JD>> specific. In a technical discussion they are no answer at all. JD> You infer too much, and incorrectly. Why you pursue this point is JD> beyond me, and my suggestion is don't. JD> Joe D. I am forced to `infer' because the replys are vague. I am beginning to wonder why I pursue this myself. I can't seem to get anything useful as a result. I'm not sure if the `team' is unable or unwilling to give direct answers to direct questions and I don't think I really care to take the time to find out. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 19:55:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA02032 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:55:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA05093 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:30:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <2otg4.4439$NU6.161022@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:51 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-16 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD>In article , JD>>cangel@famvid.com writes: On 2000-01-14 jaltman@watsun.cc. JD>columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: > JD>>CA> How does the number "9x" keep popping up? A universal size JD>>CA> that `fits all'? JD>>JA> The original Kermit protocol implementation had a max packet JD>>JA> length of 94 bytes. Unfortunately, this is all that most JD>>third party implementors choose to support. JD>> The 94 byte packet is devastatingly slow at today's modem speeds. JD>> Wouldn't it be a worthwhile priority for this newsgroup and the JD>> `team' to stress the fact that this is no longer the optimum JD>> packet size and get the message across to other software authors? JD>> I'm really not equipped to persuade them and it just becomes an JD>> argument when I try to persuade them. JD>> Charles.Angelich JD>------------- JD> But you are equipped to make the argument to us. It's not an `argument' it's a suggestion. The subject is what this newsgroup and the `team' are _about_. It's not what sysops and BBS are _about_. You have an obligation to care about how kermit is perceived, BBS sysop's could care less. JD> The matter has been JD>gone over in detail in public and in our docs for a very long time. JD>The controls are their for use, so please use them in the manner JD>which fits your communications environment. Those environments JD>differ dramatically from site to site, so controls are rather JD>necessary. Please tend to your environment and hopefully things JD>will work well. Joe D. I do "tend to my environment" but it can't "work well" when authors of software hard code 94 byte packets into their software because all kermit software was packaged with that as the default setting for many many years (this is from your own website buried at or about page 7). Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 20:25:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03094 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:25:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA06678 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:02:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:41 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-16 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA>In article <4Iag4.2679$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, JA> wrote: CA> Possibly a more specific answer to the question would aid in my CA> being able to understand the answer. "Parted company", "hardly", CA> and "fork in the road" are poetic but not in any way CA> specific. In a technical discussion they are no answer at all. JA> I will try to answer the question one more time. JA> At some point in the past the author of WATTCP donated his code to JA> the Kermit Project. In other words, he gave permission to the JA> Kermit Project to use his source code in MS-DOS Kermit. There were JA> no efforts made to ensure that the changes that were put into JA> MS-DOS Kermit and the changes that were made to WATTCP were kept in JA> sync. The reason for this is that the needs and motivations of the JA> two development efforts were very different. This is the information I was looking for, thank you. JA> It would be exceedingly difficult after more than 10 years for you JA> to go back and apply the changes to the MS-DOS Kermit TCP/IP stack JA> to the WATTCP code. Having not looked at the MSK code I cannot say what this would involve but the ability to do this or not do this is more a matter of how much time I would be willing to devote to doing such a thing. I would be more inclined to rebuild from the ground up rather than augment either `package'. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 20:25:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03096 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:25:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA06680 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:02:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:45 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-16 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA> In article <1Iag4.2678$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, JA> wrote: JA>DO> in December of 1999, in Manhattan. I wanted a "BOO" file. JA>DO> After visiting the site with a diskette that had kermit JA>DO> on it, away I went. Jefferey Altman mentioned that he had JA>DO> been in the neighborhood, and would have been glad to drop JA>DO> off a copy, on the media of my choice. JA>DO> Support! ;-) JA> Nice for you. You must be a very special person. Thank you for JA> sharing this with all the rest of us who are _not_ special. JA> What makes you think Mr. Dold is so special? Ah ... he wants a copy of a file and is offered "home delivery", I ask about the same type of file and it seems to annoy everyone. Different and not !Support! by my definition. JA> The point of his statement is that I was going to be near where he JA> was. So I offered to bring him what he needed. Mr. Dold has been a JA> long time contributor to this newsgroup for as long as I can JA> remember, but that does not make him special. When I travel the JA> world I often make a point of meeting with our users. I have done JA> so in South Africa, Sweden, and several cities around the U.S. The rest of us don't travel the world (and don't care) but thanks for sharing that with us. JA>DO> I've been in several "spots" where I had a whole pile of JA>DO> protocols on one end of a wire, and none on the other. JA> Failing memory? JA> Most older computers did not come with any networking or file JA> transfer protocols. How old? I've been at this since just after the need to buy a kit and solder the thing together yourself. 20+ years or so. At the very minimum I had ASCII transfer available. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 20:25:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03099 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:25:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA06683 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:02:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:30:07 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-16 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD>In article <_Hag4.2677$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, JD>>cangel@famvid.com writes: On 2000-01-14 jaltman@watsun.cc. JD>columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: > JD>>CA> Is there a binary archive of this source code JD>>CA> anywhere that I can download or am I going to need a way to JD>>CA> decode a 1meg+ UUE? Why would the MSKermit source code be JD>>CA> in two ASCII formats when kermit itself has no problem doing JD>>CA> binary transfers nor do any other protocols I am of aware of JD>>CA> since the '80s? JD>>JA> From the web page JD>>JA> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html JD>>JA> "The source code for MS-DOS Kermit is in the JD>>JA> ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/ JD>>JA> directory. The filenames all start with "ms" and end JD>>JA> with ".asm", ".h" and ".c"." JD>>CA> Yes, I could see that individual portions of the code were JD>>CA> there. I have found that most TCP/IP telecom packages are quite JD>>CA> complex in the way that OBJ files are compiled and then finally JD>>CA> linked to create the executable(s). JD>>CA> For this reason many have embedded subdirectories and include JD>>CA> a `makefile' that either contains multiple definitions for JD>>CA> various compilers or at least can be edited for the compiler on JD>CA> hand at the time. JD>>CA> I was under the impression this was more or less standard JD>>CA> procedure for packages of this complexity. JD>>CA> The fact that archives _do_ exist would indicate that at some JD>>CA> point in time this was considered necessary. Both archives JD>>CA> being in unusual formats is a bit out of the ordinary. The `boo' JD>>CA> format being non-standard and as I've said no apparent decoder JD>>CA> for `boo' anywhere in sight. > JD>>CA> This is not unremarkable in itself IMO. JD>>CA> Anyone care to expand on the reason(s) why a binary archive JD>>CA> cannot be made available for MSKermit source code? JD> I gather that you haven't actually looked at the source files. If JD> you were to do so then a makefile would be evident. It's handy but JD> not necessary. The suite isn't a messy array of this and that in JD> subdirectories and subsidary makefiles; that is not necessary with JD> MS-DOS Kermit. Please read the material and the construction should JD> be clear to you. MASM v6 or later and MS C v6 or later are required JD> to build the program. There is no support for other assemblers or C JD> compilers, so using them would require work on the part of the JD> person using them. Joe D. Ok, subdirectories and makefiles aren't required. That doesn't explain why a normal binary archive is _not_ there and a `boo' archive _is_ there. If `boo' was "something we tried long ago" and it wasn't a total success why not put a _real_ binary archive in it's place? Does your FTP client do `ERASE' and `PUT'? Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 16 20:55:43 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06108 for ; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:55:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA08048 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:33:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Mark Sapiro Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:02:19 -0800 Organization: Not Very Much Message-ID: <38826A1B.C381B8C8@value.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cangel@famvid.com wrote: > The filenames are a bit of a puzzle, the archive formats are an absurdity, > and when I try to politely ask what the reason(s) are for this I get a > reply from Captain Kermit? The 'archive' formats are the way they are because they are not source archives. They are holdovers from a time when it was necessary to bootstrap Kermit onto a machine using an ascii transfer over a (usually) dialed up connection. There was no World Wide Web in those days and ftp was often not available. .boo (bootstrap) files were a way to get a working kermit binary over a comm line. Sometimes the binary was packaged with some documentation and an initialization file in a .zip archive and that was what was .boo encoded. This is the nature of the 'archive' you saw. > I don't recall seeing your name mentioned as one of the programmers nor do > I recall being told there was a moderator of this newsgroup. Are you the > president of the kermit fanclub or just some suckup looking for brownie > points? Is it that important who I am? If you had read this newsgroup for any length of time, you would have seen my name before. As I see it as a reader of this group, everyone was polite and patient with your questions until you started getting abusive. Maybe you didn't get the answers you wanted. Maybe the answerers didn't understand your questions. Maybe it didn't occur to them that you thought some .boo file was a source archive. I tried to be helpful in my previous post. Did you read any of the information I pointed to? Or did you just focus on my implication that you were whining? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 04:55:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA07822 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:55:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA28019 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 04:49:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:20:53 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi everybody, Subsequently to *MY* original post of January 1st, about "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities", i'm posting about the very SAME THING here, *AGAIN*, because i didn't seem to succeed in making myself clearly understood the first time... (Or maybe i was but divergent temptations were at work)! In the past two weeks or so, i couldn't but take note that MY NEED for a `ZMoDem' protocol has been disregarded from the start; at best, various justifications were given instead. As a result of my insistance for the use of a DOS environment, i was even served a monologue on how to $pend/ earn some money. Nobody looked at my `Kermit' macros to find out what's wrong, apparently; nonetheless, there were comments like: don't expect to be able to do "big things" with "tiny programs"... or this very same ~NG~ is about *THE* `Kermit' project (?), euh... In a parallel thread, it's been suggested that a guy just has to ask for help when he needs it and i'm surprized since it happens that's exactly what i tried to do but no one cared to point at a clear solution for MY MACRO PROBLEM... I did receive a comment which was about suggesting the following, instead: he who wishes to have something done is better served when doing it himself and my interrest about ~IP~ port 25, for making my macros better, euh... it lead to me being told about "mail spoofing" but without me never ever having any clue on what's "mail spoofing", actually! 8-o Where i asked about the status of `MS-Kermit' there was silence (until very recently): the only CLEAR STATEMENT i've seen on wether it's in active developpment or not is a very recent one which says that it's still in beta stage but if this place _is_ THE PLACE where to address THE BETA team then one can wonder! 8-o Hummm... Actually, there seems to be at least 2 DOS users in here which started to believe that it may already be too late!!! The `Kermit' source-code probably is *THE ONLY TRUE HELP AVAILABLE*, i don't know a iota on how to use it but i think that me and that other user we felt like we would be better pick up the latest source-files * N O W * (and learn the joys of programming later, as far as i'm concerned)! To _ASK_ for it didn't get *ME* a fast/clear statement: it was only very recently that it finally was written that there's a collection of files (i.e. *NO SINGLE ARCHIVE*); files of which i, personnaly, have no idea which ones are which nor which ones i'm supposed to pick up for when i will be done with finding a programmer, or learning how to do it myself! The other user who COMPLAINED for not having them in one single archive is now at the bench... practically being accused of "whining" around!!! %-o We do get the distinct impression here that the `MS-Kermit' Beta team is out of town... Here's one easy question: is it the case or what?! 8^o N.B.: a short *YES* or *NO* reply will suffice on that one... Euh... %-7 Ha! And... This comment about clearing variables with the "define" function gets me nowhere, really! Like i wrote previously, i bet nobody tried it before i start to see the kind of comments that came later. Frankly, i'm not a bit surprized to see Charles becoming irritated when all he gets is some objections and counter-objections! When he asks for a "magic-name" that will allow him to easily find the source-code archive he gets the answer that *CONTRIBUTION* is the one!... Well, i tried to make a contribution with all my very modest means and capabalities and it seems too easy for some people claiming to earn a fine deal & travel around the world, etc. Euh... Well, it appears some people are so busy with their own thoughts that it's quite too easy for that sort of person to end up disregarding the actual concerns of those users to which they pretend to be replying. Hummm... But, of course, others here will complain and comment that i'm getting over my head... %-7 So... If i may, i'd wish to remind us all here that any short *HELPING* reply is most likely to be appreciated and those which serve less noble agendas often result in never-ending series of arguments... I seen that most comments are kind of short but some of them can be *knowledgeable*; only, i'm afraid that he who happens to be lucky enough to get some of those usefull hints will have to pay a high price (that's THE one thing here which *I* got "tired" of reading about in this very same ~NG~, lately)... Frankly, i'm far from convinced that so-called "whining" & "laming" are only a consequence of the "offender's state of mind" - alone. So... Let's get back to the basics, shall we?! %-( In hope that i still can hope for a direct and HONEST reply, i will now re-introduce myself and ask my questions again. I'm a DOS_InterNet user who spent about the last 2 years lurking/participating to the same-name echo of the `FidoNet' amateur messaging network. Since the last four years or so i looked for DOS INet FreeWare/ShareWare programs in hope that i'd get my hands on some piece of software which can be run even on a * M I N I M U M S E T U P *, meaning: - 8088 4,77 Mhz ~CPU~ - 640 Kb ~RAM~ memory (512 Kb if possible!) - No Hard-Disk - Two 5.25"/360 Kb diskette drives or a single 3.5"/720 Kb unit - A crude 8250 ~UART~ serial-port - A V.42Bis MoDem or better (i tied up an external 56K MoDem to a 8088!) - DOS v3.3 (v3.0 compatibility would be fine but not required) [...] I still have the same three topics in mind today: *1* I am trying to have some working `ZMoDem' and/or `Kermit' file transfer protocols for when accessing ~TelNet~ BBSes. To upgrade the hardware or to switch to protocols like ~FTP~/~HTTP~ *IS NOT* an option. `MS-Kermit v3.16' is the best thing i seen, so far. It can outperform practically any DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~-capable terminal emulator i could find because it INTEGRATES the packet-driver interface, AND the ~TelNet~ protocol as well... He who did write otherwise DIDN'T TRY the DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~ trail BEFORE he did, most obviously, but if i'm wrong then i'm all ears! I wish anyone did and/or knew about something similar to `Kermit'! Most unfortunately, `MS-Kermit' doesn't include a `ZMoDem' file transfer protocol (with control-character escaping & all); making it less than "complete", somewhat. I would welcome postings from people who happen to be doing fine `ZMoDem'/`Kermit' transfers using no more than the minimum setup i described above. I tried a lot of packet drivers and ~TelNet~ "shims" but nothing goes beyond D/L cps rates of a mere 9k6/19K2 bps connection. If only i were able to DownLoad some .ZIP files at over 1K cps or so using a ~TelNet~ "shim" that can be "shared" between `Kermit' and an external `ZMoDem' protocol, euh... i guess that would be good enough... Any comment about the `ZMoDem' protocols of the ~TelNettable~ BBSes being poorly implemented is unwelcomed - this would be perceived as a FUTILE comment at best: i only care about BBSes which DO implement a working `ZMoDem' protocol! Any idea?! I saw fragmented informations about the DOS Novell ~NASI~ v3.03k interface, what about it? :^o I tried all these ~TelNet~ "shims" so far: `INT14', `Net14', `TCPPort', `TelAPI', `TNGlass' (`RLFossil' too but it's not for 8088/ 8086 machines)... Isn't there any MS-DOS `Kermit' update in preparation that will offer `ZMoDem' file transfer capability?! 8^o What about the suggestion from Charles Angelich that `Kermit' should be able to "share" the internal stack/~TelNet~ stuff with an external (`ZMoDem') protocol?! *2* I discovered that i could access my ~SMTP~ server on ~IP~ port #25 but `Kermit' is the only program not to allow me such access if i try! Why? What is "mail spoofing"??? What good does it do to deprive a *HONEST* user from the capabality of using `Kermit's macros for reading & writing ~E-Mails~?... I don't know how bad "mail spoofing" is but why should we care that the recent `MS-Kermit' versions all had to serve the illusions of people which no longer care to be around - i mean, you can be sure of one thing: "spoofers" *WILL* find alternatives anyway!!! Will somebody peek at the source-code and tell me what needs to be changed to re-allow me the use of ~IP~ port #25 again - for MY *HONEST* purpose??? :^o *3* In the same way that i found ~TelNet~ can be made usefull for doing a lot of InterNet stuff, i have written a small set of `Kermit' scripts to read the ~News Groups~ "On-Line". One problem here is that my postings are REFORMATED somehow... I also have trouble with some kind of "memory low" error - AFTER *SUCCESSIVE ACTUATIONS* of the READING macro... More precisely, i get a "TOO MANY ACTIVE TAKE FILES AND MACROS" message; i'm starting to suspect that i must be terminating my macros incorrectly but i fail to see how and now i need a precise, tested, WORKING hint. Would somebody be kind enough to RUN THE FOLLOWING SET OF MACROS and then tell me what i'm doing wrong??? So far, I ALREADY KNOW that some characters pose a problem when found at the end of the line; "dash" is one... The OBVIOUS TEMPORARY remedy is not to use a hyphen at the end of a line but that's not satisfying at all, really!... Moreover, other characters are "forbiden", i'd like to be able to do simple UNFILTERED ~ASCII~ UpLoads! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::[ MSKermit.INI ]: CLS SET FILE TYPE BINARY SET FILE COLLISION RENAME ; or APPEND ;SET FILE COLLISION NO-SUPERSEDE ; is this prone to the Y2K bug? SET PARITY NONE SET BLOCK-CHECK-TYPE 3 SET RECEIVE PACKET-LENGTH 6608 SET WINDOW 5 ; or 32 (max.) SET LOCAL OFF SET PROMPT Kermit> SET TERM ANSI SET TERM CURSOR BLOCK SET DISPLAY REGULAR 8-BIT ; SET ATTRIBUTE DATE OFF ; Ha! Isn't it for a Y2K bug?! ;SET TERM COLOR 0,0,37,44 ; ; TCP/IP - TelNet section ; SET TCP/IP PACKET-DRIVER-INTERRUPT \x60 ; or ODI if `LWP4DOS' instead? ; SET CONTROL UNPREFIXED ALL ; It's to enhance the D/Ls. SET CONTROL PREFIXED 0 1 129 ; ; SET FLOW NONE ; Because TCP/IP is used... ; ; N.B.: ; ; Using ® BOOTP ¯ via `EPPPD' should work but sometimes it doesn't; so, ; i found that a few DOS environement variables can be helpfull here... ; SET TCP/IP ADDRESS \$(MYIP) ; Those DOS environement SET TCP/IP GATEWAY \$(REMIP) ; variables are defined thru SET TCP/IP SUBNETMASK \$(NETMASK) ; IP-UP.BAT (made by `EPPPD'). SET TCP/IP DOMAIN \$(DOMAIN) ; Some more DOS environement SET TCP/IP PRIMARY-NAMESERVER \$(DNS1) ; variables need be defined in SET TCP/IP SECONDARY-NAMESERVER \$(DNS2) ; YOUR own .BAT command-file. ; ; Syntaxt: "News" ; "News comp.protocols.kermit.misc" ; "News demon.ip.support.pc capture.log" ; ; N.B.: a) 4 of the NG macro-keys are located on the NUMERICAL keypad. ; b) Some older hardware may have to use different scan-codes; ; the "SET KEY" command helps finding a scan-code replacement, ; the same may be true of the 4 other macro-key combinations. ; DEF News SET PORT TCP/IP news1.qc.sympatico.ca 119 VT100, - ; ~NNTP~ SET TELNET TERM-TYPE VT100, PAUSE 0, IF FAIL END, - ; server. IF NOT DEF \%1 DEF \%1 demon.ip.support.pc, - ; Default ASSIGN _Group \%1, - ; News Group. :ChkGroup, ECHO News Group: \M(_Group)\10, - ; Validate the ASK _Reply {Is this correct? }, - ; News Group IF EQU {\FSUBSTR(\M(_Reply),1,1)} {Y} GOTO GotGroup, - ; with user's ASK _Group {News Group: }, GOTO ChkGroup, - ; acknowledge. :GotGroup, - ; News Group DEF _LogFile News.CAP, - ; is OKay, set IF DEF \%2 ASSIGN _LogFile \%2, - ; log (capture) PAUSE 1, OUTPUT Group \M(_Group)\13, CONNECT ; file-name. ; SET KEY \330 \KLast ; Press the num. [Minus] key ; Show previous DEF Last IF DEF _Group OUTPUT Last\{13}Head\13, - ; article IF NOT DEF _Group OUTPUT \45, CONNECT ; heading. ; SET KEY \334 \KNext ; Press the num. [Plus] key ; Show next DEF Next IF DEF _Group OUTPUT Next\{13}Head\13, - ; article IF NOT DEF _Group OUTPUT \43, CONNECT ; heading. ; SET KEY \4365 \KBody ; Press the num. [Enter] key ; Read DEF Body IF DEF _Group OUTPUT Body, OUTPUT \13, CONNECT ; the article. ; SET KEY \338 \KGetNews ; Press the num. [Insert] key ; Save article: DEF GetNews IF NOT DEF _Group GOTO SkipSave,- ; the heading LOG SESSION \M(_LogFile) APPEND, - ; and the text OUTPUT Article\13, INPUT 3600 \13\{10}.\13\10, - ; to log-file. CLOSE SESSION, - ; Press a key :SkipSave, IF NOT DEF _Group OUTPUT \338, CONNECT ; to quit. ; SET KEY \2351 \KView ; Press the [Alt]+[V] keys ; Run external DEF View RUN List.COM, CONNECT ; viewer. ; SET KEY \2322 \KEdit ; Press the [Alt]+[E] keys ; Run external DEF Edit RUN Edit.EXE, CONNECT ; editor. ; SET KEY \2329 \KPost ; Press the [Alt]+[P] keys ; Write & post DEF Post IF NOT DEF _EMail GOTO GetAddr, - ; an article. :ChkAddr, ECHO E-Mail address: \M(_EMail)\10, - ; Get E-Mail ASK _Reply {Is this correct? }, - ; address and IF EQU {\FSUBSTR(\M(_Reply),1,1)} {Y} GOTO AddrOK, - ; validate by :GetAddr, ASK _EMail {E-Mail address: }, GOTO ChkAddr, - ; acknowledge. :AddrOK, ASSIGN _Year$ \FSUBSTR(\V(NDate),5,2)- ; Prepare the \FSUBSTR(\V(NDate),7,2)\FSUBSTR(\V(NDate),3,2), - ; header's ASSIGN _NTime$ \FSUBSTR(\V(Time),1,2)- ; data. \FSUBSTR(\V(Time),4,2)\FSUBSTR(\V(Time),7,2), - ; OPEN WRITE EMail.TXT, WRITE FILE From: \M(_EMail), - ; Write the WRITE FILE \13\{10}Date: \V(Date) \V(Time) EST- ; new article's \13\10, WRITE FILE Newsgroups: \M(_Group)\13\10, - ; header and WRITE FILE Subject:\13\10, WRITE FILE Message-ID: - ; footer. <\M(_Year$)\M(_NTime$)\M(_EMail)>\13\10\13\10- ; \13\10.\13\10, CLOSE WRITE, RUN Edit.EXE EMail.TXT, - ; Edit message. OUTPUT Post\13, PAUSE 2, ASCII Email.TXT, CONNECT ; Send message. SET KEY \2334 \KASCII ; Press the [Alt]+[A] keys ; ASCII UpLoad. DEF ASCII IF NOT DEF \%1 GOTO GetFName, - ; Verify that a ASSIGN _FName \%1, GOTO FNameOK, - ; file-name was :ChkFName, ECHO File to send: \M(_FName)\10, - ; given and get ASK _Reply {Is this correct? }, - ; one if it was IF EQU {\FSUBSTR(\M(_Reply),1,1)} {Y} GOTO FNameOK, - ; not... :GetFName, ASK _FName {File to send: }, GOTO ChkFName, - ; Validate with :FNameOK, IF NOT EXIST \M(_FName) GOTO GetFName, - ; acknowledge & OPEN READ \M(_FName), - ; check that it :NewLine, - ; does exists. DEF ChrIndex 1, READ OneLine, IF FAIL GOTO EndType, - ; Set pointers, ASSIGN LineEnd \FLENGTH(\M(OneLine)), - ; get one line. INCREMENT LineEnd, - ;GOTO Scan, - ; <- THIS is a SET OUTPUT PACING 2, OUTPUT \M(OneLine), MSLEEP 10, - ; short & easy OUTPUT \13, MSLEEP 15, XECHO \10, MSLEEP 45, - ; macro - jump IF FAIL STOP 1 * User abort! *, GOTO NewLine, - ; to this line :Scan, - ; <- HERE for SLEEP 0, IF FAIL STOP 1 * User abort! *, - ; sending text IF < \M(ChrIndex) \M(LineEnd) GOTO NewChr, - ; *1* character OUTPUT \13, GOTO NewLine, - ; at a time... :NewChr, - ; Initialize DEF Out$, - ; sub-routine. ASSIGN \%c \FCODE(\FSUBSTR(\M(OneLine),\M(ChrIndex),1)), - ; IF = \%c 32 ASSIGN Out$ OUTPUT { }, - ; Send output IF NOT DEF Out$ ASSIGN Out$ OUTPUT \\{D\%c}, - ; and look for Out$, INCREMENT ChrIndex, GOTO Scan, - ; exceptions... :EndType, - ; Text-file has CLOSE READ ; been sent. ; ; To avoid typing long SET PORT TCP/IP commands, define a macro for each ; host you usually connect to. Type the defined name to connect to it! ; DEF Doc SET PORT TCP/IP bbs.docsplace.org 23 ANSI, - ; ANSI allows SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; some drawing. DEF Juxta SET PORT TCP/IP juxtaposition.dynip.com 23 ANSI, - ; Those two SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; Relayeurs DEF Mysteria SET PORT TCP/IP mysteria.dynip.com 23 ANSI, - ; are carying SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; Canada-Media. DEF Juge SET PORT TCP/IP juge.com 23 ANSI, - ; This place is SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, SET TELNET NEWLINE RAW, - ; excellent for PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; Kermit D/Ls! ; DEF BCN SET PORT TCP/IP bcn.boulder.co.us 23 VT220, - ; Those ® WEB ¯ SET TELNET TERM-TYPE VT220, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; "TelNettable" DEF Sailor SET PORT TCP/IP sailor.lib.md.us 23 VT220, - ; browsers do SET TELNET TERM-TYPE VT220, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ® FTP ¯ also. DEFINE TRFN SET PORT TCP/IP trfn.clpgh.org 23 VT220, - ; All of them SET TELNET TERM-TYPE VT220, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; got `Kermit'. ; DEF Archie SET PORT TCP/IP archie.funet.fi 23 VT100, - ; VT100 may be SET TELNET TERM-TYPE VT100, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; needed here. ; DEF IRC SET PORT TCP/IP 193.49.200.149 6677 VT100, - ; VT100 _IS_ SET TELNET TERM-TYPE VT100, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; needed here. ; DEF AirPower SET PORT TCP/IP airpower.dynip.com 23 ANSI, - ; Now added a SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; WEB BBS... ; DEFINE BBSWorld SET PORT TCP/IP bbs.bbsworld.com 23 ANSI, - ; SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ; DEFINE ConChBBS SET PORT TCP/IP conchbbs.com 23 ANSI, - ; SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ; DEFINE CyberSpace SET PORT TCP/IP cyberspace.org 23 ANSI, - ; SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ; DEFINE LoneStar SET PORT TCP/IP sdf.lonestar.org 23 ANSI, - ; SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ; DEF NightMare SET PORT TCP/IP 206.106.145.5 23 ANSI, - ; A WC-5 BBS... SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, SET BLOCK 2, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ; DEFINE SStar SET PORT TCP/IP sstar.com 23 ANSI, - ; SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ; DEFINE TFhBBS SET PORT TCP/IP tfhbbs.trends.ca 23 ANSI, - ; SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ; DEFINE ToltBBS SET PORT TCP/IP toltbbs.com 23 ANSI, - ; SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ; DEFINE UnNamedBBS SET PORT TCP/IP unnamedbbs.com 23 ANSI, - ; SET TELNET TERM-TYPE ANSI, PAUSE 0, IF SUCCESS CONNECT ; ; SHOW NET ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::[ EOF ]: [...] I thank those who will honestly pay attention while reading this... To others which don't really have anything helpfull to say: please don't! Salutations, Michel Samson From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 10:55:49 2000 Article 10955 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 17 Jan 2000 16:04:14 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 103 Message-ID: <85vehu$55p$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 948125054 5305 128.59.39.2 (17 Jan 2000 16:04:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jan 2000 16:04:14 GMT Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:10955 In article <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net>, wrote: : ... : In the past two weeks or so, i couldn't but take note that MY NEED for : a `ZMoDem' protocol has been disregarded from the start; ... : Again, this is the Kermit Project, not the Zmodem Project. The source for Zmodem is Omen Technogy. If you want Zmodem software for DOS, you can get it from there. If you want Zmodem software with Kermit scripting for DOS, you're in the unenviable position of having to put it together yourself. It's not Omen's job to give you Kermit scripting, and it's not our job to give you Zmodem protocol. : it's been suggested that a guy just has to ask for help when he needs it : Within reason. We support our software for what it was designed to do. : and i'm surprized since it happens that's exactly what i tried to do but : no one cared to point at a clear solution for MY MACRO PROBLEM... : There are real people at work here. For some of us, it is our job. For others, all participation is voluntary, outside of their real jobs. The demands on our time are greater than the time available. We do our best to serve the largest number of people in the time we have. If you have bug reports, we welcome them. If you have questions of reasonable scope, we try to answer them. If you have suggestions, we'll listen to them, but we're not obligated to act on them. If we have a hundred thousand users anxiously waiting for some particular new feature in one of our programs, and one person looking for some other feature, all else being equal, I think the course is clear. I think most readers of and contributors to this newsgroup enjoy a good discussion, but if you're trying to accomplish a change in the status quo, it is usually more effective to: . Be concise -- nobody has time to read a 500-line posting. . Reduce problems to the minimum scenario needed to reproduce them. Nobody is going to wade through a long script hunting for where the problem might be. . Keep your postings focused. If you have several topics, make a separate posting for each one. . Try to maintain a good-humored and civil tone. Your complaint about BBS's not supporting a good, or even functional, Kermit implementation is a familiar one. We have no power over makers of BBS software, or over BBS Sysops. And if you think about it, you can also understand why we might not have much sympathy for a company that sells a product that includes a substandard or nonfunction Kermit implementation -- they get the money, we get the complaints. Nevertheless, we have been doing our best to show the BBS world how they can improve the situation. Read, for example, the article on MS-DOS Kermit and BBS's here: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/newsn6.html#bbs It's as true now as it was when it was written nearly 5 years ago. Send a copy to the Sysops of the BBS's that you use and ask them to follow the directions, and then your troubles are over. : I also have trouble with some kind of "memory : low" error - AFTER *SUCCESSIVE ACTUATIONS* of the READING macro... : More precisely, i get a "TOO MANY ACTIVE TAKE FILES AND MACROS" message... : MS-DOS Kermit and the environment it runs in have memory limitations. Now, I'm all for the idea of keeping old equipment alive and finding new uses for it, but when you consider that you can buy an Internet ready PC with 32 or 64MB of memory today for a fraction of the cost of the original IBM PC, maybe it's time to look at how much your time is worth. Kermit 95, which you can run on Windows 95 and higher, is a "large memory model" version of Kermit that has few noticeable limitations in scripting. It is a better platform for long and complicated scripts because it has more capacity for them, because the underlying hardware and OS support bigger things. ; i'm : starting to suspect that i must be terminating my macros incorrectly but : i fail to see how and now i need a precise, tested, WORKING hint. Would : somebody be kind enough to RUN THE FOLLOWING SET OF MACROS and then tell : me what i'm doing wrong??? So far, I ALREADY KNOW that some characters : pose a problem when found at the end of the line; "dash" is one... The : OBVIOUS TEMPORARY remedy is not to use a hyphen at the end of a line but : that's not satisfying at all, really!... Moreover, other characters are : "forbiden", i'd like to be able to do simple UNFILTERED ~ASCII~ UpLoads! : Here are a couple observations that might be helpful: 1. Dash (hyphen) is the continuation character for commands. It should have no effect when it appears on the end of a line in a data file, such as a line obtained with the READ command. However, there might be a bug in MS-DOS Kermit in this area. We will look into it. 2. The command to use for ASCII uploads is TRANSMIT. If you use that instead of OPEN READ, READ, ..., CLOSE READ, you won't experience any interference with the data. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 05:55:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA11681 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 05:55:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA00586 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 05:50:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: peter eichhorn Subject: Re: Question on lockfiles... Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:18:46 +0100 Organization: (posted via) Mnet Telekommunikations GmbH Message-ID: <3882EC85.5A3E@assyst-intl.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Anders Faltros wrote: > We are using kermit in a lab, and it sometimes happens that someone > terminates kermit in some erroneous way and the lockfile in > remains after the program terminated. > > We have no root access on the machines, so we can't just remove the > lockfiles. > > Is there a way to tell kermit that other users should be able to remove > lockfiles, or is this perhaps a unix-question? Solaris 2.6 is used, ang > changing umask has no effect... This depents on the permission of /var/spool/locks or of your kermit binary. Else you ask one to open /var/spool/locks or to allow the kermit binary to remove the lock file. On a Sun kermit should belong to daemon. An ls -l returns the following: -rwxr-xr-x 1 daemon 1826816 Jan 2 12:28 /usr/local/bin/kermit while the permission of the locks dir looks like: drwxrwsr-x 2 daemon 512 Jan 13 13:01 /var/spool/locks - PeterE From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 09:25:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26054 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:25:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA29583 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:00:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 16 Jan 00 19:12:37 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu > > Ok, subdirectories and makefiles aren't required. That doesn't explain why > a normal binary archive is _not_ there and a `boo' archive _is_ there. If > `boo' was "something we tried long ago" and it wasn't a total success why > not put a _real_ binary archive in it's place? > > Does your FTP client do `ERASE' and `PUT'? > > Charles.Angelich ------------- Charles, Despite all, you have a point, which was unstated but otherwise implied. It is the source files for MSK are difficult to pick out on Columbia's ftp/web site. They are, it's terrible trying to do this. To make things simpler right now please visit netlab1.usu.edu or netlab2.usu.edu, go into the Kermit directory and see a source subdir. Take what's there, which will be the source files for MSK 3.15 (not 3.16). These are my machines. No .boo files involved. Just grab all from source and build the works. To answer another implication, one can't readily convert this material into "libraries" nor pull out big chunks to move into something else (which would be a problem with copyright too). It isn't designed that way. But you can tinker for personal use and make things the way you want. But please do not distribute that without our clearing things first, thanks; it is copyright, not public domain. One can waste a lot of time trying to add non-MASM, non-MS C, making the code much more difficult to maintain for no real gain except individual personal satisfaction. This isn't Unix, it's DOS. And I do not wish to hear one word of complaint on the issue no matter what one's compiler/assembler tools or preferences happen to be. What you seem to be impervious to, despite repeated reminders, is 94 byte Kermit packets is the original and default operating condition. In lieu of negotiations on the wire that is what is used, and it will work where longer packets will not. It's the specification of the protocol. That may not fit your particular tastes, but it is the standard and has been for eons. Also, we are not in the business of beating up on BBS operators, so their customers need to make any noises (with our blessings). Enjoy the reading; it's dense tightly integrated material. No docs are included above, so please visit Columbia's machines for full docs and supporting files (scripts, hints and kinks, etc). Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 10:55:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09907 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:55:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA03700 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 10:32:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "Paul Bigwood" Subject: Bootstrapping CP/M Kermit .... Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:11:09 -0000 Organization: Karibu At Home Message-ID: <948121940.19822.0.nnrp-11.9e983d0c@news.demon.co.uk> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi, Many years ago I remember seeing a program ( 8080 ASM CP/M code) to bootstrap Kermit using DDT under CP/M. I'd like to locate the program again if anyone can recall it or any pointers to suitable source. This machine is an AMSTRAD 8256 with those funny 3" floppy drives. I've got a CP/M operating system disk and SID ( CP/M 3 replacement for DDT.) on the machine. No Basic so the boostrap code in the Kermit manual is no good. I've downloaded the AMSTRAD 8256 Kermit version from Columbia, but of course can't get it into the machine. Any assistance greatly appreciated. Regards Paul Bigwood mailto: paul.bigwood@kbcomms.demon.co.uk. From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 12:55:52 2000 Article 10956 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Bootstrapping CP/M Kermit .... Date: 17 Jan 2000 16:08:25 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 20 Message-ID: <85vepp$5ee$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <948121940.19822.0.nnrp-11.9e983d0c@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 948125305 5582 128.59.39.2 (17 Jan 2000 16:08:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jan 2000 16:08:25 GMT Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:10956 In article <948121940.19822.0.nnrp-11.9e983d0c@news.demon.co.uk>, Paul Bigwood wrote: : Many years ago I remember seeing a program ( 8080 ASM CP/M code) to : bootstrap Kermit using DDT under CP/M. : : I'd like to locate the program again if anyone can recall it or any pointers : to suitable source. This machine is an AMSTRAD : 8256 with those funny 3" floppy drives. I've got a CP/M operating system : disk and SID ( CP/M 3 replacement for DDT.) on the machine. No Basic so the : boostrap code in the Kermit manual is no good. : : I've downloaded the AMSTRAD 8256 Kermit version from Columbia, but of course : can't get it into the machine. : The program you're looking for is in the CP/M Kermit manual: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/cpkerm.doc <-- Plain text ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/a/cpkerm.ps <-- PostScript - Frank Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22020 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:55:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06699 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:34:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 17 Jan 2000 16:34:19 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85vgab$6h8$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu This is simply a brief follow up to address specific technical issues not touched by Frank's reply. -jea In article <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net>, wrote: : Isn't there any MS-DOS `Kermit' update in preparation : that will offer `ZMoDem' file transfer capability?! No. : What about the : suggestion from Charles Angelich that `Kermit' should be able to "share" : the internal stack/~TelNet~ stuff with an external (`ZMoDem') protocol?! How could this possibly work is the single tasking environment of DOS? In 32-bit Windows, Unix, or VMS it is possible to run multiple programs at the same time because there is a task scheduler in the operating system. DOS does not have one. In order for Kermit to be able to share the TCP/IP stack with an external Zmodem process it would be necessary for the Zmodem process to be built with internal support for the same networking features as are built into Kermit. This supposed Zmodem implementation does not exist. Even if you could find a Zmodem implementation that implemented a TCP/IP stack, you would have the problem of how does Kermit transfer the state of the TCP/IP and Telnet state machines from one process to another. The answer is that it is not possible to use an external protocol implementation over TCP/IP socket. The only way that Zmodem could ever be used is if it were built into Kermit. As we have stated previously, no one at the present time is working to implement Zmodem in MS-DOS Kermit. If you want to implement Zmodem in MS-DOS Kermit be our guest. The source code is available. However, as the source code is copyright you must submit your changes back to Columbia University for distribution. You cannot distribute the altered software yourself. : I discovered that i could access my ~SMTP~ server on ~IP~ port #25 but : `Kermit' is the only program not to allow me such access if i try! Why? Spoofing is just what you think it is. It is someone sending mail via an e-mail address which either does not belong to them. The usual purpose is to SPAM or commit fraud. Are there other ways to do this? Yes. But a decision was made a long time ago that MS-DOS Kermit should not be a tool that could be used for this purpose. Therefore, port 25 is blocked. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 14:25:53 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA21805 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13801 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:06:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 17 Jan 2000 19:06:41 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85vp81$df6$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : 2. You can get DSZ from Omen Technology, register it for about : $20, and write a couple of Kermit macros (see below) that will : cause Kermit to call DSZ and send or receive files. : : I have found that the second solution works a lot better than the : first. I haven't had time to try the third yet. : : define RZ run dsz port 1 d rz -y,connect : define SZ ask FILENAME ZMODEM transmit file?,- : run dsz port 1 d sz \m(FILENAME),connect : : set key \316 {\KRZ} ; F2 = ZMODEM receive : set key \323 {\KSZ} ; F9 = ZMODEM send This can only work over a serial port since the DSZ.EXE driver only understands serial connections. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 14:25:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA21807 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA13409 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:00:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: no_spam@adams.patriot.net () Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:39:20 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Frank da Cruz (fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: : In article <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net>, : wrote: : : ... : : In the past two weeks or so, i couldn't but take note that MY NEED for : : a `ZMoDem' protocol has been disregarded from the start; ... : : : Again, this is the Kermit Project, not the Zmodem Project. The source : for Zmodem is Omen Technogy. If you want Zmodem software for DOS, you : can get it from there. If you want to use Zmodem (or "ZMoDem," if you insist) file transfers from within MS-DOS Kermit, there are three ways you can go about it: 1. You can demand that the Kermit developers add about 50K of new code to implement a protocol that (apparently) very few people need in their Kermit software. 2. You can get DSZ from Omen Technology, register it for about $20, and write a couple of Kermit macros (see below) that will cause Kermit to call DSZ and send or receive files. 3. You can get the source code and add it yourself. I have found that the second solution works a lot better than the first. I haven't had time to try the third yet. define RZ run dsz port 1 d rz -y,connect define SZ ask FILENAME ZMODEM transmit file?,- run dsz port 1 d sz \m(FILENAME),connect set key \316 {\KRZ} ; F2 = ZMODEM receive set key \323 {\KSZ} ; F9 = ZMODEM send -- David Winfrey Fine digitizer firmware since 1985 first_initial L last_initial at patriot dot net From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 15:55:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10570 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:55:53 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18647 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:46:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:44:36 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-16 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD> Charles, JD> Despite all, you have a point, which was unstated but otherwise JD> implied. It is the source files for MSK are difficult to pick out on JD> Columbia's ftp/web site. They are, it's terrible trying to do this. JD> To make things simpler right now please visit netlab1.usu.edu or JD> netlab2.usu.edu, go into the Kermit directory and see a source JD> subdir. Take what's there, which will be the source files for MSK 3. JD> 15 (not 3.16). These are my machines. Thank you. I have to ask, and I'm sure I'll have regrets, but hasn't v316 been in `beta' for an exceptionally long time now? JD> No .boo files involved. Just grab all from source and build the JD> works. JD> To answer another implication, one can't readily convert this JD> material into "libraries" nor pull out big chunks to move into JD> something else (which would be a problem with copyright too). It JD> isn't designed that way. But you can tinker for personal use and JD> make things the way you want. Yes, I `tinker' while others program. JD> But please do not distribute that JD> without our clearing things first, thanks; it is copyright, not JD> public domain. I regret the pervasive paranoia that exists today that would justify your concerns but I can assure you that I have had and do not now have any intentions to sell any terminal application derived from earlier works. JD> One can waste a lot of time trying to add non-MASM, JD> non-MS C, making the code much more difficult to maintain for no JD> real gain except individual personal satisfaction. I don't happen to own MSC. Being able to compile the code would no doubt be `personally' more satisfying than _not_ being able to compile it. I would love to own every compiler ever written and just use `make'. Wouldn't you too? JD> This isn't Unix, JD> it's DOS. And I do not wish to hear one word of complaint on the JD> issue no matter what one's compiler/assembler tools or preferences JD> happen to be. My preference is to type `make < makefile', what's yours? JD> What you seem to be impervious to, despite repeated JD> reminders, is 94 byte Kermit packets is the original and default JD> operating condition. In lieu of negotiations on the wire that is JD> what is used, and it will work where longer packets will not. It's JD> the specification of the protocol. That may not fit your particular JD> tastes, but it is the standard and has been for eons. Then you should remove html#7 (if I remember correctly) from your website because it says this 94 byte default was an error and new versions will use longer packets (1020?) as the default size and that those who require the smaller packets will then have to reconfigure the application. Have you read this? JD> Also, we are JD> not in the business of beating up on BBS operators, so their JD> customers need to make any noises (with our blessings). I don't think I advocated any beatings. An admission that you do in fact have an html#7 and that your own website states that the 94 byte packet default has damaged the public perception of what kermit transfers can actually achieve would be nice. Or has it been removed recently? JD> Enjoy the JD> reading; it's dense tightly integrated material. No docs are JD> included above, so please visit Columbia's machines for full docs JD> and supporting files (scripts, hints and kinks, etc). Joe D. Are the `scripts, hints, and kinks' in a particular directory or just wherever they can be found? Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 15:55:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10576 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18938 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:50:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <4bLg4.6414$NU6.261988@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:44:49 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-17 not-2-disclose@the.net said: MS> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc --8<--cut MS> In the past two weeks or so, i couldn't but take note that MY NEED MS> for a `ZMoDem' protocol has been disregarded from the start; at MS> best, various justifications were given instead. I too could use the zmodem alternative for BBS that only have 94 byte crippled kermit implementations and have said this several times. As you have said, it's a `no starter' here UNLESS you use W95. For some reason having W95 makes zmodem suddenly very logical and necessary to have as an option. Strange how that works since W95 users have a multitude of choices for other terminal apps with a working zmodem and 16 bit DOS users have ZERO. I marvel at the logic. MS> As a result of my MS> insistance for the use of a DOS environment, i was even served a MS> monologue on how to $pend/ earn some money. It's an attempt to make you go away. If you're not running the latest and greatest you are not `worthy'. MS> Nobody looked at my MS> `Kermit' macros to find out what's wrong, apparently; nonetheless, MS> there were comments like: don't expect to be able to do "big MS> things" with "tiny programs"... or this very same ~NG~ is about MS> *THE* `Kermit' project (?), euh... In a parallel thread, it's been MS> suggested that a guy just has to ask for help when he needs it and MS> i'm surprized since it happens that's exactly what i tried to do MS> but no one cared to point at a clear solution for MY MACRO PROBLEM.. Sorry. I did intend to look into that but to be honest I lost the msg I had saved with your macros in it. When I logged on and tried to get them again my terminal app grunged this entire newsgroup file. Now that I see you've posted them again maybe _this_ time I won't lose them. MS> Where i asked about the status of MS> `MS-Kermit' there was silence (until very recently): the only CLEAR MS> STATEMENT i've seen on wether it's in active developpment or not is MS> a very recent one which says that it's still in beta stage but if MS> this place _is_ THE PLACE where to address THE BETA team then one MS> can wonder! 8-o Hummm... Actually, there seems to be at least 2 MS> DOS users in here which started to believe that it may already be MS> too late!!! The v316 has been in `beta' longer than most software even lasts from start to finish. --8<--cut MS> i guess that would be good enough... Any comment about the MS> `ZMoDem' protocols of the ~TelNettable~ BBSes being poorly MS> implemented is unwelcomed - this would be perceived as a FUTILE MS> comment at best: i only care about BBSes which DO implement a MS> working `ZMoDem' protocol! I was invited by Chuck Forsberg to use his site for testing and even when both sides (sender and receiver) are Omen Tech I can't get that TCPPORT to go beyond 700cps. It's very frustrating. --8<--cut MS> What is "mail spoofing"??? What good does it do to deprive a MS> *HONEST* user from the capabality of using `Kermit's macros for MS> reading & writing ~E-Mails~?... I don't know how bad "mail MS> spoofing" is but why should we care that the recent `MS-Kermit' MS> versions all had to serve the illusions of people which no longer MS> care to be around - i mean, you can be sure of one thing: MS> "spoofers" *WILL* find alternatives anyway!!! Will somebody peek MS> at the source-code and tell me what needs to be changed to re-allow MS> me the use of ~IP~ port #25 again - for MY *HONEST* purpose??? :^o If we can't get a simple answer to `mail spoofing' here I can ask on FIDO. I honestly don't know what it is either. 8( MS> *3* MS> In the same way that i found ~TelNet~ can be made usefull for doing MS> a lot of InterNet stuff, i have written a small set of `Kermit' MS> scripts to read the ~News Groups~ "On-Line". Fascinating idea and one I would never have thought of. 9) Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 15:55:55 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA10579 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA18934 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:50:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <0bLg4.6413$NU6.261988@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:44:44 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-16 msapiro@value.net said: MS> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc MS> cangel@famvid.com wrote: MS> > The filenames are a bit of a puzzle, the archive formats are an MS> >absurdity, and when I try to politely ask what the reason(s) are MS> >for this I get a reply from Captain Kermit? MS> The 'archive' formats are the way they are because they are not MS> source archives. They are holdovers from a time when it was MS> necessary to bootstrap Kermit onto a machine using an ascii MS> transfer over a (usually) dialed up connection. There was no World MS> Wide Web in those days and ftp was often not available. Interesting but that does not explain the NONEXISTENT binary archives does it? MS> ..boo (bootstrap) files were a way to get a working kermit binary MS> over a comm line. Sometimes the binary was packaged with some MS> documentation and an initialization file in a .zip archive and that MS> was what was .boo encoded. This is the nature of the 'archive' you MS> saw. Again interesting but is it a directory on an FTP server or a museum? MS> > I don't recall seeing your name mentioned as one of the MS> >programmers nor do I recall being told there was a moderator of MS> >this newsgroup. Are you the president of the kermit fanclub or MS> >just some suckup looking for brownie points? MS> Is it that important who I am? If you intend to take a `holier than thou' attitude yes it is important. I don't want to offend a minor god. MS> If you had read this newsgroup for MS> any length of time, you would have seen my name before. As I see MS> it as a reader of this group, everyone was polite and patient with MS> your questions until you started getting abusive. Which of my questions did you find abusive, or was it that I have questions that you find abusive? MS> Maybe you didn't MS> get the answers you wanted. Maybe the answerers didn't understand MS> your questions. Maybe it didn't occur to them that you thought MS> some .boo file was a source archive. Maybe the moon is made of milk. Maybe there is a Santa Claus. I made it perfectly clear that I was interested in examining the source code for MSKermit (clear to anyone but a total idiot). Frank D. Cruz is listed as one of the authors of TCPPORT.C and Columbia University claims copyright on portions of the code yet I am told they never worked together and nothing from this project found it's way back into WATTCP. Well guess what, somebody is zooming and it's not me. This is at the top of the file TCPPORT.C in the WATTCP archived source code. /* * TCPPORT - make tcp connections from virtual serial ports * * Copyright (C) 1989, 1990, 1991, University of Waterloo * Portions Copyright (C) 1991, Trustees of Columbia University * in the City of New York. Permission is granted to any * individual or institution to use, copy, or redistribute * this software as long as it is not sold for profit, provided * this copyright notice is retained. * * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, * but without any warranty; without even the implied warranty of * merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. * * Authors: * Erick Engelke (erick@development.watstar.uwaterloo.ca), * Engineering Computing, University of Waterloo. * Bruce Campbell (bruce@development.watstar.uwaterloo.ca), * Engineering Computing, University of Waterloo * Frank da Cruz (fdc@columbia.edu, FDCCU@CUVMA.BITNET), * Columbia University Center for Computing Activities. * * 1.00 - May 13, 1991 : E. Engelke - stole negotiations from Frank's * & F. Da Cruz telnet portion of C-KERMIT * 0.04 - May 7, 1991 : E. Engelke - got echo/no echo working * 0.03 - Apr 24, 1991 : E. Engelke - hacked terminal negotiation * 0.02 - Mar 24, 1991 : E. Engelke - convert \r to \n for UNIX compatibility * 0.01 - Feb , 1991 : E. Engelke - converted Bruce's program to TCP * - 1.00 - : B. Campbell- created original program * So now jump in here and tell me again how nothing from this project found it's way back into WATTCP. Ya' right. MS> I tried to be helpful in my MS> previous post. Did you read any of the information I pointed to? MS> Or did you just focus on my implication that you were whining? I read the post. Did you read my post or just focus on the fact that you think you are `Captain Kermit' or was it the suggestion that you are a suckup looking for brownie points that bothers you? The three against one wasn't good enough for a `me too' like you huh? Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 16:25:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15703 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:25:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA19676 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:08:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 17 Jan 2000 20:59:59 GMT Organization: Universitaet Kaiserslautern Message-ID: <85vvsf$jml$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cangel@famvid.com writes: >On 1900-01-14 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: >JD> Please read what we said. >I did read what "we" said. *Sigh*. You didn't. Since 'we' (the newsgroup, exclusive me, since I didn't post at all) told you this. Most certainly Joe D. and Frank did. Ah, and 'we' (the group, including me, since I read it as well) understood pretty well what has been said. So you didn't pay attention. [...] >Possibly a more specific answer to the question would aid in my being able to >understand the answer. "Parted company", "hardly", and "fork in the road" are >poetic but not in any way specific. In a technical discussion they are no >answer at all. Oh - a code fork is a pretty well understood term in the open (and not so open) source world. At a time, the Kermit Project got permission to use the WatTCP code. They (essentially Joe Doupnik) continued to enhance and develop it on their own. Where's the problem ? Regards Christoph Weber-Fahr -- Christoph Weber-Fahr | E-Mail: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de -------------------------- My personal opinion only --------------------- From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 16:25:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15705 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:25:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA19072 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:55:49 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 17 Jan 2000 20:55:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <85vvkk$iju$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : ... : On 1900-01-16 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: : JD> What you seem to be impervious to, despite repeated : JD> reminders, is 94 byte Kermit packets is the original and default : JD> operating condition. In lieu of negotiations on the wire that is : JD> what is used, and it will work where longer packets will not. It's : JD> the specification of the protocol. That may not fit your particular : JD> tastes, but it is the standard and has been for eons. : : Then you should remove html#7 (if I remember correctly) from your website : because it says this 94 byte default was an error and new versions will : use longer packets (1020?) as the default size and that those who require : the smaller packets will then have to reconfigure the application. Have : you read this? : What is html#7? Please use URLs so we know which page you mean. 94-byte packets were never a mistake. They were appropriate at the time (early 1980s) and still work. Longer packets are more appropriate now, but they still don't always work. : Are the `scripts, hints, and kinks' in a particular directory or just : wherever they can be found? : MS-DOS Kermit has a manual: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/manuals.html It also comes with lots of text files including KERMIT.BWR (the "hints and tips and 'watch out'" file), NETWORKS\SETUP.DOC, which goes into great detail about setting up a network connection. These files are on your own PC's disk if you installed from the main MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 ZIP file (versions 3.15 and 3.15 are "overlays" over the 3.14 distribution, as explained on the Web page). By the way, you can now pick up the source files for MS-DOS Kermit in convenient ZIP'd format at: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/msk315src.zip - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 16:55:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22988 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21138 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:37:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 17 Jan 2000 21:37:49 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86023d$kkf$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <4bLg4.6414$NU6.261988@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, wrote: : I too could use the zmodem alternative for BBS that only have 94 byte : crippled kermit implementations and have said this several times. As : you have said, it's a `no starter' here UNLESS you use W95. For some : reason having W95 makes zmodem suddenly very logical and necessary to : have as an option. Strange how that works since W95 users have a : multitude of choices for other terminal apps with a working zmodem : and 16 bit DOS users have ZERO. I marvel at the logic. As stated in previous responses to this thread the Zmodem library used in Kermit 95 was developed by a Kermit 95 user and donated to The Kermit Project. The library is only available for Kermit 95 because we are not allowed to redistribute the source code. Since C-Kermit and MS-DOS Kermit are source code distributions the Zmodem library cannot be integrated into those products. The solution to this situation is very simple. Write your own Zmodem library to integrate with MS-DOS Kermit that does not violate the copyright of Omen Technologies and donate it to the Kermit Project. Professor Doupnik has donated a large part of his last two decades developing and supporting MS-DOS Kermit. I find it incredible that anyone would take such a thankless position. On one had you say that MS-DOS Kermit is this incredible piece of software that is more than three times faster than anything else you have seen. But then you complain that it doesn't do everything that you want it to do. I have to tell you that one of the benefits of being a volunteer software developer is that you get to choose what you want to work on. If Zmodem was something that Professor Doupnik wanted to work on I am sure he would do a fantastic job. But as a academic his primary motivation is to do things that haven't been done before or that solve problems that he is experiencing. : The v316 has been in `beta' longer than most software even lasts from : start to finish. The definition of 'beta' is "a test build that is publicly available to end users". It is not an indication that a release is imminent. It is simply a way of Professor being supportive of the users of MS-DOS Kermit by fixing bugs that have been reported. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 16:55:54 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA22990 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:55:54 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA21794 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:52:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 17 Jan 2000 21:38:05 GMT Organization: Universitaet Kaiserslautern Message-ID: <86023t$na8$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi, not-2-disclose@the.net writes: >Subsequently to *MY* original post of January 1st, about "MS-DOS Kermit, >more capabalities", i'm posting about the very SAME THING here, *AGAIN*, >because i didn't seem to succeed in making myself clearly understood the >first time... (Or maybe i was but divergent temptations were at work)! Hm.... Maybe, Just Maybe... you didn't like the answers ? I thinkk there were. [...] >We do get the distinct impression here that the `MS-Kermit' Beta team is >out of town... Here's one easy question: is it the case or what?! 8^o >N.B.: a short *YES* or *NO* reply will suffice on that one... Euh... Give the abundance of Joe Doupnik's postings here (who essentially _is_ the MSKermit Team) I fail to see your point. >This comment about clearing variables [...] Just separate your postings. Focus on one problem per posting. Additional stuff tends to get lost in the debate. Ah.. and structure your posting. Think of the newsgroup as an audience. >In hope that i still can hope for a direct and HONEST reply, i will now >re-introduce myself and ask my questions again. I'm a DOS_InterNet user >who spent about the last 2 years lurking/participating to the same-name >echo of the `FidoNet' amateur messaging network. Yo. >Since the last four years or so i looked for DOS INet FreeWare/ShareWare >programs in hope that i'd get my hands on some piece of software which >can be run even on a * M I N I M U M S E T U P *, meaning: >- 8088 4,77 Mhz ~CPU~ >- 640 Kb ~RAM~ memory (512 Kb if possible!) >- No Hard-Disk >- Two 5.25"/360 Kb diskette drives or a single 3.5"/720 Kb unit >- A crude 8250 ~UART~ serial-port >- A V.42Bis MoDem or better (i tied up an external 56K MoDem to a 8088!) >- DOS v3.3 (v3.0 compatibility would be fine but not required) >[...] This is understandable and a certainly fascinating hobby. But please understand why people write software like this... because they have a need for it. Given that you can get 386 and lowly 486 machines for free all over the place these days, most people have moved at least there. And there's Linux. And FreeBSD. And OS/2. Whatever. So you are essentially forced to rely on what was there when DOS ruled the day. And in these days most folks didn't have ppp account. Actually, PPP surfaced long after DOS already ruled the world. Back then, in the days when few selected people had dialup internet access, mostly via their University or the two or three commercial internet providers around (netcom, uunet), everybody was having shell accounts he used like a normal BBS. For these, there are loads of Software. My personal favourite is Stratory Systems (sp?) Terminate. But there are piles of others. You just can't get PPP. for PPP, you should look at the usual TCPIP packages. Most notably Novell's Lan Workplace (is that still for sale) or FTP's (who owns them now ?) PC/TCP. Maybe you can find a used copy somewhere. But of course you don't find ZModem there. Back then, it would have been considered strange to access a BBS via dialup PPP. >I still have the same three topics in mind today: >*1* >I am trying to have some working `ZMoDem' and/or `Kermit' file transfer >protocols for when accessing ~TelNet~ BBSes. Three words: a MMU (which lets you run Linux or FreeBSD) and is part of the intel architecture from '386 on minicom rz/sz >*2* >I discovered that i could access my ~SMTP~ server on ~IP~ port #25 but >`Kermit' is the only program not to allow me such access if i try! Why? Of course you have a point here. MSkermit's (or Joe's) refusal to unblock them has - as far as I can see - not succeeded to free the world from fake mail. Around '92 or so, I tried to discuss the thing with him. But I quickly learned that it made his life easier to block these ports - and so he did. As he wrote this thing, who was I to determine otherwise ? Who are you ? You can read mail, e.g.,with David Harris' Pegasus Mail for DOS just fine. It even has a POP3 module somewhere on the net. You are not supposed to telnet to port 25. Your Mail Software is. [...a few imprsessive Examples of kermit script usage deleted...] If you absolutely must read news under DOS, just go searching for Peter Tattam's Trumpet Newsreader. There used to be a DOS version. Regards Christoph Weber-Fahr -- Christoph Weber-Fahr | E-Mail: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de -------------------------- My personal opinion only --------------------- From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 18:25:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11523 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25156 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:02:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Clarence Dold Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 17 Jan 2000 22:50:34 GMT Organization: a2i network Message-ID: <8606bq$iqv$1@samba.rahul.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Frank da Cruz wrote: : By the way, you can now pick up the source files for MS-DOS Kermit in : convenient ZIP'd format at: : ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/msk315src.zip Or maybe: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/archives/msk315src.zip Source ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/archives/msk315.zip Object -- --- Clarence A Dold - dold@email.rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 18:25:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11525 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25455 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:07:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: vjp2@tam.dorsai.org (Vasos Panagiotopoulos +1-917-287-8087 Bioengineer-Financier) Subject: Re: Kermit 314 - 315 date {bug} Date: 17 Jan 2000 22:00:29 GMT Organization: Samani Marions Panyaught NYC-11357-3436-287-USA Message-ID: <8603dt2h7c@enews1.newsguy.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu What I get is files with year=2000 on Unix (Dorsai runs BASH) being stored on DOS with date=1980. Not as much a problem as a nuisance. - = - Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bioengineer-Financier, NYC BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian http://WWW.Dorsai.Org/~vjp2 vjp2@{MCIMail.Com|CompuServe.Com|Dorsai.Org} ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}--- [DQ2K: Make the Murky Clown Frown!] From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 18:25:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA11528 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA25888 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:16:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 00 15:32:04 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu > If you absolutely must read news under DOS, just go searching for Peter > Tattam's Trumpet Newsreader. There used to be a DOS version. > > Regards > > Christoph Weber-Fahr ---------- Thank you Christoph for the clear responses. That port 25 thing is still a problem when folks use Telnet to create fake mail. Goodness knows, there's too much "real" spam, but I didn't want to add to the burden. So far I can't see a practical need to open it up on MSK, even though it is possible to write scripts which mimic what an smtp exchange would do (but golly, why bother when there are full smtp clients available). I run into the blockage while teaching classes and we are dealing with smtp details; it would be convenient for us, but we can use other methods. I'm living with my own decisions. Sometimes the MSK engineering team is out of town, or out to lunch, those being normal activities, but I do try to listen and often agree. Zmodem isn't in the plans for MSK, sorry. Christoph has carefully pointed out how to run Zmodem while within Kermit and that's great. I hope that in this particular thread the MSK source code is now in hand and being scrutinized for local embellishment. That's one reason we publish it. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 18:55:55 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18930 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:55:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26466 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:28:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: Kermit 314 - 315 date {bug} Date: 17 Jan 2000 23:28:33 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <8608j1$pqv$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <8603dt2h7c@enews1.newsguy.com>, Vasos Panagiotopoulos +1-917-287-8087 Bioengineer-Financier wrote: : : What I get is files with year=2000 on : Unix (Dorsai runs BASH) being stored : on DOS with date=1980. : : Not as much a problem as a nuisance. I just transfered several files with dates of today from Unix running C-Kermit 7.0 to MS-DOS Kermit 3.15. The dates transfer correctly. Are you sure your version of DOS can handle dates greater than 2000? Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 19:25:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24210 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA28343 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:06:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement Date: 18 Jan 2000 00:06:57 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <860ar1$rlj$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Today let's look at the common situation in which files must be moved from one computer to another for processing on a regular basis. For example, daily business receipts are sent from a branch office or franchise to company headquarters, or medical or pharmaceutical insurance claims from a doctor's office, hospital, or pharmacy to a claims clearinghouse. Each file contains a series of financial transactions, so we need to ensure that each transaction occurs once and only once, and when it occurs, it occurs completely and correctly. Of course other applications can be imagined too. Let's call the two parties "Branch" and "Headquarters" (HQ). In a typical scenario, Branch collects files (e.g. from each operator station) into a directory and then transmits them every evening to HQ. The connection can be made by traditional (non-PPP) dialup or by network. Of course Kermit is equally suited to both. (That's a strong point of Kermit, remember? For example, if you normally use a network connection but the net is broken, you can fall back up old-fashioned dialup using the same script if it is well-designed.) The procedures for making the connection are well documented in the Kermit manuals. Let's assume we have a connection already, we have already authenticated or logged in, and there is a Kermit server on the far end. Let's also assume that our current directory on the local computer contains the files we need to send, and there are many of them. Of course we can just tell the local Kermit to "SEND *.*" or whatever, but what happens if the connection breaks and we have to start again? We don't want HQ to receive multiple copies of the same transaction. (Obviously there should be other safeguards but we won't discuss them here.) There are several approaches to this problem, but the best one is Kermit's new "atomic file movement" feature. In this case "atomic" is used in the computer-science sense, not the physics one :-) The command is simple: SEND /DELETE *.* This means, send all the files whose names match "*.*" (or any other pattern or filename) and delete each one as soon as, and only if, it was sent successfully (MOVE is a synonym for SEND /DELETE). Alternatively, you can use: SEND /MOVE-TO:xxxx *.* which, instead of deleting each successfully sent file, moves it to the directory named xxxx. (A third choice, SEND /RENAME-TO:, is described in the update notes.) Now if the connection is lost, you can make a new connection and give the same SEND /DELETE or SEND /MOVE-TO command again, and it sends only the files that were not already sent successfully, because the ones that were are gone. Meanwhile, back at Headquarters we encounter the classic conundrum: how to know when a file has been completely uploaded? Let's suppose some process at HQ (besides Kermit) waits for new files to appear in the upload directory. Well, each file "appears" as soon as it is opened, but it might be open for some time while the Kermit receiver is writing new material to it (the same is true, of course, for FTP). We don't want to start processing it until it has arrived completely, but we also don't want to wait forever. Here again, atomic file movement is the answer. If the Kermit server at HQ is given the command: SET RECEIVE MOVE-TO xxxx (where xxxx is the name of a directory), this tells it to move each received file to the specified directory after, and only if, it is received successfully. So the script to start up the server at HQ might look like this: cd /incoming/tmp/ set receive move-to /incoming/ready/ server exit The underlying API is chosen to be atomic; for example the UNIX rename() system call is used (or link() when rename() is not available); the instant the file appears in the /incoming/ready/ directory, it's ready to use and not in the middle of being copied. And it won't come back to haunt you again after processing, because the Branch won't upload it again. As for making sure the files get through despite repeated disconnections, see the 'deliver' script on page 453 of "Using C-Kermit" or in the C-Kermit script library: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/scripts/ckermit/deliver For details about atomic file movement, see Sections 4.0.8, 4.1.3, 4.7 of the ckermit2.txt file. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 19:55:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01165 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:55:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA29292 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:29:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:24:24 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-17 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA>In article , JA> wrote: JA> : 2. You can get DSZ from Omen Technology, register it for JA> about : $20, and write a couple of Kermit macros (see JA> below) that will : cause Kermit to call DSZ and send or JA> receive files. --8<--cut FDSZ is also from Omen Tech but can do `int 14h' connects using a fossil driver. JA> This can only work over a serial port since the DSZ.EXE JA> driver only understands serial connections. If MSKermit would do an `int 14h' vector reset to point within itself to it's send_char() and receive_char() routines then FDSZ could do this using MSKermit's TCP/IP stack. The macros would be more or less the same. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 19:55:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01167 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00311 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:46:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <0pOg4.6714$NU6.285660@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:24:28 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-17 no_spam@adams.patriot.net() said: AD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc AD> Frank da Cruz (fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: AD> In article <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net>, AD> wrote: N2> In the past two weeks or so, i couldn't but take note that N2> MY NEED for a `ZMoDem' protocol has been disregarded from N2> the start; ... AD> Again, this is the Kermit Project, not the Zmodem Project. AD> The source for Zmodem is Omen Technogy. If you want Zmodem AD> software for DOS, you can get it from there. Unless you want to use Windows. In that case it _is_ the `Zmodem Project' after all!!! AD> If you want to use Zmodem (or "ZMoDem," if you insist) file AD> transfers from within MS-DOS Kermit, there are three ways AD> you can go about it: AD> 1. You can demand that the Kermit developers add about 50K AD> of new code to implement a protocol that (apparently) very AD> few people need in their Kermit software. To add a vector reset of `int 14h' wouldn't add even 2k to the code. When you say "very few people need" I'm guessing you run W9x and therefore do have the zmodem in _your_ `Kermit / Zmodem Project' version. If you had no access to a working zmodem you'd sing a different tune me thinks. AD> 2. You can get DSZ from Omen Technology, register it for AD> about $20, and write a couple of Kermit macros (see below) AD> that will cause Kermit to call DSZ and send or receive AD> files. The need is to use this over telnet. DSZ does not _do_ telnet. AD> 3. You can get the source code and add it yourself. Or buy a new computer with Windows installed and use the `Kermit / Zmodem Project' version. We know. AD> I have found that the second solution works a lot better AD> than the first. I haven't had time to try the third yet. When you get #3 working, please do let us know? Anyone with the proper version of MSC and MASM who is familiar with the source code could have the `int 14h' vector reset working in an afternoon (if you include time to do a few compiles, testing, and compressing it into a BINARY archive to upload to WERMIT). For DOS programmers this is not rocket science its standard operating procedure. BTW: I'm not sure using the 'd' switch for DSZ when doing a dialup is a good idea. It tells DSZ to ignore carrier detection which means it could lockup on you if carrier drops. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 19:55:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01170 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00227 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:44:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:24:14 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-17 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: FD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc FD> In article <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net>, FD> wrote: FD> In the past two weeks or so, i couldn't but take note that MY FD> NEED for a `ZMoDem' protocol has been disregarded from the start; FD> Again, this is the Kermit Project, not the Zmodem Project. The FD> source for Zmodem is Omen Technogy. If you want Zmodem software FD> for DOS, you can get it from there. FD> If you want Zmodem software with Kermit scripting for DOS, you're FD> in the unenviable position of having to put it together yourself. FD> It's not Omen's job to give you Kermit scripting, and it's not our FD> job to give you Zmodem protocol. You keep saying this and yet zmodem found it's way into the WIN95 Kermit. Are you not aware that zmodem is in the WIN95 Kermit? If it doesn't belong in there someone should remove it. --8<--cut FD> There are real people at work here. For some of us, it is our job. FD> For others, all participation is voluntary, outside of their real FD> jobs. The demands on our time are greater than the time available. FD> We do our best to serve the largest number of people in the time we FD> have. Not quite sure what "real people" is supposed to mean in this context. It reads as though you left out the word "important". To say "We're really busy right now and are not able to get to anything new at this time." would be a nicer way to say the same thing IMO. FD> If you have bug reports, we welcome them. If you have questions of FD> reasonable scope, we try to answer them. If you have suggestions, FD> we'll listen to them, but we're not obligated to act on them. If we FD> have a hundred thousand users anxiously waiting for some particular FD> new feature in one of our programs, and one person looking for some FD> other feature, all else being equal, I think the course is clear. Could you give an example of this new feature you are all working on that 100,000 users are anxiously waiting for? --8<--cut FD> Nobody is going to wade through a long script hunting for where FD> the problem might be. "Nobody" is a bit general. I intend to try the script (it takes only 10 or 15 minutes) and see what happens. --8<--cut FD> Nevertheless, we have been doing our best to show the BBS world how FD> they can improve the situation. Read, for example, the article on FD> MS-DOS Kermit and BBS's here: FD> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/newsn6.html#bbs I have also mentioned the page on your website admitting that the misunderstanding about the 94 byte packets was caused by using it as the default setting for kermit for so many years. To be honest you are the people that caused the problem but won't admit it. --8<--cut FD> MS-DOS Kermit and the environment it runs in have memory FD> limitations. Now, I'm all for the idea of keeping old equipment FD> alive and finding new uses for it, but when you consider that you FD> can buy an Internet ready PC with 32 or 64MB of memory today for a FD> fraction of the cost of the original IBM PC, maybe it's time to FD> look at how much your time is worth. There are many people who restore old automobiles, others restore old furniture. Do you think they should buy only `new'? For some this is a hobby and doing it with the original equipment or close to the original is a challenge. It's not always about money. Any fool can buy his way onto the Internet. FD> Kermit 95, which you can run FD> on Windows 95 and higher, is a "large memory model" version of FD> Kermit that has few noticeable limitations in scripting. It is a FD> better platform for long and complicated scripts because it has FD> more capacity for them, because the underlying hardware and OS FD> support bigger things. Everybody sells Microsoft Windows. Truth is with a fast enough CPU and enough memory any piece of crap software looks good. Reminds me of the aerospace enigneering principle "With a big enough engine anything will fly". My interest in MSKermit is precisely that it does run on `legacy' hardware. Not just that it executes - it works very effectively and efficiently with a clean and useful user interface. The macro language is a `grabber' for those of us accustom to having one in our other terminal software. If Kermit required massive amounts of memory and CPU cycles I would have ignored it as just more `bloatware'. --8<--cut FD> Here are a couple observations that might be helpful: FD> 2. The command to use for ASCII uploads is TRANSMIT. If you use FD> that instead of OPEN READ, READ, ..., CLOSE READ, you won't FD> experience any interference with the data. I've used the TRANSMIT a few times. The entire screen goes haywire and looks like a runaway ASM program (core dump?) but when it finally stops the data has been transmitted. A bit unnevering to watch if you've had many ASM programs try trashing your hard drive on you. It appears to be functional but could use a better display format that doesn't scare the heck out of you when you do use it IMO. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 19:55:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA01173 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:55:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA29286 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:28:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:24:22 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-17 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA>This is simply a brief follow up to address specific technical JA>issues not touched by Frank's reply. -jea JA>In article <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net>, JA> wrote: N2> Isn't there any MS-DOS `Kermit' update in preparation that N2> will offer `ZMoDem' file transfer capability?! JA> No. N2> What about the suggestion from Charles Angelich that N2> `Kermit' should be able to "share" : the internal N2> stack/~TelNet~ stuff with an external (`ZMoDem') protocol?! JA> How could this possibly work is the single tasking JA> environment of DOS? JA> In 32-bit Windows, Unix, or VMS it is possible to run JA> multiple programs at the same time because there is a task JA> scheduler in the operating system. DOS does not have one. First let me use the disclaimer that no one person can be everywhere on the Internet nor can they sit at a variety of computer terminals and be an expert on all of them. Having said that ... I was not recommending a multitasking function but since you brought multitasking into the conversation ... The multitasking is written into the application but DOS using DoubleDos, Desqview, and others has multitasked for over a decade. If anyone at Columbia U. would be interested there are at least two or three DOS telnet apps that do indeed multitask. DOSLynx does this albeit not really well. NCSA telnet even mentions in the docs that although it can maintain multiple windows (connects) it is not adviseable to FTP in one and be using the others. YAN, a KA9Q variant, can FTP and continue to use it's other windows (connections) with little difficulty even on an XT PC. I've got it here and have done it while using EPPPD.EXE to emulate an ethernet card and function as the packet driver for YAN. If you do take time to install YAN you might also want to take a look at it's handling of HTML and FORMS. Quite impressive for a 16 bit app on an XT (if you _have_ an XT to try this on). 8) JA> In order for Kermit to be able to share the TCP/IP stack JA> with an external Zmodem process it would be necessary for JA> the Zmodem process to be built with internal support for JA> the same networking features as are built into Kermit. This JA> supposed Zmodem implementation does not exist. Yes, actually it has been around for quite a few years now but not in one application - two are required. FDSZ for the zmodem and TCPPORT for the TCPIP stack. FDSZ.EXE is scattered on many FTP servers in the USA and in Europe. I've checked using ARCHIE servers. The 'F' is for `fossil' and means it hooks the `int 14h' vector of DOS that has been designated as the telecom vector since before DOS v3.x. TCPPORT from the WATTCP package can supply the TCP/IP and the `int 14h' vector that connects FDSZ. These two apps have been in existence for about 8 years or more. Seems no one realized they could be combined? JA> Even if you could find a Zmodem implementation that JA> implemented a TCP/IP stack, you would have the problem of JA> how does Kermit transfer the state of the TCP/IP and Telnet JA> state machines from one process to another. I suggested an `int 14h' vector reset to point to the TCP/IP routines in MSKermit. JA> The answer is that it is not possible to use an external JA> protocol implementation over TCP/IP socket. The only way JA> that Zmodem could ever be used is if it were built into JA> Kermit. The TCPPORT.EXE from the WATTCP package can do exactly what you think cannot be done if you use FDSZ.EXE from Omen Tech. TCPPORT connects to the 0x60 hook of EPPPD, supplies the TCP/IP stack, and resets the `int 14h' vector to point to TCPPORT. FDSZ thinks it's talking to DOS. If MSKermit did a vector reset of `int 14h' to point to it's TCP/IP send_char(), receive_char() and returned dummy `OK' data to other requests (in the AX register) then FDSZ would happily load and execute thinking it was sending / receiving through the original DOS vector. The code to accomplish this is relatively small (30 lines of code or less?). If you take a look at TCPPORT.C in the WATTCP package (it's quite small) and look near the end of the source code you will see the required `hooks' and dummy replies required to make FDSZ or other apps think they are hooked into DOS. Short, simple, no big deal really. This works for downloading, I do it every day. Uploading is a bit trickier hence my original questions regarding the WATTCP package. I need to make some adjustments in the TCPPORT code to understand XON/XOFF so that FDSZ can upload (FDSZ has no `handshake' command as DSZ does). I thought that while I am doing this I might improve the speed and stability by comparing the functions in MSKermit send / receive to those in TCPPORT (since MSK is some order of magnitude faster and smoother in operation). JA> As we have stated previously, no one at the present time is JA> working to implement Zmodem in MS-DOS Kermit. If you want JA> to implement Zmodem in MS-DOS Kermit be our guest. The JA> source code is available. However, as the source code is JA> copyright you must submit your changes back to Columbia JA> University for distribution. You cannot distribute the JA> altered software yourself. I might try to vector the `int 14h' into MSKermit to allow `fossil apps' to function as external events but if I was to implement a full zmodem send / receive Columbia would have to buy it from me or live without a copy. 8) Money can be _so_ important when man-hours are a part of the equation. N2> I discovered that i could access my ~SMTP~ server on ~IP~ N2> port #25 but `Kermit' is the only program not to allow me N2> such access if i try! Why? JA> Spoofing is just what you think it is. It is someone JA> sending mail via an e-mail address which either does not JA> belong to them. The usual purpose is to SPAM or commit JA> fraud. Are there other ways to do this? Yes. But a decision JA> was made a long time ago that MS-DOS Kermit should not be a JA> tool that could be used for this purpose. Therefore, port JA> 25 is blocked. I always imagined a bored employee sitting at a terminal somewhere fiddling with the keyboard trying to look busy using these stupid tricks to fill an otherwise empty headed existence that dedicates his / her life to learning how to fowl things up. You've either done everyone a favor or become CyberCop. Either way I have no idea what `spoofing' is and don't really care very much. I would like to have external protocols function with MSKermit - that would not be wasted time IMO. Who knows, there may be another new protocol in a few years that we would all like to try out without writing an entire application just to try it? 8) The source code being written _only_ for MSC and MASM means that I'm not going to be able to help a great deal any time soon. I would have to first convert the code to compile here and _then_ attempt to implement the vector reset of `int 14h'. 8( > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 20:55:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA05215 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:55:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03092 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:48:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 18 Jan 2000 01:48:20 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <860gp4$30h$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : FD> If you want Zmodem software with Kermit scripting for DOS, you're : FD> in the unenviable position of having to put it together yourself. : FD> It's not Omen's job to give you Kermit scripting, and it's not our : FD> job to give you Zmodem protocol. : : You keep saying this and yet zmodem found it's way into the WIN95 Kermit. : Are you not aware that zmodem is in the WIN95 Kermit? If it doesn't : belong in there someone should remove it. We are very well aware that Zmodem is in Kermit 95. I put it there. As I have stated repeatedly in this thread, the Zmodem support in K95 is there because somebody donated it with the condition that it only be used in Kermit 95. : --8<--cut : : FD> There are real people at work here. For some of us, it is our job. : FD> For others, all participation is voluntary, outside of their real : FD> jobs. The demands on our time are greater than the time available. : FD> We do our best to serve the largest number of people in the time we : FD> have. : : Not quite sure what "real people" is supposed to mean in this context. : It reads as though you left out the word "important". : : To say "We're really busy right now and are not able to get to anything : new at this time." would be a nicer way to say the same thing IMO. Frank has tried to be extremely polite and careful with his words. Please do not add words to something Frank says because by doing so you are reading what you want to hear and not what Frank is saying. : FD> If you have bug reports, we welcome them. If you have questions of : FD> reasonable scope, we try to answer them. If you have suggestions, : FD> we'll listen to them, but we're not obligated to act on them. If we : FD> have a hundred thousand users anxiously waiting for some particular : FD> new feature in one of our programs, and one person looking for some : FD> other feature, all else being equal, I think the course is clear. : : Could you give an example of this new feature you are all working on : that 100,000 users are anxiously waiting for? For a small idea of the work we have doing for the last three years you may read http://www.kermit-project.org/ckermit.html for a description of C-Kermit 7.0 and the Internet Kermit Service. This latest implementation of Kermit for Unix, VMS, VOS, ... and the Kermit 95 for Windows 95/98/NT/2000 and OS/2 that will shortly follow is what we have been working on. This does not include the work we do as part of our involvement with International Standards organizations, the Unicode Consortium, and the Internet Engineering Task Force. Nor does it include the help desk support we provide to end users via e-mail (9000 messages in the last 12 months) plus telephone support. I think we have been rather busy. : --8<--cut : : FD> Nobody is going to wade through a long script hunting for where : FD> the problem might be. : : "Nobody" is a bit general. I intend to try the script (it takes only : 10 or 15 minutes) and see what happens. A newsgroup is meant for user to user support in addition to developer to user support. I look forward to your analysis of the problem and hopefully a solution. : --8<--cut : : FD> Nevertheless, we have been doing our best to show the BBS world how : FD> they can improve the situation. Read, for example, the article on : FD> MS-DOS Kermit and BBS's here: : : FD> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/newsn6.html#bbs : : I have also mentioned the page on your website admitting that the : misunderstanding about the 94 byte packets was caused by using it as : the default setting for kermit for so many years. To be honest you : are the people that caused the problem but won't admit it. In what way are we responsible. The Kermit protocol has evolved from 1980 until the present. The first version supporting packets longer than 94 bytes was released in May 1985. The reason that we have not used greater than 94 bytes as the default packet length until Kermit 95 and C-Kermit 7.0 is that up until the present time we have been more concerned with making sure that the transfer would work the first time the user tried to transfer a file. Otherwise, users that need to perform a transfer one and only one time would very frequently try to transfer the file and have the transfer completely fail. They would then be forced to learn a great deal more about Kermit than they would want to. The fact that Kermit always worked when Zmodem often failed is the primary reason that Kermit is often sought out. We have made the change in C-Kermit 7.0 and Kermit 95 because the most common use of Kermit for file transfers is now over TCP/IP connections which are reliable. It is for this same reason that Kermit has evolved to support streaming transfers. As long as TCP is ensuring error free delivery of data there is no reason for Kermit to duplicate the effort. : --8<--cut : : FD> MS-DOS Kermit and the environment it runs in have memory : FD> limitations. Now, I'm all for the idea of keeping old equipment : FD> alive and finding new uses for it, but when you consider that you : FD> can buy an Internet ready PC with 32 or 64MB of memory today for a : FD> fraction of the cost of the original IBM PC, maybe it's time to : FD> look at how much your time is worth. : : There are many people who restore old automobiles, others restore old : furniture. Do you think they should buy only `new'? : : For some this is a hobby and doing it with the original equipment or : close to the original is a challenge. It's not always about money. : : Any fool can buy his way onto the Internet. It may not be about money, but it is about time. What you are requesting is that either Professor Doupnik or one of the paid members of the Kermit Project take our time to develop and implement a Zmodem implementation for MS-DOS Kermit. This is not a trivial one hour job. If it were it might have been done years ago. It is also a memory trade off. As you have seen from threads this week there are concerns about memory space and scripts. Adding 45K of code to MS-DOS Kermit it would significantly reduce the size of the scripts that might be implemented. : --8<--cut : : FD> Here are a couple observations that might be helpful: : : FD> 2. The command to use for ASCII uploads is TRANSMIT. If you use : FD> that instead of OPEN READ, READ, ..., CLOSE READ, you won't : FD> experience any interference with the data. : : I've used the TRANSMIT a few times. The entire screen goes haywire and : looks like a runaway ASM program (core dump?) but when it finally stops : the data has been transmitted. A bit unnevering to watch if you've had : many ASM programs try trashing your hard drive on you. : : It appears to be functional but could use a better display format that : doesn't scare the heck out of you when you do use it IMO. Turn off echoing if you do not desire it. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 21:25:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06291 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA04776 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:22:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 18 Jan 2000 02:22:48 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <860ipo$4l5$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: I wrote a full reply to this letter and then through it all away when I arrived at the following paragraph. : I might try to vector the `int 14h' into MSKermit to allow : `fossil apps' to function as external events but if I was to : implement a full zmodem send / receive Columbia would have to : buy it from me or live without a copy. 8) Money can be _so_ : important when man-hours are a part of the equation. I think the statement speaks for itself. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 21:25:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA06293 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA03528 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:59:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 00 18:08:46 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <0pOg4.6714$NU6.285660@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, cangel@famvid.com writes: > On 2000-01-17 no_spam@adams.patriot.net() said: > > AD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc > AD> Frank da Cruz (fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu) wrote: > AD> In article <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net>, > AD> wrote: > > N2> In the past two weeks or so, i couldn't but take note that > N2> MY NEED for a `ZMoDem' protocol has been disregarded from > N2> the start; ... > > AD> Again, this is the Kermit Project, not the Zmodem Project. > AD> The source for Zmodem is Omen Technogy. If you want Zmodem > AD> software for DOS, you can get it from there. > > Unless you want to use Windows. In that case it _is_ the > `Zmodem Project' after all!!! > > AD> If you want to use Zmodem (or "ZMoDem," if you insist) file > AD> transfers from within MS-DOS Kermit, there are three ways > AD> you can go about it: > > AD> 1. You can demand that the Kermit developers add about 50K > AD> of new code to implement a protocol that (apparently) very > AD> few people need in their Kermit software. > > To add a vector reset of `int 14h' wouldn't add even 2k to the > code. > > When you say "very few people need" I'm guessing you run W9x > and therefore do have the zmodem in _your_ `Kermit / Zmodem > Project' version. If you had no access to a working zmodem > you'd sing a different tune me thinks. > > AD> 2. You can get DSZ from Omen Technology, register it for > AD> about $20, and write a couple of Kermit macros (see below) > AD> that will cause Kermit to call DSZ and send or receive > AD> files. > > The need is to use this over telnet. DSZ does not _do_ telnet. > > AD> 3. You can get the source code and add it yourself. > > Or buy a new computer with Windows installed and use the > `Kermit / Zmodem Project' version. We know. > > AD> I have found that the second solution works a lot better > AD> than the first. I haven't had time to try the third yet. > > When you get #3 working, please do let us know? > > Anyone with the proper version of MSC and MASM who is familiar > with the source code could have the `int 14h' vector reset > working in an afternoon (if you include time to do a few > compiles, testing, and compressing it into a BINARY archive to > upload to WERMIT). For DOS programmers this is not rocket > science its standard operating procedure. > > BTW: I'm not sure using the 'd' switch for DSZ when doing a > dialup is a good idea. It tells DSZ to ignore carrier detection > which means it could lockup on you if carrier drops. > If I may be so bold as to suggest you are not very familiar with the technical consequences of the suggestions you make. It is not that simple at all when the chips are counted. What's more, MSK isn't intended to be "someone else's TCP/IP stack because we can't do it ourselves and thus want it done for free by some poor sod." No thanks. If you want WATTCP then use it. If it's not up to your specs then rewrite it to be so. Beneath all the berating you offer that's what I suspect you really want: a better WATTCP at someone else's expense, so you can run Zmodem over IP. Have you considered for a moment talking with Omen Tech? Joe D. >> >> , , >> o/ Charles.Angelich \o , >> <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ >> / > USA, MI < \ __\__ > From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 17 22:55:58 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA12983 for ; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:55:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA08835 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:45:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 00 20:05:48 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <860ipo$4l5$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) writes: > In article , > wrote: > > I wrote a full reply to this letter and then through it all away > when I arrived at the following paragraph. > > : I might try to vector the `int 14h' into MSKermit to allow > : `fossil apps' to function as external events but if I was to > : implement a full zmodem send / receive Columbia would have to > : buy it from me or live without a copy. 8) Money can be _so_ > : important when man-hours are a part of the equation. > > I think the statement speaks for itself. > > Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 > The Kermit Project * Columbia University > 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 > http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org -------- Well put Jeff! While I am here, for the benefit of other readers, I'm not really a reactionary grouch, I'm a very progressive grouch! Charles apparently has not looked at the MSK code to discover what integration really means, and even then systems problems pass him by completely (one afternoon stuff). MSK was not designed to be taken apart like some hapless corporation on the chop block. It was tightly integrated to perform well in minimal space and least cpu resources. The consequences of that require study to savor, the same as they required study to create. Those with an interest in systems work may wish to dig/wade in for personal curiosity. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 06:56:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24014 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:56:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA29024 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:50:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:25 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-17 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD> Zmodem JD> isn't in the plans for MSK, sorry. ... has carefully pointed JD> out how to run Zmodem while within Kermit and that's great. DSZ doesn't work while telnet'g. JD> I hope JD> that in this particular thread the MSK source code is now in hand JD> and being scrutinized for local embellishment. That's one reason we JD> publish it. The `int 14h' vector hook for external protocols - any observations, comments, anything at all? > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 06:56:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24021 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:56:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA28956 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:49:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:28 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-17 weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de(ChristophWeber-Fahr) said: W>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc W>cangel@famvid.com writes: W>>On 1900-01-14 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: --8<--cut W>> Possibly a more specific answer to the question would aid in my W>> being able to understand the answer. "Parted company", "hardly", W>> and "fork in the road" are poetic but not in any way specific. W>> In a technical discussion they are no answer at all. W> Oh - a code fork is a pretty well understood term in the open (and W> not so open) source world. I have no idea what you are talking about and I doubt you do either. W> At a time, the Kermit Project got permission to use the WatTCP code. W> They (essentially Joe Doupnik) continued to enhance and develop it W> on their own. Where's the problem ? I've posted what the `problem' is and I feel no need to repeat myself just because you are not paying attention. Reread the thread or not I could care less. Other than `me too'ing you have added nothing to the conversation. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 06:56:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24024 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:56:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA29020 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:50:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:23 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-17 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: FD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc FD>In article , FD> wrote FD> On 1900-01-16 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said FD>JD> What you seem to be impervious to, despite repeated FD>JD> reminders, is 94 byte Kermit packets is the original and FD>JD> default operating condition. In lieu of negotiations on FD>JD> the wire that is what is used, and it will work where FD>JD> longer packets will not. It's the specification of the FD>JD> protocol. That may not fit your particular tastes, but FD>JD> it is the standard and has been for eons. CA> Then you should remove html#7 (if I remember correctly) CA> from your website --8<--cut FD> What is html#7? Please use URLs so we know which page you FD> mean. 94-byte packets were never a mistake. They were FD> appropriate at the time (early 1980s) and still work. FD> Longer packets are more appropriate now, but they still FD> don't always work. Check the site that Joe Doupnik gave me for the v315 source code. A copy of this is in the same directory he mentioned. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JD> Charles, JD> Despite all, you have a point, which was unstated but otherwise JD> implied. It is the source files for MSK are difficult to pick out on JD> Columbia's ftp/web site. They are, it's terrible trying to do this. JD> To make things simpler right now please visit netlab1.usu.edu or JD> netlab2.usu.edu, go into the Kermit directory and see a source JD> subdir. Take what's there, which will be the source files for MSK 3. JD> 15 (not 3.16). These are my machines. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ FD> Are the `scripts, hints, and kinks' in a particular FD> directory or just wherever they can be found? FD> MS-DOS Kermit has a manual FD> http//www.columbia.edu/kermit/manuals.html You left out FOR SALE. 8) FD> It also comes with lots of text files including KERMIT.BWR FD> (the "hints and tips and 'watch out'" file), FD> NETWORKS\SETUP.DOC, which goes into great detail about FD> setting up a network connection. These files are on your FD> own PC's disk if you installed from the main MS-DOS Kermit FD> 3.14 ZIP file (versions 3.15 and 3.15 are "overlays" over FD> the 3.14 distribution, as explained on the Web page). FD> By the way, you can now pick up the source files for MS-DOS FD> Kermit in convenient ZIP'd format at FD> ftp//kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/msk315src.zip Thanks. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 06:56:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24027 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:56:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA29073 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:53:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <2qYg4.8108$NU6.340406@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:16 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-17 weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de(ChristophWeber-Fahr) said: W> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc --8<--cut W> Maybe, Just Maybe... you didn't like the answers ? I thinkk W> there were. Or maybe the total lack of feedback concerning the macros themselves? --8<--cut W> This is understandable and a certainly fascinating hobby. W> But please understand why people write software like this... W> because they have a need for it. There is a need for zmodem or the W9x Kermit wouldn't have it. W> Given that you can get 386 and lowly 486 machines for free W> all over the place these days, most people have moved at W> least there. W> And there's Linux. And FreeBSD. And OS/2. Whatever. If you had a friend who was restoring an old Model 'A' Ford would you say "Nice car, now go buy a new one". I don't think so. W> So you are essentially forced to rely on what was there when W> DOS ruled the day. And in these days most folks didn't have W> ppp account. No one has asked for assistance with PPP accounts. EPPPD.EXE does PPP no problem (it's used by ARACHNE also). W> Actually, PPP ... W> You just can't get PPP. Tell it to ARACHNE users. I use it every day and so does Michel. W> for PPP, you should look at the usual TCPIP packages. MSKermit _is_ a TCPIP package, it doesn't supply the packet driver. --8<--cut W> But of course you don't find ZModem there. Back then, it W> would have been considered strange to access a BBS via W> dialup PPP. And that was then and this is now. W> Three words: a MMU (which lets you run Linux or FreeBSD) and W> is part of the intel architecture from '386 on W> minicom W> rz/sz Now you're saying we should change our hardware, our OS, and stop using Kermit altogether? This is supposed to be helpful? Should I have someone else use the computer also and just leave the house? --8<--cut W> Around '92 or so, I tried to discuss the thing with him. Oh my gosh, you've been online for more than 6 years, no 7 years, no that's not right. A long long time! --8<--cut N2> [...a few imprsessive Examples of kermit script usage N2> deleted...] W> If you absolutely must read news under DOS, just go W> searching for Peter Tattam's Trumpet Newsreader. There used W> to be a DOS version. Again ... it's the challenge to do these things and share the successes and failures. You discuss this like an avid point-n-clicker. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 06:56:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24030 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:56:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA29070 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:53:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <_pYg4.8106$NU6.340406@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:11 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-17 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA>In article <4bLg4.6414$NU6.261988@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, JA> wrote: CA> I too could use the zmodem alternative for BBS that only have 94 CA> byte crippled kermit implementations and have said this several CA> times. As you have said, it's a `no starter' here UNLESS you use CA> W95. For some reason having W95 makes zmodem suddenly very CA> logical and necessary to have as an option. Strange how that CA> works since W95 users have a multitude of choices for other CA> terminal apps with a working zmodem and 16 bit DOS users have CA> ZERO. I marvel at the logic. JA> As stated in previous responses to this thread the Zmodem library JA> used in Kermit 95 was developed by a Kermit 95 user and donated to JA> The Kermit Project. It has also been stated previously in this thread that if there was a need for zmodem it would've been addressed. Apparently the `need' was obvious enough for W9x users or you wouldn't have accepted the `donation' since it did not install itself and that would take time away from more important things that 100k users were waiting for. You play it both ways depending on your mood. JA> The library is only available for Kermit 95 JA> because we are not allowed to redistribute the source code. Since JA> C-Kermit and MS-DOS Kermit are source code distributions the Zmodem JA> library cannot be integrated into those products. Can't figure out how to do it eh? JA> The solution to this situation is very simple. Write your own JA> Zmodem library to integrate with MS-DOS Kermit that does not JA> violate the copyright of Omen Technologies and donate it to the JA> Kermit Project. As soon as the rest of you drop off the payroll and stop charging for the documentation I'll do that but I won't hold my breath - OK? JA> Professor Doupnik has donated a large part of his JA> last two decades developing and supporting MS-DOS Kermit. I find JA> it incredible that anyone would take such a thankless position. On JA> one had you say that MS-DOS Kermit is this incredible piece of JA> software that is more than three times faster than anything else JA> you have seen. But then you complain that it doesn't do everything JA> that you want it to do. It's called being truthful. You should give it a try. I didn't just say it didn't do everything, I suggested a quick and easy `fix' that would take someone familiar with the code (and owning exactly the correct version and type of compiler) about one afternoon (short one) to change. You don't discuss the relative merits of my suggestion either because you don't understand what I said or you're in the habit of chasing away anyone that might expect you to actually _do_ something. JA> I have to tell you that one of the benefits of being a volunteer JA> software developer is that you get to choose what you want to work JA> on. If Zmodem was something that Professor Doupnik wanted to work JA> on I am sure he would do a fantastic job. But as a academic his JA> primary motivation is to do things that haven't been done before or JA> that solve problems that he is experiencing. I thought the primary goal of an `academic' was to learn not `do' things. I can guarantee Joe that no one has tried to put an `int 14h' hook into MSKermit before and it would solve problems for anyone trying to use MSK to upload and download offline mail packets from telnet'able BBS. FIDO mail types like me. JA> The v316 has been in `beta' longer than most software even lasts JA> from start to finish. JA> The definition of 'beta' is "a test build that is publicly available JA> to end users". It is not an indication that a release is imminent. JA> It is simply a way of Professor being supportive of the users of JA> MS-DOS Kermit by fixing bugs that have been reported. After `x' amount of `testing' you could drop the `beta' designation. It creates the illusion the software is under development. Obviously it is not. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 08:26:01 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28886 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:26:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA02636 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:12:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:11:44 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-18 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA> In article , JA> wrote: JA> I wrote a full reply to this letter and then through it all JA> away when I arrived at the following paragraph. You are a liar, you never intended to explain how Columbia got a copyright on a part of WATTCP. CA> I might try to vector the `int 14h' into MSKermit to allow CA> `fossil apps' to function as external events but if I was CA> to implement a full zmodem send / receive Columbia would CA> have to buy it from me or live without a copy. 8) Money can CA> be _so_ important when man-hours are a part of the equation. JA> I think the statement speaks for itself. Yes, only a moron donates man hours to a group that copyrights everything in their name. As you keep reminding me you own it all. For ownership you pay or you do it yourself. This is a cute way to avoid explaining how Columbia University can claim a copyright on part of the WATTCP package when you say nothing from Kermit ever got back into the WATTCP package. I think you would copyright this newsgroup if you knew a way to do it. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 08:26:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28888 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:26:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA02655 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:13:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:11:40 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-17 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD>In article <860ipo$4l5$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, JD>>jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) writes: In JD>>article , JD> wrote: > --8<--cut JD> Well put Jeff! No it's not really Joe. You may not make money on this but other people do, or so I've been told. No reason they should and I should not. --8<--cut JD> Charles apparently has not looked at the MSK code Hard to do when you get smoke and mirrors trying to locate the source code Joe. JD> to discover what integration really means, and even then JD> systems problems pass him by completely (one afternoon JD> stuff). Yes, they do Joe, they really really do. JD> MSK was not designed to be taken apart like some hapless JD> corporation on the chop block. I only suggested an addition to grant access to external protocols, I didn't say to "rip it's lungs out". BTW: There _are_ no hapless corporations they are as evil as anything you could ever imagine. JD> It was tightly integrated to perform well in minimal space JD> and least cpu resources. It is impressive in function and in size and surely you must be proud of it. It was one small suggestion Joe ... doesn't anyone ever suggest anything to you anymore? JD> The consequences of that require study to savor, the same JD> as they required study to create. I do understand what you are saying, I've done this in the past myself with code. One small change Joe, just one. JD> Those with an interest in systems work may wish to dig/wade JD> in for personal curiosity. If the code ever materializes I'll certainly take a look at it Joe. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 08:26:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28891 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:26:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA02774 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:16:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:11:36 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-17 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD> In article <0pOg4.6714$NU6.285660@tw12.nn.bcandid.com>, JD>> cangel@famvid.com writes: On 2000-01-17 no_spam@adams.patriot. --8<--cut JD> If I may be so bold as to suggest you are not very familiar JD> with the technical consequences of the suggestions you make. I'm certain that you are more familiar with the MSKermit source code since you like to send people to servers looking for non-existent directories containing non-existent files. JD> It is not that simple at all when the chips are counted. Getting a straight answer here as to where the source code is or getting _any_ straight answer here is not simple and I never thought it was - trust me. JD> What's more, MSK isn't intended to be "someone else's JD> TCP/IP stack because we can't do it ourselves and thus want JD> it done for free by some poor sod." Now you're just embarassing yourself. What do I have to do fax you a signed affidavit that I only want this for my own personal use? GEEESH lighten up. JD> No thanks. If you want WATTCP then use it. If it's not up JD> to your specs then rewrite it to be so. Beneath all the JD> berating you offer that's what I suspect you really want: a JD> better WATTCP at someone else's expense, so you can run JD> Zmodem over IP. You must be getting old or not getting enough sleep. Paranoia is an ugly thing. Relax, take a deep breath, and remind yourself that you have a 10 year head start on this and no one is going to get ahead of you unless you go into a comma for a decade. Would it make you feel any better to know I'm just a 50+ year old man with 6 children and 13 grandchildren. I'm no kid looking to do `big' things. JD> Have you considered for a moment talking with Omen Tech? I have exchanged email with Chuck Forsberg regarding this. Chuck wants to make $$$ at this and isn't in it for the love of the sport if you know what I mean. I was surprised that he never updated the DOS ZCOMM nor the DOS version of PRO-YAM to do telnet since they seem to lend themselves to the job but apparently he never did? I don't think he has been happy with the return ($$$) on FDSZ and I am reasonably certain that FDSZ is dead as far as he is concerned. There is no `handshake' in FDSZ which means it will not stop when a receiver asks it to stop sending so that uploading is dicey at best when doing a direct dialup using a fossil driver and impossibe over telent TCPIP connections. Mr. Forsberg did make a few suggestions that finally got FDSZ to where it will download in X, Y, and Z protocols and offered his site for testing so that I could have Omen Tech software at both ends. I have Omen Tech's newest RZSZ source code but it's written for those OS that redirect stdio for telecom. A somewhat less complicated approach than is required for DOS IMO. I've also had conversations with Eric Engle regarding WATTCP, and a few of the people involved with Demon.Uk and their use of KA9Q. KA9Q has more potential than most and can even multitask an FTP download with other connections but I can't get the code to compile here (my compiler is old and not enough memory) so I haven't pursued that. As for WATTCP it seems to have become less stable than it was so I `diff'd the older code with the new and found one major change but I haven't had time to pursue it further because I've been tied up in a newsgroup chasing my tail looking for MSKermit code. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 10:56:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00138 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:56:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10292 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:34:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: <011800100726not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:24:16 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi everybody, (303 lines: stirr up some beverage before you proceed!) FDC> ...you can now pick up the source files for MS-DOS Kermit in FDC> convenient ZIP'd format at: .../kermit/msk315src.zip Good! I believe i should thank the one who's at the origin of this fine recent development!!! I'm sure there's a guy who now finds some relief, out there, somewhere in Michigan... Thanks! ;-) I'm just a bit sorry it doesn't solve problems because of it's sole presence. Hummm... But i did get it, sure! Only, it was in a slightly different location: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/archives/msk315src.zip At least, i can augment my little archive museum now... %-) I mean, nobody here should be alarmed since we haven't seen a programmer yet who stated he'd take a dip at it - right thru... %-o Much less was i successfull at learning the required programming skills myself, over night! - and there's no chance that i can "abuse" any time soon, that's for sure... heck, i don't even have the programmer's tools, anyway!... Euh... I do thank the ~FTP~ site maintainer but more specially i'd like to thank you, Charles, because your insistance is what made things move! 8-) Maybe i can't have hope for a `Kermit' `ZMoDem' addition anytime soon but a door just opened; who kows, something might happen before two or three years have past!... P-) Keep up the good work! Ha! Ha! 8-D)', [...] FDC> There are real people at work here. Well, well... I'd say the latest posting ignited some reactions lately! That's quite puzzling since i tried to make sure (from the start) that i left no chance for confusion to take place: indeed, i wrote "MS-Kermit" so often that one can wonder about the number of times members from the other `Kermit' teams forgot that i never ever addressed them at all! :( Of course, as i've stated before, there are quick/short passages which i find to be *KNOWLEDGEABLE*, *HELPING*, *COOPERATIVE* - MY *MAGIC WORDS*! Only, i also stated it previously, i'm sorry to write that i observe the following again: there's a price to pay for he who happens to be lucky enough to get any of those thoughtfull hints! And what high price would that be, precisely?... 8-o Well, most often, it takes form in comments which aren't really about my topics... There's been a lot of wandering that's hardly relevant to anything but to each other's perceptions... I still am of the opinion that i don't see the point of someone who wants to argue when that same person made it quite clear that there's nothing to be said that is relevant to the original topic!... I'm sorry... i'm given no choice but to insist once more: i'm now experimenting with the `MS-DOS' version of `Kermit v3.16 Beta'. I'm a DOS_InterNet user, which means i've been accessing the Net with DOS programs for some time now... MY *MAGIC WORD* here is *RESPECT*. I like to play nice but all i ask is for correspondants to RESPECT the terms i've clearly established as the set of topics into which i'm willing to engage some of *MY* time; then, i'll be more than willing to pay them back with the same RESPECT too. You who want to discuss `Win 3.1x/9x' or `Linux', please forget i exist! When you see that i ask for help keep in mind i meant help, not mockery. I've seen better manifestations of "politeness" and "carefullness" in my life: some guys sure don't need shocking words for the opposite effect! A person to who i must repeat that i'm no programmer and who would keep suggesting that i should do things myself is making mockery of me, IMHO! %-7 I'M FORCING NO ONE TO REPLY. Only, i DEMAND that he who chooses to send me a reply will be respectfull enough not to overlook the context which i *DID* take care to define. I'm aware of the alternative platforms but I'M NOT INTERRESTED; actually, i perceive those comments about `Win 9x" and others as being a pure futile annoying act and i despise anyone who chooses not to RESPECT my most basic request, REPEATEDLY... Should i've been mistaking about this ~NG~'s nature, please let me know; but if the `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' team has elected home in here too then just don't waste my time! 8-7 Cool off and let the `MS-DOS' and `?-Kermit' topics co-exist!!! I've just learned that there still is - at least - 1 member left around: MAYBE that somebody DOES happen to mind and he's the one i wish to address, primarily... I shall welcome those who are offering me their helping hand and - please - just consider that i'm aware each of us here is busy with his own life. 8-o My sole interrest isn't to make ennemies but to get some advise; only, don't expect me to welcome those who believe they can direct me on what i should _like_ or not, on what i should _have_ or not!!! At the origin, i used a somewhat *neutral* tone to convey my topic; i can understand that some established readers are under the impression they earned the right to demonstrate their FEELINGS but, frankly put, we'd be better if we could just keep short with each other's self-JUSTIFICATIONS - my postings would only be a bit lighter!!! One of the late replies shows me that i'm thought to be a self-centered kind of person. Well, should this ~NG~'s line of topic have been about self-JUSTIFICATIONS, i'd have this comment more than ready to serve all right: that's sort of a precipitated conclusion when one considers that it came after such a short time (and so few of my postings...), already! [...] I repeat, here's the * M I N I M U M S E T U P * on which i insist i must be able to experiment with `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta'. MY MOTIVE IS NOT THE TOPIC at all, i currently conduct my preliminary tests on higher machines but i'm not willing to discuss and/or justify those choices... The target *IS* attainable (and i DO have some good hint that it *IS*!): - 8088 4,77 Mhz ~CPU~ - 640 Kb ~RAM~ memory (512 Kb if possible!) - No Hard-Disk - Two 5.25"/360 Kb diskette drives or a single 3.5"/720 Kb unit - A crude 8250 ~UART~ serial-port - A V.42Bis MoDem or better (i tied up an external 56K MoDem to a 8088!) - DOS v3.3 (v3.0 compatibility would be fine but not required) To _upgrade_ the hardware or to _switch_ to protocols like ~FTP~/~HTTP~ * I S N O T * a n o p t i o n . I repeat: NOT AN OPTION. I've been told that good used "modern" PCs aren't that expensive; well, those who'd prove to have some problems reading THAT must know there has been 2-for-1 ocular glass discounts everywhere for some time now... The only kind of prothesis apparatus that i bet they haven't invented yet is one for correcting an obtuse mind! Ouch! I'm sure that's the one part which will be retained the most - right there!... %-o Euh... Anyway. I'm already able of using `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' on such limited setup and *THIS* post DID come to you with the help of nothing else but my set of `Kermit' macros. So, i'm afraid the "No can do" reply doesn't apply! I'm quite confident a `ZMoDem' routine wouldn't be that different from a `Kermit' one; i can't do anything about it but i can hope. After all, i just learned - two weeks and a few "warming" comments ago - that the `ZMoDem' code from the `Win 9x' version of `Kermit' has been donated by a "contributor" indeed. OKay, maybe there's no point in trying to learn the name of that guy so that we can ask HIM wether or not *HE* would be willing to give permission that his code be ported to the `DOS' version. Sheesh! Why wasn't this mentioned before?!... %-7 Hummm... Anyway, i know that there's a couple * P U B L I C D O M A I N * `ZMoDem' file transfer protocols on the Net - isn't THAT good enough?!? Look at that: ftp://pcmicro.com/file_transfer_protocols/ `MPMoD160.ZIP' is from 1994 but it's claimed not to use any part of mr. Forsberg's code and the source-code was free (back then). `PDZM126.ZIP' is one more "Public Domain" program, i'd be curious to see if the author would agree to see his creation being integrated into `Kermit' or not... Etc., etc... 8-) As i wrote previously, `MS-Kermit v3.16' outperforms practically any of the DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~-capable terminal emulators i could find. Meaning: i had to try the DOS ~BIOS INT-14~/~FOSSIL~ alternative hoping i could "share" the ~TelNet~ connection with an external `ZMoDem' protocol... What it also means is that THERE ALREADY IS a number of DOS programs which *DO* allow a user to "share" the ~TelNet~ session between various programs (of course, i discussed that in a previous statement!): MS> "I tried all these ~TelNet~ "shims" so far: `INT14', `Net14', MS> `TCPPort', `TelAPI', `TNGlass' (`RLFossil' too... The problem with those is that the apparent D/L rate seems to be limited to that of a slow 9k6 bps link, i give credit to the INTEGRATED `Kermit' packet-driver interface AND ~TelNet~ protocol for the tremendous boost i observe when i DownLoad using the same-name file transfer protocol and a direct packet-driver interface. I'm having peeks at 4K cps on my 386, i bet `ZmoDem' would triple its actual performance in good conditions! An emphasis has been put on to the fact that this is THE `Kermit' project; well, i submit that `Kermit' isn't just a file transfer protocol but it also happens to be a TERMINAL EMULATOR and the primary function of such a piece of software is for CONNECTING to remote systems, BBSes included. And what protocol is being actually used by most BBSes in existance when a user CONNECTS and needs to D/L, hummm? Certainly not `Kermit'!... :( Charles Angelich's suggestion that `Kermit' might be made to "share" the internal stack/~TelNet~ stuff with an external (`ZMoDem') protocol seems quite sound to me. If `INT14', `Net14', `TCPPort', `TelAPI', `TNGlass', `RLFossil' and any other ~TelNet~ "shim" can do it, why not `Kermit'?!!! For those who would still wonder about what those exotic utilities are, here's how you can think of them: those are executables which interface to a stack/packet-driver on one side and provide a ~TelNet~ client via a ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~ serial-port interface on the other side... Terminal emulator programs equiped with a ~BIOS INT-14~, a ~FOSSIL~ or a ~NASI~ interface can take advantage of such utilities and then become a ~TelNet~ client themselves. Should `Kermit' do the same, it would open a door on a range of possibilities for external protocols like `ZMoDem'; WITHOUT THE MAINTAINERS EVER HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT COPYRIGHTED CODE... A number of ~FOSSIL~-capable external protocols already exist and they ARE at use on numerous BBSes, here and there, around the globe!... If a PUBLIC DOMAIN protocol can't be added then i will submit that a ~FOSSIL~ interface may be a good start for getting nearer to a working solution. It is widely accepted that the speed of a ~FOSSIL~ port can attain 38K4 bps (it too uses the ~INT-14~ vector, if i'm not wrong) and the limit i seem to get on `X00'/`ADF' is 115K2 bps (on serial-port ~UART~ devices). At 38K4 bps, the improvement would be noticeable already; that would be better than 9K6 bps but there is more... I think it would be convenient to have two modern/efficient file transfer protocols in the same program instead of being forced to play acrobat between the applications... 8-o It's been written before, too few implementions of the `Kermit' protocol into other packages proved to be satisfying in the past. To me, `MS-Kermit' is a program which came to a point where you can say that it reached some "maturity" and it would simply be a shame that it shall end its life in an "unfinished" state (i'm only suggesting here)! Charles can't be more right when he points out to the fact that the DOS users are facing an *IMMENSE VOID* when it comes to finding any ~TelNet~ client that would allow for `ZMoDem' file transfers. The `Win 3.1x/9x' users have PLENTY of these; that's probably the case of other platforms too. The *ONE* place where the `MS-Kermit' terminal emulator would have a chance of really being unparalled is DOS, the assumption that `ZMoDem' is some MINOR file transfer protocol is quite astonishing, especially if a user happens to access BBSes, like i do... Anyway, why should almost any new communications program be practically REQUIRED to offer `ZMoDem' if it were so "marginal" in use?! Heck! `Win 9x Kermit' has it!!! %-o Honestly, nobody can disregard the fact that systems like `Windows' are only precipitating the sequence of events and a good deal of the latest posts just tells me that it's now urgent for `MS-Kermit' to get as good as it can, before it dies out... Three or four years after that, it may be way too late to think about it; it's not rare to see still usefull programs in a state of abandon when such program might remain in service for a little while longer... that's most regrettable, IMHO. :( [...] About the ~IP~ port #25 topic, i just learned about the absolute "No-Go" which strikes anyone who would see in `MS-Kermit' a tiny ~SMTP~ client. I do have ~E-Mail~ programs, thank you... but getting this function via the *PRE-EXISTING* main application would make much more sense, really! What can i say but that i deeply regret this bizarre choice!!! :-o The idea that "spammers" are the kind of people who would be willing to face the trouble of using a DOS environment, for the sake of their kind of activitie$, seems a bit unbelievable!... I bet they must be the kind of people who would be amongst the most allergic of all to any technical topic (in their eyes, using DOS probably supposes a good deal of that!), euh... I be damned if they're not the kind of people who are the least capable of resisting to the on-going `Windows'/`Linux' frenzies!... Who decided that `MS-Kermit' must have ~IP~ port #25 locked, especially when i'm told that most users supposedly have moved to other platforms?! I'm tempted to question it but that's going to be a pure waste of my time so i guess i won't be pursueing this much further... Anyway, it appears i may be an ~E-Mail~ "spoofer", after all! I DID try to be a nice guy by asking how i can publish my address and still keep safe but to no end... Put more clearly: i still am unsure if i can put an "anti-spam" address in the header's related field *WITHOUT CAUSING ANY TROUBLE* (but i began to think that anything goes, apparently)! Euh... What's the safest way to proceed when composing such "anti-spam" addresses, so that i can add this to my on-line ~NG~ reading/posting macros, eventually? :^o [...] Finally, about my `Kermit' scripts for reading/posting in ~NG~s... No, `Kermit' doesn't seem to see much difference between a data-file and one of its command/script/macro/take files... Yes indeed, i sure thought of the "Transmit" function and i tried it, of course... Thanks anyway. At this time, the only thing i can still hope for is a remedy that will let me press the ~NG~ [-]/[+] reader keys without being dumped to `Kermit's command-line, after every dozen messages or so! I'm very surprized that the script/macro language has been made so rich (relatively) if it's not to be used in anything else but a dull simple dialing script! I thought i was using the language just the way it was designed for, maybe there's tens of Kilo-bytes of code lying there that would be better if spared... %-o Hummm... But Charles maybe right, maybe i'm just not `worthy', because of my insistance for running this on some hardware that i want to be the earliest and lesser machine one can practically think of... %-7 By the way, i'm sure Hewlett-Packard 200-LX (or any such pocket computer) owner would be happy to know that he can browse the ~WEB~, send and receive an ~E-Mail~, read and post ~NG~s, access his prefered BBS, etc., etc. All this using only `MS-Kermit' as the main application... Euh... Well, i mean all this but not send and receive ~E-Mails~ yet, since the function is being deliberately disabled until further notice!... :( [...] Well, now that i learned that professor Joe Doupnik essentially *IS* the `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' team, euh... I finally know which messages i'll have to read more attentively. :) The author of this tip rendered me a fine service: from now on, it will help me in focusing on a few things; or maybe the previous posts just helped in cutting the few trails (which are still inexistant so far)... %-o Hummm... Please, Pr. Doupnik. I wish you'll consider that i don't "demand" any new `MS-Kermit' feature (like it's been suggested elsewhere), i'm simply making suggestions. I'm open to related discussions (just not any diversion!). You shouln't have to worry that any eventual contact may have to take a bitter aspect if you still believe in the usefullness of `MS-Kermit', as i do myself. :) [...] Anyway, this has been a llllooonng reading for you all and this has been quite much longer for me to type it, i garantee that!... Time to go!... Salutations, Michel Samson From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 11:26:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05753 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:26:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA11981 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:07:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: More C-Kermit 7.0 binaries needed Date: 18 Jan 2000 16:07:00 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <862334$bm9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu C-Kermit 7.0 for VMS was announced here a few weeks ago. In case you missed it: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html After a major C-Kermit release like this we try to collect as many binaries as possible, especially for platforms like VMS that don't come with C compilers as standard equipment. VMS users who have such systems can't get anything useful from us unless we can offer them a binary suitable for their system. VMS offers particular challenges in this area because: . It runs on two different architectures (VAX and Alpha); . It has seen many releases since 1977; . It might or might not have a TCP/IP networking product installed; . There are many different TCP/IP networking products; . There are many releases of each TCP/IP networking product. And because: . You can't run an application built under a later version of VMS; . You can't run an application built with TCP/IP if you don't have it; . You can't run an application built with a different TCP/IP product than the one you have (unless, in some cases, it's UCX); . You can't run an application built with a later version of the same TCP/IP product that you have. . Y2K library patches have thrown a monkeywrench into the works. Of course there are ways around some or all of these difficulties, but we're not well-equipped or well-versed in those ways, so instead we try to collect natively built binaries for as many combinations as we can find. You can see the current list at: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html#binlist (scroll down to the VMS section). As you can see, we have a pretty fair collection, but there are still many gaps. If you can provide binaries for any of the combinations that is not current (i.e. not listed with a "+") or that is not listed at all, please let me know. We are in special need of binaries for the early 4.x (4.4, 4.5) and 5.x VMS releases (pre-5.5), and for that matter, any pre-6.1 version with any networking product at all. Thanks! - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 13:56:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA07968 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA19261 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:30:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Clarence Dold Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 18 Jan 2000 18:24:32 GMT Organization: a2i network Message-ID: <862b50$2dm$1@samba.rahul.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cangel@famvid.com wrote: : I'm certain that you are more familiar with the MSKermit source : code since you like to send people to servers looking for : non-existent directories containing non-existent files. I thought I made note of the change in directory names. Perhaps it didn't propogate to usenet. ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/archives/msk315src.zip Source ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/archives/msk315.zip Object -- --- Clarence A Dold - dold@email.rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. -- --- Clarence A Dold - dold@email.rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 14:56:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20234 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:56:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA23212 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:40:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: <8vfvgbrIQWo8@cc.usu.edu> Date: 18 Jan 00 12:06:51 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu > Anyway, this has been a llllooonng reading for you all and this has been > quite much longer for me to type it, i garantee that!... Time to go!... > > Salutations, > > Michel Samson ------- SMTP (mail) is a full messy protocol and has no business being conducted by a terminal emulator/Kermit file transfer program. The other side needs a proper MX record and a receptive SMTP host, of which the latter is not reasonable on desktop machines which are on and off a lot. This is not the way to do email. MSK can also mimic parts of being a web browser, as we do in class. That's a technical curiosity and not a design decision. It's only that, a curiosity and not a reason to make it a Lynx-II. I have no plans of touching zmodem file transfer material. It is a different universe to construct and that would both bloat MSK and make life confusing to users because of the much different command sets. I need not mention that it costs time to implement correctly, and perhaps licensing fees to Omen Tech Inc to get the full specs (not just the quicky stuff). Similarly, I have no plans on subverting MS-DOS Kermit to be yet another transport layer blob. There are programs out there which can be used and ought not be a speed limiting factor. And they are designed specifically for this task. Again, user interfacing is another big problem, and that makes life difficult for all but the very small number of prospective beneficiaries of a transport blob approach. The internal technical details are more complex that folks appreciate, even though "its only software." It could be I know something about the matter. I am open to discussions on providing an efficient transport layer blob, as I crudely describe this approach, but only on a prepaid contract basis. The same applies to existing BBS software: the Kermit protocol implementation could be made better. If serious then please contact me directly with formal specifics; it won't be cheap. Lest folks misunderstand, I do listen and extract what I think is being asked for (being polite here). From that I make a judgment about what MSK can do to help. So far I think there is a pronounced mismatch and that there are alternatives which do or can be made to work satisfactorily. Further, there are alternatives of basic approach which obviate dealing with BBS software and 8088 class machines; millions of people use them daily. With that I think the matter has been explored here as far as it needs to be. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 16:26:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08195 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:26:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA28515 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:24:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #11: C-Kermit Meets SSH Date: 18 Jan 2000 21:24:36 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <862lmk$rr1$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu One of the most frequent feature requests for Kermit software in recent years has been for SSH (Secure SHell) connections. Although other security methods including Kerberos, SRP, and SSL/TLS are available in C-Kermit 7.0, we have not been able to add SSH, primarily for licensing and patent reasons. But with the UNIX version of C-Kermit 7.0 you can make SSH connections anyway. This gives you C-Kermit's file transfer, character-set translation, and scripting capabilities on an SSH connection. The key is C-Kermit's new PTY command. Pty (pronounced "pity") is the common abbreviation for "pseudoterminal". A pseudoterminal is a virtual (simulated) device that has the characteristics of a real terminal; a Pty is used by UNIX as your controlling terminal when you come in via Telnet, Rlogin, SSH, or other "virtual" means, rather than through a serial port with its "real" terminal driver. The Pty driver mimics what the real terminal driver does on a real terminal. Ptys are also used by programs like 'expect' that run and interact with other programs. Ptys are used for this rather than simple standard i/o redirection because (a) not all programs use standard i/o; (b) many programs behave differently when their standard i/o is not a terminal; and (c) redirected standard i/o has no associated terminal driver. Unfortunately the application programming interface (API) for using Ptys is not standardized across Unix versions (let alone between Unix and other operating-system families), so each platform requires custom code. We were able to add Pty control to C-Kermit 7.0 for the following platforms: . 4.4BSD, including BSDI/OS, NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Mac OS X . DG/UX 5.4R4.11 . Digital UNIX 3.2 and Tru64 UNIX 4.0 . HP-UX 9.00 and later . IBM AIX 4.1 and later . IRIX 6.0 and later . Linux . NeXTSTEP 3.x . QNX 4.25 . SCO OSR5.0.5 . SCO Unixware 7 . SINIX 5.42 . Solaris 2.x and 7 . SunOS 4.1.3 It can be added for others too but some degree of work would be required in each case -- maybe a little, maybe a lot. The Pty interface has many uses. Today we'll talk about SSH since so many people ask about it. Let's begin by making an interactive SSH connection, just as you would with the regular SSH client: ssh xyzcorp.com To do this with C-Kermit, simply prefix the command above with "pty" and give it at the C-Kermit> prompt: C-Kermit> pty ssh xyzcorp.com You can escape back to C-Kermit and re-CONNECT in the normal way, but remember that the SSH client is active too; Newline (Return or Enter key) followed by tilde (~) is the SSH escape sequence, which you can read about in "man ssh". Once you have a terminal connection, can it be used to transfer files? Yes, but first you'll need disable control-character unprefixing because the Pty driver can "do things" to control characters (and also to prevent sending the SSH escape sequence in a packet). Luckily, Kermit protocol is well-suited to such interference. Before initiating a file transfer, just tell the file sender to: set prefixing all That should be all you need (in fact, you don't have to prefix EVERY control character, but the fine tuning is up to you). Assuming you have fast Kermit protocol settings (which C-Kermit 7.0 uses by default), performance is limited by network and/or the underlying pty driver -- some are fast, some aren't. Scripting SSH connections is easy too. As you might recall, a Kermit script uses SET HOST instead of TELNET and it uses INPUT and OUTPUT commands in place of CONNECT and your eyes and fingers. The PTY command is like the TELNET command; it makes the connection and then goes into CONNECT (online interactive terminal) mode. To open an SSH connection without entering CONNECT mode, use: set host /pty ssh xyzcorp.com and then write the rest of your script in the normal manner, except with caution regarding the ssh client's escape sequence. Note the new /PTY switch on the SET HOST command; type "set host ?" at the C-Kermit> prompt to see other new switches, and "help set host" to learn more about them. For complete details on C-Kermit 7.0's Pty interface, read Section 2.7 of ckermit2.txt. For more about why SSH is not included directly in C-Kermit, see: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckfaq.html#ssh If you're a programmer and want to add Pty support for a platform not listed above, let me know. Finally, here's an exercise for the interested reader: rewrite this article under the new title, "C-Kermit Meets Tn3270". - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 16:56:10 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15291 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:56:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA00339 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:55:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: kees@echelon.nl (Kees Hendrikse) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 18 Jan 2000 21:39:36 GMT Organization: Echelon bv Consultancy & Software Development Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:28, cangel@famvid.com wrote: > I have no idea what you are talking about It shows David, it shows. A suggestion: As you don't show any intention to listen to what others want to tell you, go create a newsgroup all for yourself and post your requests there. You can even comment to your posts without bothering anyone else. You don't even have to bash and whine as nobody will pay attention. -- Kees Hendrikse | email: kees@echelon.nl | web: www.echelon.nl ECHELON consultancy and software development | phone: +31 (0)53 48 36 585 PO Box 545, 7500AM Enschede, The Netherlands | fax: +31 (0)53 43 36 222 From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 17:26:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA20354 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:26:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA00652 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:03:09 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Does anybody have AIXLink/X.25? Date: 18 Jan 2000 22:03:08 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <862nus$k0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu C-Kermit 7.0 was announced here a couple weeks ago: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html It includes a significant new feature for AIX: support for making and using X.25 connections in the same way you make and use serial and TCP/IP connections, allowing file transfer, scripting, character-set translation, and everything else C-Kermit does. Unfortunately, the guy who added the X.25 support for AIX no longer has access to a development platform, and I have never had access to an AIX X.25 platform. Therefore we don't have a C-Kermit 7.0 AIX binary that includes X.25 capability. If you have an AIX 4.x system with AIXLink X.25 plus developer tools and would like to build a C-Kermit with X.25, please let me know. Other AIX binaries are still needed too. You can see the list of what we have at: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html#binlist Included so far are: . AIX 1.2.1 on the PS/2. . AIX 3.2.0 on RS/6000. . AIX 4.1.3, 4.3.2, and 4.3.3 on Power Series. . Linux on the System/390 (not AIX but...) Some notable gaps are: . Anything at all for the RT PC. . AIX pre-3.2.0 on the RS/6000. . AIX 3.2.5 on the RS/6000. . AIX 4.2-point-anything. . AIX 4.3.0 or 4.3.1. . AIX ESA or other mainframe versions. Thanks! Frank da Cruz The Kermit Project Columbia University fdc@columbia.edu From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 18:56:10 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09021 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:56:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA06211 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:52:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Spin Doctors From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:46:34 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-18 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA> In article , JA> wrote: JA>FD> If you want Zmodem software with Kermit scripting for JA>FD> DOS, you're in the unenviable position of having to put JA>FD> it together yourself. It's not Omen's job to give you JA>FD> Kermit scripting, and it's not our job to give you JA>FD> Zmodem protocol. This time it's a JOB. Next time it will be volunteer work. This reminds me of those presidential debates. On the one hand you and the other `team' members will refer to this as a JOB and that time and money are the determining factors. When I try to discuss the responsibilities of a JOB you refer to unpaid volunteers. When you say Kermit does not _need_ zmodem and I point out that the `latest and greatest' version has zmodem you tell me it was contributed which is to say "I didn't do it" like a Bart Simpson episode. NOW I'm being told "We are very well aware that Zmodem is in Kermit 95. I put it there.". Playing both sides of your own argument. Your Internet `handle' should be `Shadow Dancer'. You'll never have to be responsible for anything because you are never actually _there_ but when you need to run off people with questions you can stetch to enormous heights in the sunset. JA> You keep saying this and yet zmodem found it's way into the JA> WIN95 Kermit. Are you not aware that zmodem is in the WIN95 JA> Kermit? If it doesn't belong in there someone should remove JA> it. JA> As I have stated repeatedly in this thread, the Zmodem JA> support in K95 is there because somebody donated it with JA> the condition that it only be used in Kermit 95. At the same time you have said that only what MANY users want is put into kermit, now it turns out what is actually required is that some poor boob write it for you and you guys can copyright his / her work and then take credit for another decade? Good scam. JA> : --8<--cut JA>FD> There are real people at work here. For some of us, it JA>FD> is our job. For others, all participation is voluntary, JA>FD> outside of their real jobs. The demands on our time are JA>FD> greater than the time available. We do our best to serve JA>FD> the largest number of people in the time we have. CA> Not quite sure what "real people" is supposed to mean in CA> this context. It reads as though you left out the word CA> "important". CA> To say "We're really busy right now and are not able to get CA> to anything new at this time." would be a nicer way to say CA> the same thing IMO. JA> Frank has tried to be extremely polite and careful with his JA> words. That's not really whats been happening at all. Frank alternates between condescending and somewhat polite. I have postulated that this is a hazard of the teaching profession because you are surround by trainees (students) on a daily basis whereas in the REAL world you are surrounded by equals and some who are even better (smarter) than you are and you are forced to compete (and many times this means you lose). Who do you and Frank compete with when I'm not around? JA> Please do not add words to something Frank says because by JA> doing so you are reading what you want to hear and not what JA> Frank is saying. I don't `hear' anything, this is text. This probably works well with the kids who come to the University to learn a few things - doesn't work on old guys. I'm confident that I can read and understand English and if the meaning of what Frank is writing is vague it's because he intended it to be vague. If it seems arrogant it is intended to be arrogant. I suspect Frank can turn a phrase in any direction he wants it to go. JA>FD> If you have bug reports, we welcome them. If you have JA>FD> questions of reasonable scope, we try to answer them. Yes, I _did_ notice the qualifier "of reasonable scope". You should consider going into politics but then those committees you mention are more political than just a social club aren't they? I must guess that you took "Intro Logic" and "Philosophy" in your youth eh? JA>FD> If you have suggestions, we'll listen to them, but we're JA>FD> not obligated to act on them. Same statement as before, different qualifier. This is a give / take which equals a non-statement. JA>FD> If we have a hundred thousand users anxiously waiting JA>FD> for some particular new feature in one of our programs, JA>FD> and one person looking for some other feature, all else JA>FD> being equal, I think the course is clear. Yes, the course _is_ clear. You wait until some frustrated `user' writes it for you and donates the code then you copyright it. JA>CA> Could you give an example of this new feature you are JA>CA> all working on that 100,000 users are anxiously waiting JA>CA> for? JA> For a small idea of the work we have doing for the last JA> three years you may read Short answer is no you can't. What if I want a LARGE idea of the work you do? How about the name and email address of the head of your department? The guy you ALL answer to including Frank. Maybe he knows what all of you do, or maybe not. This thread and the elusive URL might be of more than passing interest to him / her? JA> for a description of C-Kermit 7.0 and the Internet Kermit JA> Service. This latest implementation of Kermit for Unix, JA> VMS, VOS, ... and the Kermit 95 for Windows 95/98/NT/2000 JA> and OS/2 that will shortly follow is what we have been JA> working on. JA> This does not include the work we do as part of our JA> involvement with International Standards organizations, the JA> Unicode Consortium, and the Internet Engineering Task Force. JA> Nor does it include the help desk support we provide to end JA> users via e-mail (9000 messages in the last 12 months) plus JA> telephone support. I think we have been rather busy. That's 25 email msgs per day (30 day month). 8 msgs for each of you. You're busy but no ones on overload from what you're telling me here. JA>FD> Nobody is going to wade through a long script hunting JA>FD> for where the problem might be. JA> "Nobody" is a bit general. I intend to try the script (it JA> takes only 10 or 15 minutes) and see what happens. JA> A newsgroup is meant for user to user support in addition JA> to developer to user support. I look forward to your JA> analysis of the problem and hopefully a solution. The majority of user `support' here is to insist that no answer is a good answer. That's not support. If Mr.Dold hadn't posted the REAL URL for the MSKermit source code I would probably still be looking for it. Not one of `the team' every posted the REAL URL for the source code - that doesn't even wrinkle an eyebrow for you does it? JA>FD> Nevertheless, we have been doing our best ... --8<--cut JA>FD> Read, for example, ... --8<--cut No, actually there are times when you must actually _do_ something to get their attention. Posting text on a website is `passive'. The information isn't able to seek out those who need it. With a human brain and imagination we can seek out those who need the information and _give_ it to them. Let's see ... here's a thought. Write up a short two page `flyer' introducing `the team' and explaining that kermit can actually match other protocols for speed etc. Go to the FIDONEWS site, download a list of BBS and email using `cc' a copy to these sysops. It's called being pro-active. If it bothers you that they do not come to you as supplicants you could include a short questionnaire asking them if they have tried to install the kermit protocol and run into difficulties and what those were. Have your students cut-n-paste the email addresses of telecom authors as they find them on the Internet and give them to you once a month. Have a robomailer `cc' these authors the same flyer. And so on and so on ... CA> To be honest you are the people that caused the problem but CA> won't admit it. JA> In what way are we responsible. The Kermit protocol has JA> evolved from 1980 until the present. The first version JA> supporting packets longer than 94 bytes was released in May JA> 1985. The reason that we have not used greater than 94 JA> bytes as the default packet length until Kermit 95 and JA> C-Kermit 7.0 This K95 was a real wake up call - your `epoch event' eh? It altered the default packet size AND includes zmodem. A turning point in the continuing saga. JA> is that up until the present time we have been more JA> concerned with making sure that the transfer would work the JA> first time the user tried to transfer a file. Anyone that has been using modern protocols these past decades knows that this argument is absurd. Shortly after dumping Motorola-S code and Intel-Hex the XMODEM and soon ZMODEM protocols were zooming right along. You're going to tell me you crippled kermit for the sake of those HP-48s aren't you? (Yes, I read all that painfully droll information re:HP-48s at your website). JA> Otherwise, users that need to perform a transfer one and JA> only one time would very frequently try to transfer the JA> file and have the transfer completely fail. User that need one single transfer are not really `users' are they? Those of us who use kermit on a daily basis had to suffer for the "one-shots"? Poor logic that. JA> They would then be forced to learn a great deal more about JA> Kermit than they would want to. You're talking about corporate managers here aren't you? JA> The fact that Kermit always worked when Zmodem often failed JA> is the primary reason that Kermit is often sought out. That has not been my experience. Success or failure of zmodem or any other protocol never entered the picture. I would say that when I accessed mainframes I anticipated finding kermit and never zmodem. Had I been accessing more UNIX systems this might have been a bit different at some point. Early implementations of kermit were locked at 94 byte packets and ASCII only transfers (or I was unable to interpret the docs?). JA> We have made the change in C-Kermit 7.0 and Kermit 95 JA> because the most common use of Kermit for file transfers is JA> now over TCP/IP connections which are reliable. It is for JA> this same reason that Kermit has evolved to support JA> streaming transfers. As long as TCP is ensuring error free JA> delivery of data there is no reason for Kermit to duplicate JA> the effort. The majority of what I found in C-Kermit looked to be freebies for corporate `clients' and not all that useful to a hobbyist. Non profit status can be `for the people' or just a tax dodge. I've not `diff'd the last year or so of C-Kermit but I'd wager it would be interesting to see just how many lines of code we are discussing here. JA>CA> There are many people who restore old automobiles, JA>CA> others restore old furniture. Do you think they should JA>CA> buy only `new'? JA>CA> For some this is a hobby and doing it with the original JA>CA> equipment or close to the original is a challenge. It's JA>CA> not always about money. JA>CA> Any fool can buy his way onto the Internet. JA> It may not be about money, but it is about time. Again the petense. Time IS money and the money that is paid to a worker is an IOU for `x' amount of the hours of his life. We then trade our `lives' for the things we either cannot do for ourselves or chose not to do. JA> What you are requesting is that either Professor Doupnik This was `Joe' until recently. Did he only now complete his doctoral thesis? JA> or one of the paid members of the Kermit Project take our JA> time to develop and implement a Zmodem implementation for JA> MS-DOS Kermit. Well ... yes that's what someone there is paid to do. I also ammended my request when I realized that you are not able to do the zmodem transfer. I asked for a `hook' into the TCP/IP stack for external software. JA> This is not a trivial one hour job. For a person familiar with the various functions of MSK the `int 14h' hook is not enough to occupy an entire day (I never said one hour). If you wanted to make a group effort of it and have coffee and doughnuts, swap a few stories, and gossip about your co-workers maybe an entire day. JA> If it were it might have been done years ago. That attitude leads to nowhere. You haven't thought of everything just yet. It's entirely possible no one thought of it and now no one wants to admit it. JA> It is also a memory trade off. Many, if not all, modern telecom apps allow for `plugins' as they call them now. External hooks for additional function. JA> As you have seen from threads this week there are concerns JA> about memory space and scripts. A valid concern, yes. JA> Adding 45K of code to MS-DOS Kermit it would significantly JA> reduce the size of the scripts that might be implemented. Depends. Both kermit and zmodem use similar functions. It would depend on how flexible these are. Many existing kermit functions lend themselves to zmodem (such as calculating the CRC, use of packets, sliding window size, etc.). I already abandoned any hope that zmodem would reside within MSK and ammened my request to only a `hook'. Probably less than 2k of additional code - maybe only 1k if in ASM. --8<--cut JA> I've used the TRANSMIT a few times. The entire screen goes JA> haywire and looks like a runaway ASM program (core dump?) JA> but when it finally stops the data has been transmitted. A JA> bit unnevering to watch if you've had : many ASM programs JA> try trashing your hard drive on you. JA> It appears to be functional but could use a better display JA> format that doesn't scare the heck out of you when you do JA> use it IMO. JA> Turn off echoing if you do not desire it. "If you don't like it don't watch"? Wow! Why didn't I think of that? > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 19:26:10 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA14096 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:26:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA07351 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:16:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Spin Doctors Date: 19 Jan 2000 00:16:23 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <862von$75l$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: [ a lot of things ] Charles wants to get people to do things for him. There's nothing wrong with that -- it's the definition of society: people doing things for each other. How do we get people to do things for us that we otherwise would not have done? Various ways spring to mind: . Ask them nicely. . Get them interested. . Trade something with them. . Pay them. Strategems that usually don't work include: . Sarcasm . Insults . Endless repetition In any case, sometimes the desired service simply cannot be rendered because those who are being asked to provide it are already overcommitted. In such cases, one must learn to do the work oneself, just as those whom you are asking to do it once did, or else give up on the idea and move on. We're not going to respond any further, Charles. Personal attacks have no place here. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 20:26:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18695 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:26:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA10447 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:10:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:01:07 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-18 kees@echelon.nl(KeesHendrikse) said: KE> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc KE> On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:28, cangel@famvid.com wrote: KE> > I have no idea what you are talking about KE> It shows David, it shows. Ah ... there is no David here. Accidently double up on your medication - again? KE> A suggestion: As you don't show any intention to listen to what KE> others want to tell you, go create a newsgroup all for yourself and KE> post your requests there. You can even comment to your posts KE> without bothering anyone else. You don't even have to bash and KE> whine as nobody will pay attention. All the food and oxygen to keep what passes as your brain alive and this is the best idea you can come up with? > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 20:26:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18697 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:26:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09965 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:02:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:52:08 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-18 dold@email.rahul.net said: CD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc CD> cangel@famvid.com wrote: CD> I'm certain that you are more familiar with the MSKermit CD> source code since you like to send people to servers CD> looking for non-existent directories containing CD> non-existent files. CD> I thought I made note of the change in directory names. CD> Perhaps it didn't propogate to usenet. CD> ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/archives/msk315src.zip Source CD> ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/archives/msk315.zip Object I did get your message. You are a gentleman and I thank you for ending this trail of misery. Not _one_ of `the team' has had the decency to post a proper URL where this source code is available. Like dealing with kids at a supermarket, everything is a joke to them. I transferred the files last night. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 20:26:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18700 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:26:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA10704 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:17:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Spin Doctors From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:17:19 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-19 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: CA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc CA> In article , CA> wrote: CA> [ a lot of things ] CA> Frank wants to rest on his laurels. CA> There's nothing wrong with that -- it's the definition of CA> society: people doing as little as they can get away with. CA> How do we get people to do go away so we can feel important? CA> Various ways spring to mind: CA> . Obfuscate CA> . Deny the obvious CA> . Flaunt various titles and committees we belong to. CA> . If all else fails blatant lying might work. CA> Strategems that usually don't work include: CA> . All of the above CA> In any case, sometimes the desired service simply cannot CA> be rendered because those who are being asked to provide CA> it are incapable of doing it. It's been too long CA> and they don't remember how they did it in the first place. CA> In such cases, one must CA> learn to do the work oneself, just as those whom you are CA> asking to do it once did (but have long since lost the CA> ability), or else give up on them and find someone who CA> is still breathing. JD> Personal attacks have no place here. You mean comments about whining and things like that? Not something that any of _you_ would do eh? JIC you didn't notice your msg _is_ a personal attack Frank. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 20:26:12 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18703 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:26:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA09962 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:02:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:52:05 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-18 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD> > Anyway, this has been a llllooonng reading for you all and this JD> >has been quite much longer for me to type it, i garantee that!... JD> Time to go!... > JD> > Salutations, JD> > Michel Samson JD> ------- JD> SMTP (mail) is a full messy protocol and has no business JD> being conducted by a terminal emulator/Kermit file transfer JD> program. I think you've misunderstood Michel a bit here. I know Michel from FIDO echos. Michel is not a programmer in _any_ compiled language. Michel _does_ seem to have a gift for macro languages. He has done amazing things with {COMMO} terminals macro language that I have used here (I also like {COMMO} not just your MSK). 8) The macros are for his enjoyment as other work crossword puzzles or as Ben Franklin doodled his `magic squares' on napkins while he ate. Michel tries to share not only his macros but his knowledge of various packet drivers and TCP/IP configuration files with as many interested users as possible. It is not Michel's intention to undermine MSK or any other telnet application. You should also know that English is not Michel's native language and he must translate all that he posts into English. Michel's DOS is not even in English - I know I've see his batch files. 8) The 300+ lines you deleted without comment would be 600+ lines if you had written them. You do not even acknowledge the effort the man puts into sharing what he has accomplished but you insist on pointing to your own efforts. You are too involved with your own concerns and have been very rude. JD> The other side needs a proper MX record and a receptive JD> SMTP host, of which the latter is not reasonable on desktop JD> machines which are on and off a lot. This is not the way to JD> do email. The existing 80xx email apps are either bloated to the max or have a tendency to want to delete the mail before you can even reply to any of it (strange quirk they all seem to share including NetTamer I am using now). They can be so frustrating that Michel's macros could hardly be any worse. JD> MSK can also mimic parts of being a web browser, as we do JD> in class. I would be curious to see that. I use public access LYNX (because it includes a very good implementation of the kermit transfer) to browse websites when using MSK. JD> That's a technical curiosity and not a design decision. JD> It's only that, a curiosity and not a reason to make it a JD> Lynx-II. It is the same for Michel, a form of entertainment. BTW: Those with disabilities appreciate what LYNX is (as do I) and I take exception to your referring to it as something less than desirable. It happens to have the most compatible kermit transfer I have found on the Internet. JD> I have no plans of touching zmodem file transfer material. JD> It is a different universe to construct and that would both JD> bloat MSK and make life confusing to users because of the JD> much different command sets. Millions do manage both. 8) JD> I need not mention that it costs time to implement JD> correctly, and perhaps licensing fees to Omen Tech Inc to JD> get the full specs (not just the quicky stuff). Similarly, JD> I have no plans on subverting MS-DOS Kermit to be yet JD> another transport layer blob. Modern software uses `plugins'. What do you call those - transport layer blobs? Hooks for external add-ons is the norm there is nothing `bad' about it. JD> There are programs out there which can be used and ought JD> not be a speed limiting factor. And they are designed JD> specifically for this task. Again, user interfacing is JD> another big problem, and that makes life difficult for all JD> but the very small number of prospective beneficiaries of a JD> transport blob approach. The user interface is the responsibility of the author of the external (or plugin as they now call them). JD> The internal technical details are more complex that folks JD> appreciate, even though "its only software." It could be I JD> know something about the matter. I do not view programs as "only software" I assure you. I'm not a kid. I admire you for your accomplishment re:MSK but at this point I admire the software more than the man who worked on it. You're not making the best of impressions here in _my_ part of the universe. JD> I am open to discussions on providing an efficient JD> transport layer blob, as I crudely describe this approach, JD> but only on a prepaid contract basis. The same applies to JD> existing BBS software: the Kermit protocol implementation JD> could be made better. If serious then please contact me JD> directly with formal specifics; it won't be cheap. You see when I said that I got "It speaks for itself" and you gave the guy an `attaboy'. Now you're saying the very same thing. Do all of you have double standards. Is Mount Olympus your zip code? JD> Lest folks misunderstand, I do listen and extract what I JD> think is being asked for (being polite here). Polite here or condescending? JD> From that I make a judgment about what MSK can do to help. JD> So far I think there is a pronounced mismatch and that JD> there are alternatives which do or can be made to work JD> satisfactorily. I have no idea what you just typed. Could you clarify or expand on this a bit? JD> Further, there are alternatives of basic approach which JD> obviate dealing with BBS software and 8088 class machines; JD> millions of people use them daily. I have absorbed the fact, albeit rather slowly, that corporate needs take precedent over average user needs here. JD> With that I think the matter has been explored here as far JD> as it needs to be. What is _needed_ is no more nor less than K95 user _need_. K95 needs zmodem and kermit, MSK needs the same. People are people even if they aren't cororate managers with cute titles. It's really too bad you didn't use this "transport layer blob" phraseology with the author of WATTCP long ago. I'm certain the outcome of your joint venture would have been different than it has been and we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. Have a nice day. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 18 20:56:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21657 for ; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:56:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA11949 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:43:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Mark Sapiro Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:30:44 -0800 Organization: Not Very Much Message-ID: <388513C4.E1D40DC3@value.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cangel@famvid.com wrote: ... > If you intend to take a `holier than thou' attitude yes it is important. > I don't want to offend a minor god. ... > The three > against one wasn't good enough for a `me too' like you huh? For the record, I have apologized to Mr. Angelich in a private correspondence for my 'holier than thou' attitude and for 'piling on'. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 00:26:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04928 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:26:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA22448 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:13:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 18 Jan 00 21:34:47 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu >> I think you've misunderstood Michel a bit here. Perhaps, but I am trying to stick to issues rather than people. I am direct because I have little time to spend on individual messages that ramble. I have discarded 95% of the taunts and jabs as not worth effort to re-read, and continued negative personal commments by you do not improve matters. And I have been candid about the zmodem part of things. Please recall I pointed to the sources on my machines. As far as I am concerned the issues are plain enough, and my response has been published on the list. I don't like saying no to folks, it is not my preferred way to behave, but there are limits and this item exceeds them. It's my call. You have sources, so please dig into them if this item is that important to you. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 00:26:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA04930 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:26:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA21926 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:04:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 19 Jan 2000 05:04:53 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <863gll$ld3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: [discussion of Michael as a wonderful person and macro programming genius deleted] Michael may be a fantastic macro programmer. But I do not have the time to be a consultant to everyone that chooses to send me several hundred lines of Kermit script. [discussion of broken mail programs deleted] If the mail programs are broken then it would make the most sense to put the energy into fixing them. Not trying to twist MS-DOS Kermit into something it was not designed to be; even if it can be made to do it. : : I would be curious to see that. I use public access LYNX : (because it includes a very good implementation of the kermit : transfer) to browse websites when using MSK. The Kermit implementation that Lynx uses is C-Kermit. It does not have its own independent kermit implementation. It simply takes advantage of the work that has already been put into C-Kermit in much the same way that we advise BBS operators to take advantage of the work that has been put into MS-DOS Kermit. : It is the same for Michel, a form of entertainment. : JD> I have no plans of touching zmodem file transfer material. : JD> It is a different universe to construct and that would both : JD> bloat MSK and make life confusing to users because of the : JD> much different command sets. : : Millions do manage both. 8) What does this fact have to do with the situation at hand? Professor Doupnik is the one that has to support the end users of MS-DOS Kermit. He does not want to have to suupport the users that will become confused. That is his choice. [a lot of other extraneous arguments deleted] : What is _needed_ is no more nor less than K95 user _need_. K95 : needs zmodem and kermit, MSK needs the same. People are people : even if they aren't cororate managers with cute titles. I am going to try to explain the history of Kermit 95 in some greater detail with the hope that people will stop trying to compare MS-DOS Kermit and Kermit 95. Kermit 95 is a commercial product which was not derived from stolen code (as has been implied by Michael.) K95 is the successor to the OS/2 version of C-Kermit 5A(191) which was the work of myself and Kai Uwe Rommel. At the time C-Kermit for OS/2 was introduced it did not have a Zmodem library. Nor did I have any interest in writing one. It is interesting to remember that at the time people were jealous of the fact that people could take MS-DOS Kermit and be able to perform Zmodem transfers using DSZ. Jyrki Salmi was a student working part time on an OS/2 BBS for which he was recommending K2 as the client. Since Omen Technologies did not have a Zmodem implementation for OS/2 and wanted a large sum of money to license the source code, Jyrki wrote his own Zmodem library which he called P. P was designed like DSZ to be run as a subprocess and be passed the file handle for the communications device. This worked fine when most people were using Kermit to dial the calls, but it did no good when they wanted Zmodem for other types of connections (LAT, TCP/IP, NetBIOS) that K2 supported. There was something very important to note about P. P was released as two parts: a DLL which implemented the Zmodem protocol and an EXE front end which handled the i/o. While the source code to the EXE was released to the world with Jyrki's copyright he never released the source code to the DLL. This was following the same policy that I had for the K2 source code. I released binaries to the world but never released the source code. Why? Because in all the years that I was working on porting Kermit to 32-bit OS/2, developing terminal emulations, and implementing communications methods, no one (other than Kai Uwe Rommel) ever offered to lend a hand. When I was hired by the Kermit Project to develop a version of Kermit for the forthcoming Windows 95 operating system Jyrki and I made a deal. The result of the agreement was that the Kermit Project would receive the source code and a license to port it to Win32, but we did not have a license to release the source code to the public. The copyright would remain with him (or whoever he chose to sell it to.) When I said that I put Zmodem into Kermit 95 I meant it. Not only did I port P to Win32, but I integrated the P API into K95 so that its i/o mechanisms would be used instead of those designed by Jyrki. When Professor Doupnik says that adding Zmodem to Telnet and integrating it with the Kermit notions of file collisions, window sizes, resend capabilities, file logging, control character prefixing, ... is not a trivial matter, he is not kidding. How do I know? Because I've already done it once and I had the benefit of using one of the cleanest Zmodem APIs I have ever seen. Jyrki did a fantastic job. At first I thought that all I would do is enable the protocol to be switched to Zmodem instead of Kermit, and then when a file transfer took place I could just funnel things through the P DLL. Sounds easy but we quickly ran into problems. Not all telnet servers use a Telnet connection as an NVT. Some use Binary mode in one direction or both. It is necessary for the file transfer engine to know about these modes and be able to toggle quoting on the fly. The i/o needs to be able to bypass the file transfer midstream to handle incoming telnet option negotiations. And to make matters worse, unlike the Unix and VMS worlds, the BBS implementors apparently did as bad a job of reading the Telnet RFCs as they did reading the Kermit protocol specifications. In many cases they made significant mistakes. One prominent one is the negotiation of telnet binary mode in one direction or the other, but using it in both. We were forced to implement workarounds for this because unlike Kermit protocol Zmodem did not provide for selective quoting of control characters because it was designed for 8-bit clean connections. When P was an external add-on for K2 users understood that they would not get file transfer logging, attribute preservation, file transfer selectivity, the ability to script transfers, etc. However, once P was integrated into K95 that changed. Now users wanted every feature that Kermit protocol had to be supported for Zmodem. Performing this integration took over a year. The result of which allowed us to support external Zmodem processes as inline file transfer methods not only in Kermit 95 but in C-Kermit as well. The points to take from this are as follows: . The integration of Zmodem into Kermit when the API has already been written and the language is C, not assembler, is a non-trivial undertaking if you are going to do it correctly. . Performing Zmodem file transfers as an external add-on over a raw TCP/IP connection is possible; over Telnet it requires that there been a tight couplling between the Zmodem engine and the Telnet engine such that using an external process to handle the Zmodem will not work reliably in the very environment which you wish to use it. . The Zmodem library which is built into Kermit 95 was not developed by the Kermit Project, and its use is governed by the copyright holder. Even if we were at liberty to integrate it into MS-DOS Kermit, and Professor Doupnik had the time and desire to do so, we would not be able to distribute the source code. MS-DOS Kermit is distributed as a binary for the convenience of those without the necessary development tools, but its primary means of distribution is in source form. The P library could not be distributed as a part of MS-DOS Kermit. . I, as the sole author of Kermit 95, have the privilege of deciding what features go into it just as Professor Doupnik has the privilege of deciding what work will be done to MS-DOS Kermit. When some one comes asks us to implement a feature we evaluate the feature and determine (a) if we personally need the feature; (b) how much fun it would be to implement; (c) how much time it would take; (d) how much support we will need to provide for it after it is implemented; and (e) whether it would break backwards compatibility Then we decide whether it is something we want to do. The Zmodem question has been asked so many times over the last 15 years that somebody who just walks into this forum and says "Why don't you implement Zmodem" might interpret the negative response as a knee jerk response. It isn't. We have 20 years of experience developing and supporting communications packages that implement the Kermit protocol. Unlike most other open source products, Kermit has had not just community based support but also a dedicated group made up of the authors of the software, as well as paid telephone helpdesk support. When users can't get something to work with their communications software they usually do not have the option of sending an e-mail. Instead they pick up the phone. For the last twenty years we have been there to develop the software and answer the phone. To get some idea of what most of our users think of the support we provide please review http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/tsreviews.html The point that I have tried to make in previous postings about somebody other than Professor Doupnik developing the Zmodem implementation and donating it back to the Kermit community is to address item (c). If someone comes to us and says "kermit is a great program. I've used it to do so many things but it just couldn't do this one thing, so I implemented it. Could you add it to the next release?" We are going to have a very different reaction than somebody who we have never heard of before telling us what we should do, how easy it would be to do, and why we are jerks for saying "sorry, but no." : It's really too bad you didn't use this "transport layer blob" : phraseology with the author of WATTCP long ago. I'm certain the : outcome of your joint venture would have been different than it : has been and we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. : Have a nice day. The separation of the WATTCP and MS-DOS Kermit code is ancient history. It is improper to look at the decisions that were made in 1991 given the changes that have occurred in the last nine years. This is beginning to remind me of the recent arguments that have taken place in the open source crypto community over how Netscape sold their soul to the devil when they chose RSA's patented public key certificates over the currently unpatented D-H based DSA algorithems. At the time the decisions were made very few people had experience with DSA and both RSA and D-H algorithms were patented. The fact that the D-H patent was expiring approximately two years before RSA was not a significant concern compared to the trust people had in RSA and the lower computational requirements that RSA imposed. The reality is that given the circumstances at the time, decisions were made. To try to make the case that things woulld be different if only some person had known better is a waste of time. Jeffrey Altman Senior Software Designer The Kermit Project P.S. The reason that I refer to Professor Joe Doupnik as Professor Doupnik in my postings is as a sign of respect. Professor Doupnik was developing MS-DOS Kermit when I first entered college. I used MS-DOS Kermit throughout my college years as it was distributed to just about everybody at a college campus in the United States that needed remote dialup (and then later network) access. I've never met Professor Doupnik and when we first started conversing about MS-DOS Kermit in the late 80s I was still an undergrad. So my relationship with him was as a Professor to a student. Even if he wasn't a faculty member at the University I attended. My exposure to Kermit was as a user of MS-DOS Kermit so I could work from my dorm room late at night instead of from the labs. I then became a beta tester and a contributor of automated install scripts. When 32-bit OS/2 was released I founded the first U.S. OS/2 user's group and promptly started to work on a version of Kermit for that platform. Kai Uwe Rommel had already implemented a version for 16-bit OS/2 but did not have the time to work on a full 32-bit port nor to flesh out the terminal emulator, integrate it with the OS/2 Workplace Shell, the clipboard, add mouse support, etc. So I took over responsibility. P.P.S. Kermit 95 and a lot of C-Kermit 7.0 are the result of my hard work. Someone asked how much code there is: Unix C-Kermit is approxmately 225,000 lines of C. Kermit 95 has an additional 125,000 lines not including any of the external utilities that we ship such as the K95 Dialer front end. In addition to this are 44,000 lines of documentation which are supplements to the 700 page "Using C-Kermit" book. P.P.P.S. As for Michael's comments that I should be a politician because of my work on Standards bodies, I will take that as a compliment. The Internet is an engineering nightmare that is built on standards. The fact that you can make a TCP/IP from New York to Stockholm, negotiate a terminal type, authenticate your self to the host and vice versa, privatize the data stream with a negotiated encryption algorithm and a secret key, and then transfer a file across the session is not entirely an accident. It is possible because 2000 engineers volunteer their time to meet three times a year, debate the merits of submitted protocols, and prove their cases with implementations. A large part of this process is political because that is how a democratic group negotiates an agreement that everyone can live with. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 01:26:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA08850 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:26:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA24901 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:03:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: <3GGzgJqbIL1a@cc.usu.edu> Date: 18 Jan 00 22:59:51 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu > P.S. The reason that I refer to Professor Joe Doupnik as Professor > Doupnik in my postings is as a sign of respect. Professor Doupnik > was developing MS-DOS Kermit when I first entered college. I used > MS-DOS Kermit throughout my college years as it was distributed to > just about everybody at a college campus in the United States that > needed remote dialup (and then later network) access. > > I've never met Professor Doupnik and when we first started conversing > about MS-DOS Kermit in the late 80s I was still an undergrad. So > my relationship with him was as a Professor to a student. Even if he > wasn't a faculty member at the University I attended. ------- My last word in the thread, I hope. Golly, if folks wanted to please me they could omit the title and credential stuff. It's kind of embarassing. I'm just a guy in the same muddy trench as everyone else, and the mud is winning. Good luck Charles on making things work for you. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 07:26:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04357 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:26:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA29007 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:22:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:17:21 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-18 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD>> P.S. The reason that I refer to Professor Joe Doupnik as JD>> Professor Doupnik in my postings is as a sign of respect. JD>> Professor Doupnik was developing MS-DOS Kermit when I JD>> first entered college. I used MS-DOS Kermit throughout my JD>> college years as it was distributed to just about JD>> everybody at a college campus in the United States that JD>later network) access. > needed remote dialup (and then JD>> I've never met Professor Doupnik and when we first started JD>> conversing about MS-DOS Kermit in the late 80s I was still JD>> an undergrad. So my relationship with him was as a JD>> Professor to a student. Even if he wasn't a faculty member JD>> at the University I attended. ------- I'm leaving in the above because it's one of the few nice things posted here lately. Enjoy it while ya' can folks. JD> My last word in the thread, I hope. Golly, if folks wanted JD> to please me they could omit the title and credential JD> stuff. It's kind of embarassing. I'm just a guy in the same JD> muddy trench as everyone else, and the mud is winning. Bet your mud is cleaner than the mud I used to stand in. 8) JD> Good luck Charles on making things work for you. Well thanks Joe. When you lack talent you need all the luck you can get so I'll just take this with me. I hope something changes your luck too Joe. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 07:26:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04359 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:26:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA28892 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:18:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:17:10 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 1900-01-18 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD>>> I think you've misunderstood Michel a bit here. JD> Perhaps, but I am trying to stick to issues rather than JD> people. The issues can wait, people should be first. JD> I am direct because I have little time to spend on JD> individual messages that ramble. I have discarded 95% of JD> the taunts and jabs as not worth effort to re-read, and JD> continued negative personal commments by you do not improve JD> matters. And I have been candid about the zmodem part of JD> things. JD> Please recall I pointed to the sources on my machines. Yes, I wasn't going to even get into that. The directory you specified does not exist, the files do not exist in any other directory - I looked. Neither you nor the other members of this `team' has give one correct URL but there have been quite a few that go nowhere. A Mr. Dold finally realized what was making me so furious and posted the correct URL or I wouldn't have the code even now. JD> As far as I am concerned the issues are plain enough, and JD> my response has been published on the list. I don't like JD> saying no to folks, it is not my preferred way to behave, JD> but there are limits and this item exceeds them. The above paragraph reduces to a non-statement regarding an unknown quantity referenced as `item'. JD> It's my call. I don't know what you are calling but not me I know that much. Around here you're just Joe and Joe doesn't make the calls here, I do. JD> You have sources, so please dig into them if this item is JD> that important to you. I infer by the context you are using that `item' means "the ability to access external protocols"? No Joe, the item is not that important to me. What _is_ important is getting a runaround when I ask where the source code is. All this negative feedback because of the insecurities all of you seem to be suffering from is more depressing than you can imagine. I'm not even angry anymore, I'm just saddened that your group has degenerated to this level. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 07:26:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA04362 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:26:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA28913 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:19:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:17:18 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-19 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(JeffreyAltman) said: JA> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JA> In article , JA> wrote: JA> [discussion of Michael as a wonderful person and macro JA> programming genius deleted] JA> Michael may be a fantastic macro programmer. But I do not JA> have the time to be a consultant to everyone that chooses JA> to send me several hundred lines of Kermit script. A little encouragement from the author of the program would mean the world to those who use it. You missed an opportunity to do a good thing. JA> [discussion of broken mail programs deleted] JA> If the mail programs are broken then it would make the most JA> sense to put the energy into fixing them. There are people in the demon.uk newsgroup attempting that very thing as we type and getting very similar results to mine with you. JA> Not trying to twist MS-DOS Kermit into something it was not JA> designed to be; even if it can be made to do it. If you didn't want people to _use_ the macros why were they added to the program? JA> I would be curious to see that. I use public access LYNX JA> (because it includes a very good implementation of the JA> kermit transfer) to browse websites when using MSK. JA> The Kermit implementation that Lynx uses is C-Kermit. It JA> does not have its own independent kermit implementation. It JA> simply takes advantage of the work that has already been JA> put into C-Kermit in much the same way that we advise BBS JA> operators to take advantage of the work that has been put JA> into MS-DOS Kermit. See I was right, told you it was a good implementation. 8) BTW: All BBS are not DOS based. Janis Kracht of PDN headquarters tried to install C-Kermit with her LINUX based BBBS and gave up. Her husband and son are both independent 'C' programmers and work in their home. Go figure? JA>CA> It is the same for Michel, a form of entertainment. JA>JD> I have no plans of touching zmodem file transfer JA>JD> material. It is a different universe to construct and JA>JD> that would both bloat MSK and make life confusing to JA>JD> users because of the much different command sets. JA>CA> Millions do manage both. 8) JA> What does this fact have to do with the situation at hand? Users can manage two (count 'em) protocols at the same time. JA> Professor Doupnik is the one that has to support the end JA> users of MS-DOS Kermit. He does not want to have to JA> suupport the users that will become confused. That is his JA> choice. Protecting the idiots so they don't embarass themselves trying to use 2 (count 'em) protocols? JA> [a lot of other extraneous arguments deleted] CA> What is _needed_ is no more nor less than K95 user _need_. CA> K95 needs zmodem and kermit, MSK needs the same. People are CA> people even if they aren't corporate managers with cute CA> titles. JA> I am going to try to explain the history of Kermit 95 in JA> some greater detail with the hope that people will stop JA> trying to compare MS-DOS Kermit and Kermit 95. I've reduced my request to a hook for external protocols quite some time ago. If you want to discuss K95 plugins ok, if not forget it. --8<--cut JA> When I was hired by the Kermit Project to develop a version JA> of Kermit for the forthcoming Windows 95 operating system JA> Jyrki and I made a deal. The result of the agreement was JA> that the Kermit Project would receive the source code and a JA> license to port it to Win32, but we did not have a license JA> to release the source code to the public. The copyright JA> would remain with him (or whoever he chose to sell it to.) Did he know at the time that K95 was to become a commercial venture or did he think it would remain as MSK has? JA> When I said that I put Zmodem into Kermit 95 I meant it. It implied that you wrote it. What you did was `port' it. --8<--cut JA> but using it in both. We were forced to implement JA> workarounds for this because unlike Kermit protocol Zmodem JA> did not provide for selective quoting of control characters JA> because it was designed for 8-bit clean connections. FDSZ has the '-e' switch to escape characters so it does do this now AFAIK. I have used it to download via telnet. --8<--cut JA> .. The integration of Zmodem into Kermit when the API has JA> already been written and the language is C, not assembler, JA> is a non-trivial undertaking if you are going to do it JA> correctly. And I need to persuade someone to write it for me first. JA> .. Performing Zmodem file transfers as an external add-on JA> over a raw TCP/IP connection is possible; over Telnet it JA> requires that there been a tight couplling between the JA> Zmodem engine and the Telnet engine such that using an JA> external process to handle the Zmodem will not work JA> reliably in the very environment which you wish to use it. I've done it using FDSZ many times. JA> MS-DOS Kermit is distributed as a binary for the JA> convenience of those without the necessary development JA> tools, but its primary means of distribution is in source JA> form. On what planet? It took me almost a week and I never did get the proper URL for it. Mr. Dold had to post it for me. Are you for real? --8<--cut JA> When some one comes asks us to implement a feature we JA> evaluate the feature and determine JA> (a) if we understand the request; (b) how much fun it would JA> be to refuse; (c) how much time it would take to convince JA> some fool to donate it; (d) how much is too much; (e) JA> whether it would break our code of silence; JA> Then we decide whether it is something we want to do. JA> The Zmodem question has been asked so many times over the JA> last 15 years that somebody who just walks into this forum JA> and says "Why don't you implement Zmodem" might interpret JA> the negative response as a knee jerk response. It isn't. Ah ... yes, jumping the wrong guy _is_ a knee jerk response. --8<--cut JA> Instead they pick up the phone. And call someone like me, yes. JA> To get some idea of what I think of the support you provide JA> please review JA> http://www.selfserving.com/kermit/we_r_great.html --8<--cut JA> somebody who we have never heard of before telling us what JA> we should do, I made a suggestion, get over it. JA> how easy it would be to do, I said enough for a programmer to understand what I was talking about. Obviously you did not understand. JA> and why we are jerks for saying "sorry, but no." You didn't say `sorry' and you didn't actually say `no' - you whined about it. JA> It's really too bad you didn't use this "transport layer JA> blob" phraseology with the author of WATTCP long ago. I'm JA> certain the outcome of your joint venture would have been JA> different than it has been and we wouldn't be having this JA> conversation at all. Have a nice day. JA> The separation of the WATTCP and MS-DOS Kermit code is JA> ancient history. It is improper to look at the decisions JA> that were made in 1991 given the changes that have occurred JA> in the last nine years. Your accomplishments are all `ancient history' IMO. --8<--cut JA> The reality is that given the circumstances at the time, JA> decisions were made. To try to make the case that things JA> woulld be different if only some person had known better is JA> a waste of time. I only wish Eric Engelke was here so you could refer to his WATTCP as a "transport layer blob". THAT would be funny. 8) No, on second thought, he doesn't deserve that much stress. Forget it. JA> P.S. The reason that I refer to Professor Joe Doupnik as JA> Professor Doupnik in my postings is as a sign of respect. I have nothing but respect for the accomplishment. I would give much to go back and get a PhD. It would be a great personal victory. God bless all who prevail in this. --8<--cut JA> P.P.S. Kermit 95 and a lot of C-Kermit 7.0 are the result JA> of my hard work. Someone asked how much code there is: No, I said it would be amusing to `diff' the latest version with one a year ago and see how many lines have actually changed. --8<--cut Most programmers I know don't think quite as highly of `standards bodies' as you describe in what I just deleted. I won't add or subtract from what is important to you. It seems to be meaningful to you and that is reason enough to do it. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 09:56:17 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21309 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:56:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA05508 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:35:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <011900092128not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:28:04 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hey you! Jeffrey! JA> [discussion of Michael as a wonderful person and macro programming JA> genius deleted] Professor Doupnik is the one that has to support JA> the end users of MS-DOS Kermit. He does not want to have to support JA> the users that will become confused. ...As for Michael's comments JA> that I should be a politician because of my work on Standards JA> bodies, I will take that as a compliment. You know what? My name isn't "Michael"!!! I've been given the name of Michel by my parents and I'll tell you something more... That "genius" to which you refer is born in the country - and we had cows and there's something else! Excuse this figure of speech, but the more i read from guys like you, the more it reminds me of this very bucolic, familiar and peculiar scene which most countrymen must have witnessed in their youth, routinely: i mean that very charming scene where a cow comes to a stop, takes a break... lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness around its immense eyes and then dumps a load of filth and spills a few drops! Euh... I know, that's not very distinctive of me but i guess this very surprizing flash-back was revived because of your kind words! Actually, i think that would be a result of some day-dreaming errance triggered by your warm support... I mean, i came to immagine the TRUE story of your comming into the accademic world - you'll love it!: once upon a time... after a hard childhood... you finally realized, one day, that everybody appeared to first come at you with an expression of curiosity on their face, and then, to move away as if they had experienced some bad smell. (Remember the cows?)... Meuh... Then, that's where it all fliped: you came to see a doctor, AT THE UNIVERSITY, and that's the moment when they made you realize that you have your ass-hole right just below your nose! Hence, explaining a few things... Quite certainly, you must have heard this expression very often before: Shit-Head! Euh... And do you know what more? I bet they just couldn't let you go and had no choice but to KEEP you as a chimeric, amazing creature of mother nature that you are! Hence, the academical life and the rest... %-o Now, how do you like that for a compliment? Hummm?... Congratulations for your "natural" sense of pedagogy, precious one! MoaHaHa!!! B-) X Don't forget to show that piece of appreciation to every single person i have no doubt you'll be meeting as you travel around - circus one!... I'll give you compliments! Next time you better leave me out of this if you can't think of anything else but your very own greatness... While i'm at it, it brings to the surface another of those remembrances of mine! 8-o "Politicians": from "Poly-Tics", "Poly" as in "many" and "tics" as in blood-sucking parasites... Which leads me to this: if you aren't willing to help then just don't be a nuisance to others and try a more sensitive approach while you lurk around; more finesse wouldn't do you bad, you know! Let us focus on something else, elephant one... 8-o [...] In more civilized words, i think Charles gives us a much clearer view of the picture now... and the more i read from him, the more i think he's right on target. Sing! Oh, most omnipotent confused one! Sing!!! ;-> [...] Strange but true, i'm frankly convinced now that you have no business at all addressing a DOS user here, actually! Condescendance is one of the words i read and which sounds, ho but sounds so right when i read them that i can't get it out of my mind anymore!... So, please: let us have our little, worthless business alone, OKay?!? I see no need in having such a stain like you lying around, dear wonderland hemorroid-face one! Euh... And should you wonder what i mean exactly by the "one" then just repeat in yourself my story of the cows; now a bit of your story too... Bizous partout! %-) MouaHaHa! :D )' [...] My deapest regrets to the other users but people ARE NOT playtoys! Michel Samson From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 14:56:32 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22855 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:56:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21381 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:41:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: awouk@syzygy.nilenet.com (Arthur Wouk) Subject: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Organization: NileNET, Ltd. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:31:40 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu sparcstation10 running solaris2.5.1. i downloaded the new cku196.solaris25-sparc-2.5.1. when i call the program i get the following error message: ld.so.1: kermit: fatal: libresolv.so.2: can't open file: errno=2 Killed i also brought in the same release for my sparc2 running solaris2.4 and it works like a charm. so it is not a source problem. is anyone else having a problem with this, or can anyone give me a clue as to what to do? the previous release (192) works just fine on the sparc10. -- .. the purpose of the mass media is to cultivate public stupidity and conformity in order to protect the capitalist upper classes from interference by the masses. - noam chomsky to send me email, remove 'syzygy.' from my address From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 15:26:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA28001 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:26:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA23574 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:18:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr) Subject: Re: Spin Doctors Date: 19 Jan 2000 20:14:19 GMT Organization: Universitaet Kaiserslautern Message-ID: <8655ur$egq$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: >Charles [... who entered my killfile in the meantime, without anybody noticing; you don't hear PLONKs with modern noise reduced killfiles any more :-) ...] >wants to get people to do things for him. [...] >Strategems that usually don't work include: [...] > . Endless repetition Although I agree to your post, may I respectfully remind you that Cato the Elder (and, by his example, common sense) disagrees with you here ? Ceterum censeo... :-) Regards Christoph Weber-Fahr -- -- Christoph Weber-Fahr | E-Mail: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de -------------------------- My personal opinion only --------------------- From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 15:26:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA28003 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:26:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA23038 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:06:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Date: 19 Jan 2000 20:06:23 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <8655fv$mfr$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Arthur Wouk wrote: : sparcstation10 running solaris2.5.1. i downloaded the new : cku196.solaris25-sparc-2.5.1. when i call the program i get the : following error message: : : ld.so.1: kermit: fatal: libresolv.so.2: can't open file: errno=2 : Killed : The curse of shareable libraries. Here I am logged in to Solaris 2.5.1 (Sparc): $ uname -a SunOS watsol 5.5.1 Generic_103640-31 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-1 The Kermit ftp archive happens to be NFS-mounted there; I start the exact same binary that you have: $ ~kermit/bin/cku196.solaris25-sparc-2.5.1 C-Kermit 7.0.196, 1 Jan 2000, for Solaris 2.5 Copyright (C) 1985, 2000, Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York. Type ? or HELP for help. (/amd/watsun/w/fdc/) C-Kermit> All is well. What's the difference? Y2K patches maybe? What does "ls -l /usr/lib/libresolv.*" say on your system? Here it says: $ ls -l /usr/lib/libresolv.* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root daemon [...] /usr/lib/libresolv.so -> ./libresolv.so.2 -rwxr-xr-x 1 bin bin 35564 May 21 1999 /usr/lib/libresolv.so.1 -rwxr-xr-x 1 bin bin 65700 May 21 1999 /usr/lib/libresolv.so.2 $ When all else fails, rebuild from source. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 15:26:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA28006 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:26:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA23119 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:07:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Date: 19 Jan 2000 20:07:42 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <8655ie$mib$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Arthur Wouk wrote: : sparcstation10 running solaris2.5.1. i downloaded the new : cku196.solaris25-sparc-2.5.1. when i call the program i get the : following error message: : : ld.so.1: kermit: fatal: libresolv.so.2: can't open file: errno=2 : Killed : : i also brought in the same release for my sparc2 running solaris2.4 : and it works like a charm. so it is not a source problem. is anyone : else having a problem with this, or can anyone give me a clue as to : what to do? the previous release (192) works just fine on the : sparc10. One of the differences between C-Kermit 6.0 and 7.0 is support for DNS SRV lookups. This requires access to the resolv library. It appears that the resolv library on the system on which the cku196.solaris25-sparc-2.5.1 binary was built and your sparc2 has the library named libresolv.so or libresolv.so.2 and that this file is either missing or can't be found by the loader on your sparc10. is the resolv library not installed on your sparc10 or is it named differently? Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 16:26:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10240 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:26:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA26726 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:16:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: gerlach@netcom.com (Matthew H. Gerlach) Subject: Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Date: 19 Jan 2000 20:57:55 GMT Organization: NETCOM / MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Message-ID: <8658gj$bjt$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Depending on the Solaris environment, the machines may not have been installed with DNS at all. They maybe using NIS+ for all name resolution, and the NIS+ server would be the only one with the DNS libararyies installed. Matthew In article <8655ie$mib$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, Jeffrey Altman wrote: >In article , >Arthur Wouk wrote: >: sparcstation10 running solaris2.5.1. i downloaded the new >: cku196.solaris25-sparc-2.5.1. when i call the program i get the >: following error message: >: >: ld.so.1: kermit: fatal: libresolv.so.2: can't open file: errno=2 >: Killed >: >: i also brought in the same release for my sparc2 running solaris2.4 >: and it works like a charm. so it is not a source problem. is anyone >: else having a problem with this, or can anyone give me a clue as to >: what to do? the previous release (192) works just fine on the >: sparc10. > >One of the differences between C-Kermit 6.0 and 7.0 is support for >DNS SRV lookups. This requires access to the resolv library. It >appears that the resolv library on the system on which the > > cku196.solaris25-sparc-2.5.1 > >binary was built and your sparc2 has the library named > > libresolv.so or libresolv.so.2 > >and that this file is either missing or can't be found by the loader >on your sparc10. is the resolv library not installed on your sparc10 >or is it named differently? > > Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 > The Kermit Project * Columbia University > 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 > http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 17:26:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22059 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:26:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA28848 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:56:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Date: 19 Jan 2000 21:56:35 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <865buj$s5e$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <8658gj$bjt$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, Matthew H. Gerlach wrote: : : Depending on the Solaris environment, the machines may not have been : installed with DNS at all. They maybe using NIS+ for all name resolution, : and the NIS+ server would be the only one with the DNS libararyies installed. : : Matthew IN those environments how does an applicationperform the equivalent of the res_search() resolv library call? In the meantime, C-Kermit 7.0 can be compiled with -DNO_DNS_SRV to avoid the calls to res_search(). Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 18:26:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04036 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:26:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA03335 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:16:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: gerlach@netcom.com (Matthew H. Gerlach) Subject: Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Date: 19 Jan 2000 23:11:09 GMT Organization: NETCOM / MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Message-ID: <865gad$d56$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I don't claim to be an expert at this, but looking at the man pages on my Solaris box, the res_search() function essentially calls the DNS stuff directly. The function, gethostbyname(), is a more appropriate higher level function. gethostbyname() will get the info based on the "hosts" entry in /etc/nsswitch.conf. This entry allows one to specify, files, nis, nisplus, and/or dns to resolve names. It would be interesting for the original poster to show us their /etc/nsswitch.conf file to confirm or deny my theory to the problem. Matthew In article <865buj$s5e$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, Jeffrey Altman wrote: >In article <8658gj$bjt$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, >Matthew H. Gerlach wrote: >: >: Depending on the Solaris environment, the machines may not have been >: installed with DNS at all. They maybe using NIS+ for all name resolution, >: and the NIS+ server would be the only one with the DNS libararyies installed. >: >: Matthew > >IN those environments how does an applicationperform the equivalent >of the res_search() resolv library call? > >In the meantime, C-Kermit 7.0 can be compiled with -DNO_DNS_SRV to >avoid the calls to res_search(). > > > Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 > The Kermit Project * Columbia University > 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 > http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 18:26:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04038 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:26:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA03819 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:25:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Date: 19 Jan 2000 23:25:32 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <865h5c$3n9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <865gad$d56$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, Matthew H. Gerlach wrote: : : I don't claim to be an expert at this, but looking at the man pages : on my Solaris box, the res_search() function essentially calls the : DNS stuff directly. The function, gethostbyname(), is a more appropriate : higher level function. gethostbyname() will get the info based : on the "hosts" entry in /etc/nsswitch.conf. This entry allows one to : specify, files, nis, nisplus, and/or dns to resolve names. : It would be interesting for the original poster to show us their : /etc/nsswitch.conf file to confirm or deny my theory to the problem. : : Matthew That would be a correct assessment if we were calling res_search() to perform the equivalent functionality provided by gethostbyname() or gethostbyaddr(). Instead of reading CNAME or A records from the DNS we are reading SRV and TXT records which are used to store other types of information such as on which port does the named service use on the specified host? or provide the Realm assigned to a specified hostname? These questions must be answered by querying DNS via the res_search() function. If there NIS+ pushes these queries off to a server that is fine, the question is how do we perform the push? Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 19:26:23 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13715 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:26:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA06300 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:15:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Ric Anderson Subject: Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:03:46 -0700 Organization: The University of Arizona Message-ID: <388650E2.2D355F45@opus1.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Chances are that the person who built kermit had the current recommended patch cluster installed on their machine and you don't have the current patch cluster installed on yours. libresolv.so.2 is part of Sun patch 103663-15, and may have been in earlier revisions of 103663 as well. The current recommended patch cluster which includes 103663 is available via ftp from ftp://sunsolve.sun.com/pub/patches/2.5.1_Recommended.tar.Z Cheers, Ric Anderson (ric@opus1.com) Arthur Wouk wrote: > > sparcstation10 running solaris2.5.1. i downloaded the new > cku196.solaris25-sparc-2.5.1. when i call the program i get the > following error message: > > ld.so.1: kermit: fatal: libresolv.so.2: can't open file: errno=2 > Killed > > i also brought in the same release for my sparc2 running solaris2.4 > and it works like a charm. so it is not a source problem. is anyone > else having a problem with this, or can anyone give me a clue as to > what to do? the previous release (192) works just fine on the > sparc10. > > -- > .. the purpose of the mass media is to cultivate public stupidity and > conformity in order to protect the capitalist upper classes from interference > by the masses. - noam chomsky > to send me email, remove 'syzygy.' from my address From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 19:56:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16629 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:56:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA06873 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:30:07 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Spin Doctors From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:24:52 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-19 weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de(ChristophWeber-Fahr) said: dWEEBR>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc dWEEBR>Hi, dWEEBR>fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: dWEEBR>Although I agree to your post, may I respectfully remind you that dWEEBR>Cato the Elder (and, by his example, common sense) disagrees with dWEEBR>you here ? dWEEBR>Ceterum censeo... :-) Et tu Brute? Taurus feces me amicus. Caius the Younger From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 19 19:56:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16631 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA06886 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:30:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:24:57 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-19 not-2-disclose@the.net said: N2>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Hello Michel - I feel that I owe you an apology. I suggested that we might find information here to enhance our enjoyment of MSKermit as it can be done with `legacy' hardware by accessing this newsgroup. Obviously I could not have made a worse choice if I had been on medication at the time. I had forgotten how cloistered an envirnment these people live in that prevents them from interacting with real people in the real world. --8<--cut N2> Strange but true, i'm frankly convinced now that you have N2> no business at all addressing a DOS user here, actually! Turns out you are absolutely correct Michel. These two have had little or nothing to do with the DOS MSK program and probably never actually read the code. If they _did_ read it they would not know what a large part of it is there to accomplish. Truth is if you notice what they have said about this entire project they received instruction for the TCP/IP stack from Eric Engelke and the zmodem in K95 was given by another. They never actually wrote anything but the `glue' to patch other peoples work into one executable. One of the `perks' of being an employee of a University is the ability to assign projects to young people and then steal the results and put your name on it. I doubt either of them can write a minor utility let alone a `C-Kermit' package. They probably change a few dozen lines a year when a student makes a good suggestion. I wonder if they type it in themselves or have it done as an assignment? I have been informed by another professor that there really is no `team' here. MSK is and was developed by Joe D. at Utah while the others are in N.Y. at Columbia. Joe I feel somewhat differently about. He at least _cares_ about MSKermit and quite adamantly at that. I can't fault a man who is protective of his creation and wants it to be viewed in the best possible way. I also doubt that the other two have been any less condescending regarding MSK than they seem to be about DOS users in general. Joe has had many years of this. It must be tiring if not extemely annoying. N2> Condescendance is one of the words i read and which sounds, N2> ho but sounds so right when i read them that i can't get it N2> out of my mind anymore!... So, please: let us have our N2> little, worthless business alone, OKay?!? It would be interesting to see what would happen if these two were stranded somewhere in the real world and made the mistake of talking to the local residents. 8) I suspect they stay on campus and brow beat other peoples children where it's safe. --8<--cut N2> My deapest regrets to the other users but people ARE NOT N2> playtoys! I too regret my suggestion to communicate here. I had hoped there were other normal people here with an interest in MSK but it seems we are alone in this. I have been told that I may have been unkind to Mr. Dold who was nice enough to point me to the _correct_ URL for the MSK source code. I was getting quite a bit of nonsense from `the team' at the time and in trying to add a positive note to all this I became a bit annoyed with him and was not kind in my reply. I regret this also. Under other circumstances I would not have made this mistake. Mr. Shapiro and Mr. Dold and others have been very patient with all of this ruckus and I do appreciate their efforts to assist. As for this newsgroup itself it seems to have little to do with `support'. There is someone at Columbia that these little men must answer to whose job is to make them behave and when I determine who that person is I will email him or her with my observations regarding their lack of interest and bad manners. I don't think Columbia University needs people like this in a public forum and I don't think Columbia would disagree. Take care Michel - Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 20 01:26:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09207 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 01:26:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA23770 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 01:22:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: awouk@syzygy.nilenet.com (Arthur Wouk) Subject: Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Organization: NileNET, Ltd. Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 06:15:42 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu here it is. (i bought this machine used, with os installed by the previous owner. it may be that i should re-install the full operating system before upgrading kermit - but that gets me into the prior hardware upgrades needed and move to solaris2.6 - which i am working on.) In article <865gad$d56$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, Matthew H. Gerlach wrote: > >I don't claim to be an expert at this, but looking at the man pages >on my Solaris box, the res_search() function essentially calls the >DNS stuff directly. The function, gethostbyname(), is a more appropriate >higher level function. gethostbyname() will get the info based >on the "hosts" entry in /etc/nsswitch.conf. This entry allows one to >specify, files, nis, nisplus, and/or dns to resolve names. >It would be interesting for the original poster to show us their >/etc/nsswitch.conf file to confirm or deny my theory to the problem. > # # /etc/nsswitch.files: # # An example file that could be copied over to /etc/nsswitch.conf; it # does not use any naming service. # # "hosts:" and "services:" in this file are used only if the # /etc/netconfig file has a "-" for nametoaddr_libs of "inet" transports. passwd: files group: files hosts: files dns networks: files protocols: files rpc: files ethers: files netmasks: files bootparams: files publickey: files # At present there isn't a 'files' backend for netgroup; the system will # figure it out pretty quickly, and won't use netgroups at all. netgroup: files automount: files aliases: files services: files sendmailvars: files -- .. the purpose of the mass media is to cultivate public stupidity and conformity in order to protect the capitalist upper classes from interference by the masses. - noam chomsky to send me email, remove 'syzygy.' from my address From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 20 03:26:42 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA17063 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 03:26:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA27982 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 03:23:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fred smith Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Organization: None! Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 03:04:29 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Now children, enough name-calling, lets get back to our studies now. This newsgroup is for discussion of kermit, not for namecalling and unnecessary rudeness. Please terminate the childish behavior. Fred PS Followups will be directed to /dev/null. ---------------- not-2-disclose@the.net wrote: : Hey you! Jeffrey! : JA> [discussion of Michael as a wonderful person and macro programming : JA> genius deleted] Professor Doupnik is the one that has to support : JA> the end users of MS-DOS Kermit. He does not want to have to support : JA> the users that will become confused. ...As for Michael's comments : JA> that I should be a politician because of my work on Standards : JA> bodies, I will take that as a compliment. : You know what? My name isn't "Michael"!!! I've been given the name of : Michel by my parents and I'll tell you something more... That "genius" : to which you refer is born in the country - and we had cows and there's : something else! Excuse this figure of speech, but the more i read from : guys like you, the more it reminds me of this very bucolic, familiar and : peculiar scene which most countrymen must have witnessed in their youth, : routinely: i mean that very charming scene where a cow comes to a stop, : takes a break... lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness around : its immense eyes and then dumps a load of filth and spills a few drops! : Euh... I know, that's not very distinctive of me but i guess this very : surprizing flash-back was revived because of your kind words! Actually, : i think that would be a result of some day-dreaming errance triggered by : your warm support... I mean, i came to immagine the TRUE story of your : comming into the accademic world - you'll love it!: once upon a time... : after a hard childhood... you finally realized, one day, that everybody : appeared to first come at you with an expression of curiosity on their : face, and then, to move away as if they had experienced some bad smell. : (Remember the cows?)... Meuh... Then, that's where it all fliped: you : came to see a doctor, AT THE UNIVERSITY, and that's the moment when they : made you realize that you have your ass-hole right just below your nose! : Hence, explaining a few things... Quite certainly, you must have heard : this expression very often before: Shit-Head! Euh... And do you know : what more? I bet they just couldn't let you go and had no choice but to : KEEP you as a chimeric, amazing creature of mother nature that you are! : Hence, the academical life and the rest... %-o : Now, how do you like that for a compliment? Hummm?... Congratulations : for your "natural" sense of pedagogy, precious one! MoaHaHa!!! B-) X : Don't forget to show that piece of appreciation to every single person i : have no doubt you'll be meeting as you travel around - circus one!... : I'll give you compliments! Next time you better leave me out of this if : you can't think of anything else but your very own greatness... : While i'm at it, it brings to the surface another of those remembrances : of mine! 8-o "Politicians": from "Poly-Tics", "Poly" as in "many" and : "tics" as in blood-sucking parasites... Which leads me to this: if you : aren't willing to help then just don't be a nuisance to others and try a : more sensitive approach while you lurk around; more finesse wouldn't do : you bad, you know! Let us focus on something else, elephant one... 8-o : [...] : In more civilized words, i think Charles gives us a much clearer view of : the picture now... and the more i read from him, the more i think he's : right on target. Sing! Oh, most omnipotent confused one! Sing!!! ;-> : [...] : Strange but true, i'm frankly convinced now that you have no business at : all addressing a DOS user here, actually! Condescendance is one of the : words i read and which sounds, ho but sounds so right when i read them : that i can't get it out of my mind anymore!... So, please: let us have : our little, worthless business alone, OKay?!? I see no need in having : such a stain like you lying around, dear wonderland hemorroid-face one! : Euh... And should you wonder what i mean exactly by the "one" then just : repeat in yourself my story of the cows; now a bit of your story too... : Bizous partout! %-) : MouaHaHa! :D )' : [...] : My deapest regrets to the other users but people ARE NOT playtoys! : Michel Samson -- ---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us ---------------------------- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. ------------------------------ Philippians 4:13 ------------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 20 05:56:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA28162 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:56:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA03145 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 05:41:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <012000052518not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:36:06 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi Charles, CA> I feel that I owe you an apology. I suggested that we might find CA> information here to enhance our enjoyment of MSKermit as it can be CA> done with `legacy' hardware by accessing this newsgroup. That's all right Charles. :-) Only fools would believe they can't make a mistake... it's just that the wrong set of people thought they had to address us, in place of the real `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' team... My true disapointment is that we seen very little of the `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' team so far! :-( The fault isn't yours at all, it's theirs... >:-7 CA> Obviously I could not have made a worse choice if I had been on CA> medication at the time. It's a chance you weren't - there's enough people on medication already! (Like this soldier from the heaven who just jumped in - in his very own style - and who now wants to be the one who will end the hostilities)... %-> CA> I had forgotten how cloistered an environment these people live in CA> that prevents them from interacting with real people in the real CA> world. Ha! Talk about preconceptions - i had my own hopes!... 8-o Me who was under the impression that i'd get "rational" answers!!! Instead, what i got was a quick attempt that was supposed to intimidate me, then make me feel guilty: big things/tiny program, memory restrictions, you want it you do it, money & work, donate/contribute, worthy audience, spoofing... and, of course, this is THE ONE and ONLY ONE so-called `Kermit' project! Boy, it's the same classical technique we encounter in every day on-line customer-assistance "service": you think it can help until you try it! CA> These two have had little or nothing to do with the DOS MSK program CA> and probably never actually read the code. If they _did_ read it... Yeah. You introduce yourself politely... pose a few questions around & include everything they might need, before they ask... then, a dance of self-justifications begins!... Moreover, i can't see where i wrote that i was only talking to *them* instead of any reader of this ~NG~, present and future... What would make those people from the `Win 9x' task force believe they're so important i'm forced to address them?!? Go figure!!! CA> Truth is if you notice what they have said... They never actually CA> wrote anything but the `glue' to patch other peoples work... Glue?! Then it puts them at the same level as my own all right! P-D )' The difference is that i would never try to put my name where it doesn't belong! My "GlueWare" is free for all to try (i.e. use it if it suits)! P-) Euh... Frankly, i don't really care how much of their fame they owned, it's the despicable way in which they insisted to agitate such trophees under my nose that i find too irritating for my taste. It's like saying "dady is big, listen to dady!"... It looks and feels bad and it doesn't open the way to discussions nor does it, taken alone, add to the topic. CA> One of the `perks' of being an employee of a University is the CA> ability to assign projects to young people and then steal the CA> results and put your name on it. I have been informed by another CA> professor that there really is no `team' here. Yeah, when i step back and return to the hole series of correspondance i begin to view this with some new insight as i go on with such reading... Interresting theory, it would explain why my mention about PUBLIC DOMAIN `ZmoDem' programs would find *NO ECHO AT ALL* on their side, euh... But who cares! That's not the right side anyway!: they're `Win 9x' people! Remember?!... ;-> Euh... But i wonder, would they dare to reclaim the rights on a "donated" `MS-DOS Kermit' `ZmoDem' add-on, eventually?! 8-o CA> MSK is and was developed by Joe D. at Utah... Joe I feel somewhat CA> differently about. I can't fault a man who is protective of his CA> creation and wants it to be viewed in the best possible way. Sure! When you consider that `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' will run happily on a PC that's more than fifteen years old and to a point that it will make those blunt `Windows' users blush of envy as you relate to them the kind of D/L rate one gets on a mid-range "legacy" PC, euh... I have no doubt pr. J. Doupnik _does_ have every reason to be proud! Like you've wrote, it was once believed that a big enough engine will make anything fly and `Win 9x' users have the same credo - just the opposite of what i praise! Moreover, that kind of "consumer profile" that we can observe in so many `Win' users makes me wonder: `MS-Kermit' has got quite an extended life span already... i'd be currious to see what the `Win 9x Kermit' version will look like in that many years! Maybe, the holly powers who preside in the `Win 9x Kermit' "team" aren't going to get a piece of eternity which shall last for that long at all! ;-> I bet they won't! CA> Joe has had many years of this. It must be tiring... I guess that's the best explanation i seen so far as to why he would be so discreet. Now that the others got the best of me - to the point that i loose my temper - i fear J. Doupnik may believe i'm the same breed of monster!... %-) So much for an ~NG~ which, i supposed, was there to ease contacts! :-( MS> Condescendance is one of the words i read and which sounds, ho but MS> sounds so right when i read them... CA> It would be interesting to see what would happen if these two were CA> stranded somewhere in the real world and made the mistake of talking CA> to the local residents. I suspect they stay on campus and brow beat CA> other peoples children where it's safe. Ha! Ha! :-) If that would be a crowd populated with persons who are less "moderate" than i usually try to be, i bet they'd have to seek refuge in a church! ;-> MS> My deapest regrets to the other users but people ARE NOT playtoys! CA> I had hoped there were other normal people here with an interest in CA> MSK but it seems we are alone in this. As i wrote, this place has got the best of us already and i'm not one to become impatient so easily... Only, it's most depressing to find myself having such _poor_ conversations with guys who stand where i thought one should expect to encounter some of the noticeable brains ot the planet! Euh... But it gets me back to the history of the cow... A cow standing right there where they can put their feet would still be a cow!... %-7 Hummm... I almost feel guilty for being so hard on them - or am i? :-o [...] CA> Under other circumstances I would not have made this mistake. CA> Mr. Shapiro and Mr. Dold and others have been very patient... Believe this: me neither, me neither! %-7 I can regret that i had so little time for focusing my attention right on target but what's done is done... Speaking of which, have you seen any mention of the source-code for `MS-DOS Kermit v3.16 Beta'? Because, i sure did not notice!... 8-o Is `MS-Kermit' supposed to have died on September 1997 or what??? CA> There is someone at Columbia that these little men must answer to CA> whose job is to make them behave and when I determine who that CA> person is I will email him or her with my observations regarding CA> their lack of interest and bad manners. I'd have about the same observations to send him/her, that's for sure... CA> I don't think Columbia University needs people like this in a public CA> forum and I don't think Columbia would disagree. My feeling as well. In any event, any reader which wants to have a full overview of what happened here recently only needs to go to one of those ~NG~ archive sites where they keep postings for many years. Anyone with a brain and some spare time can browse thru it all and have his very own conclusions - and i certainly have no hesitation when it comes to stand by my past and future writings - no problem... :-) They can delete to their heart's content but it won't change anything. >:-) Those who are browsing the ~WEB~ in text-mode using `Lynx' can even gather a ~UseNet~ version of all that's been posted here on www.dejanews.com, meaning that one should also be able to retrieve past listings in original format... Why the hell do they think i tried to make my posts the way they are?!? Certainly not for the `Win' team but the `MS-Kermit' users themselves! ;-) [...] Your posts are a warming support to me, Charles! ;-) Thanks a lot. :) Soon, i'll try to peek at what i missed lately, when the dust settles... Best salutations, Michel Samson ************************************************************************ * Peculiar bucolic scene: a cow comes to a stop, takes a break... * * lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness around its immense * * eyes and then... and then pinch your nose and run for your life! * * * * A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task force. * ************************************************************************ From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 20 12:26:30 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27877 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA23156 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:23:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Bootstrapping CP/M Kermit .... Organization: Pacifier Online From: mikef@pacifier.com (Mike Freeman) Message-ID: <3887445b.0@news.pacifier.com> Date: 20 Jan 2000 09:22:35 PST To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <948121940.19822.0.nnrp-11.9e983d0c@news.demon.co.uk>, Paul Bigwood wrote: >Hi, > >Many years ago I remember seeing a program ( 8080 ASM CP/M code) to >bootstrap Kermit using DDT under CP/M. > >I'd like to locate the program again if anyone can recall it or any pointers >to suitable source. This machine is an AMSTRAD >8256 with those funny 3" floppy drives. I've got a CP/M operating system >disk and SID ( CP/M 3 replacement for DDT.) on the machine. No Basic so the >boostrap code in the Kermit manual is no good. > >I've downloaded the AMSTRAD 8256 Kermit version from Columbia, but of course >can't get it into the machine. > Hmmm ... seems to me the Amstrad uses CP/M 3.0 (AKA CPM Plus). This has AUXIN and AUXOUT devices which are, as I recall, equivalent to the RDR and PUN devices on Cp/M 2.2. In any event, under Cp/M Plus, they're easily mapped to the I/O ports. It's a fairly straightforward to write a ASM program which opens the output file (the hex file), sends a string telling the remote to type the Amstrad hex file, then pol for characters on AUXIN, writing them to the output file until a terminating character (which would be the prompt of the host computer doing the typing). I don't have a CP/M machine here at the moment but could write you such a program using an emulator here and send you the source. Alternatively, if I remember correctly, PIP had "IN:" and "out:" DEVICES. You could write a file to issue the type command to the remote machine and send it out PIP, as in A>PIP OUT:=COMMAND.TXT where COMMAND.TXT would contain the line "TYPE CPVHEA.HEX" or whatever hex file has the Amstrad kermit in it. Then you could do a A>PIP CPVHEA.HEX=IN: and grab the hex file from the remote. This assumes, as I say, that you've mapped OUT to the output port and IN to the input port. Good luck! Mike Freeman; Internet: mikef@pacifier.com; Amateur Radio Callsign: K7UIJ /* PGP2.6.2 Public Key available via my ".plan" file */ "Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits." -- Mark Twain From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 20 12:26:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA27879 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:26:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA22823 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 12:15:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Message-ID: <3887C038.9B555184@willow.iie.pz.zgora.pl> From: Michal Organization: Technical University of Zielona Gora Subject: MNP Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:12:51 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi, I have been trying to establish an MNP connection for some days ago, but unfortunately I did not succeed. However, I have not given up yet. In this email I'd like to share with you all these problems I faced. First of all, I cannot find any documentation which describes how to perform MNP training, starting from the phase of exchanging ODPs/ADPs, and finishing when the first link-request PDU should be transmitted by the originating modem. As there is said in the ITU V.42 recommendation the originator should start sending the ODPs and examine incoming bit stream from the answering modem. The ODP for LAP-M is defined as "EC" and "E(Null)"when no error-correcting protocol is desired. If no ADPs have been received within 750 ms (default) the calling modem can check whether there is a presence of an alternative error-correcting protocol, in this case - MNP. At this point I get confused. This is not clear for me if a remote end supporting MNP sends any ADPs, or there is another way to detect the presence of this protocol. Anyway, I could check that some remote modems send "EM" (after converting to the synchronous form) if MNP has been chosen on these modems. Obviously I am not sure if these letters mean that the answering modem is capable of supporting MNP, since I do not have any paper saying so. I would be very appreciate if you could explain to me how the "MNP" ADP is defined, and where I can find some information on it. My second question is quite simple, I think. Namely, as you know, when a LAP-M connection has been established, and no data is being sent, the start/stop flags should be transmitted (0x7e). What in case of MNP? I guess that when bit-oriented mode (synchronous) has been selected, 0x7e's are to be transmitted as well. But what if octet-oriented mode (asynchronous) has been chosen? I could not find any notes on this anywhere, anyway I suppose that empty frames shall be transmitted. Another problem is the structure of these frames - do not know where to find any description. Additionally, I'd like to make sure that the default framing mode is the octet-oriented one (used when sending the first LR PDU, and it is valid at least till the protocol establishment phase is completed; it can be changed during the protocol negotiation phase). Could you please answer and make comments to these questions above? I am looking forward to receiving your answers soon. Please reply to my email address as well (mailto:mpolak@willow.iie.pz.zgora.pl) Best regards, Michal From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 20 17:56:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09305 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:56:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA10719 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:52:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Announcing C-Kermit 7.0 Date: 20 Jan 2000 22:52:03 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <8683ij$aet$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu This is to announce C-Kermit 7.0, the first new release since version 6.0 was announced here in September 1996. For those who don't know, C-Kermit is communications software that: . runs on many platforms: VOS, Unix, VMS, etc. . works with many communication methods (serial and network) and that offers: . interactive online terminal sessions . file transfer . character-set translation and scripting to allow automation of anything you could do by hand. C-Kermit 7.0 has been fully adapted to VOS by David Lane of Atlanta GA, lane@watsun.cc.columbia.edu. You can find it at: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html C-Kermit 7.0 can serve as the VOS end for Kermit file transfer when you come in to VOS from a terminal emulator that supports Kermit protocol, and it can also make connections from VOS to other computers by dialing out, by Telnet, or with X.25. We have VOS binaries ready-made for VOS 14.0.1 on the Continuum in four configurations: 1. For VOS systems with no networking installed. 2. For VOS systems with TCP/IP installed. 3. For VOS systems with X.25 installed. 4. For VOS systems with TCP/IP and X.25 installed. You can find them in the binaries list: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html#binlist This is a step up from C-Kermit 6.0, in which we did not have configuration-specific binaries. We still would like to collect binaries for the other archictures (mc68k and i860) and for older VOS versions (12.x.x, 13.x.x); you'll need the VOS ANSI C compiler, and if you also have TCP/IP and/or X.25 developer tools (headers, libraries) that would be even better. The more binaries and configurations the better. That way, VOS sites that don't have the developer tools can still get an appropriate C-Kermit binary. Thanks! Frank da Cruz The Kermit Project Columbia University From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 20 18:26:34 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA15105 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:26:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA12298 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:23:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #12: C-Kermit's Telnet Client Date: 20 Jan 2000 23:23:13 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <8685d1$c07$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu These days it seems that blessings are always mixed. Everything's a tradeoff. The evolution of the Telnet protocol is no exception. Primarily to accommodate modern demands for security, the original simple protocol set forth in RFC854 (1983) is no longer sufficient. C-Kermit 7.0 includes a fully modern Telnet implementation, complete with tradeoffs. On the plus side, the C-Kermit Telnet client can handle authentication securely using any of several different authentication methods, and it can also encrypt your session and it can verify the identity of the host you are connecting to (more about this in future installments). On the minus side, initial connection can take a bit longer than before because there's more to negotiate, and because of the time taken by reverse Domain Name Service (DNS) lookups, which client and/or server might initiate. Sometimes connections can take a LOT longer. The most common causes of long delays are: . The reverse DNS lookup done by the target host. If the computer you are Telnetting from is not registered in DNS, the host might wait a minute or two before deciding it's not going to get an answer to its DNS lookup. The same thing happens no matter what Telnet client you use. The only remedy is to ensure your computer is registered in DNS. . The reverse DNS lookup done by C-Kermit itself. As above but in the other direction. C-Kermit's lookup not only checks the host's identity but identifies which host you have actually reached in case the address you gave was that of a host pool. But if this service prevents you from making the connection at all, or makes the process intolerably slow, you can suppress it with SET TCP REVERSE-LOOKUP OFF; the tradeoff is that you might not know which host you actually reached. . The Telnet server is not replying to messages that require a reply. This tends to occur mainly with older Telnet servers, but also can happen with new ones that are improperly coded. In this case, Kermit eventually times out after several minutes and tells you what went wrong so you can fix or work around the problem. Or you can you can (at your own risk) include the new /NOWAIT switch in your TELNET or SET HOST command: C-Kermit> telnet /nowait oldmini.xyzcorp.com The risk is that client and server might have conflicting ideas about certain parameters are supposed to agree, which can result in fractured sessions (or worse if you are trying to make a secure connection; more about this in a future posting). These hints should get you past any new difficulties you might have experienced when upgrading to C-Kermit 7.0 from prior versions. Of course there is much more to tell. C-Kermit's Telnet protocol intepreter has been entirely redesigned and recoded to handle most modern options, and to give you total and detailed control over negotiation policies and actions for each option. It also offers expanded debugging capabities for troubleshooting. The full story can be found in: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/f/telnet.txt Before leaving the topic of Telnet, let's recall some of the advantages of C-Kermit over the regular System Telnet client on Unix, VMS, etc: . It is more configurable than System Telnet. . It can transfer files over the Telnet connection. . It can translate character sets. . It can be scripted. . It can also be used for other kinds of connections. And so on. Given the advantages, why not not use C-Kermit as your only Telnet client? One answer might be "because the command-line syntax is different." For example, maybe you have a Web browser whose "helper" for Telnet links is hardwired to be System Telnet, with a command line like: telnet host [ port ] No worries! C-Kermit 7.0 has a new feature called "command line personalities", one of which is "telnet". Watch this (Unix example): $ whereis telnet /usr/bin/telnet $ cd /usr/bin $ mv telnet systemtelnet $ ln -s /usr/local/bin/kermit telnet (The same effect is achieved if you leave System Telnet alone, but place the telnet -> kermit link ahead of System Telnet in the PATH.) Now C-Kermit *is* Telnet and it responds to the regular Telnet command line: telnet host [ port ] as System Telnet would. And, like System Telnet, if you invoke it this way, it exits automatically when the connection is closed. But unlike Telnet, you can still use it to transfer files, execute scripts, and all the rest. For more information about command-line personalities, see Section 9.1 of ckermit2.txt. Finally, a word about scripting Telnet connections. If the Telnet server supports the Telnet protocol feature that lets the client supply your user ID automatically, you might find that a login: (Username:, etc) prompt is not issued; the server goes straight to the Password prompt. Alternatively, (and even more confusingly) it might print the login or username prompt, but then fill in your username for you and then print the Password prompt. In case your script was not expecting such behavior, you can prevent C-Kermit from sending your user ID to the server by including the following command in your script: set login userid before the SET HOST command that makes the connection (you'll also need to do this if your user ID on the target is not the same as your local one). Then your old script should work as before. You can also recode any Telnet script to adapt automatically to the presence or absence of a login: (Username:) prompt using MINPUT rather than INPUT. For a sample C-Kermit 7.0 Telnet "Kerbang script", see: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/scripts/ckermit/autotelnet in the C-Kermit scripts library. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 20 20:26:36 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10025 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:26:35 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA18380 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:19:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: m.arriaga@ip.pt Subject: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:40:34 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <8689u0$vdo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hello, everyone. I am using C-Kermit 7.0 on a Linux computer and MS-Kermit 3.16b7 on a PC running DOS; the two machines are connected via a nullmodem cable. I need to transfer rather large text files between the two, and these files contain text in Portuguese (I use ISO-8859-1 on the linux box and the correspondent codepage in the PC); I have read that Kermit is capable of translating from one character set to the other one, but how can I do this? Currently my (plain text) files loose all the accented characters... but the rest is fine, so I guess the connection itself is set up correctly. Thank you very much for your attention. Best regards, Manuel Arriaga Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 20 20:26:36 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10027 for ; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:26:36 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA18567 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:22:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation Date: 21 Jan 2000 01:22:59 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <868cdj$i45$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <8689u0$vdo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : Hello, everyone. : : I am using C-Kermit 7.0 on a Linux computer and MS-Kermit 3.16b7 on a : PC running DOS; the two machines are connected via a nullmodem cable. : : I need to transfer rather large text files between the two, and these : files contain text in Portuguese (I use ISO-8859-1 on the linux box and : the correspondent codepage in the PC); I have read that Kermit is : capable of translating from one character set to the other one, but how : can I do this? Currently my (plain text) files loose all the accented : characters... but the rest is fine, so I guess the connection itself is : set up correctly. : Tell PC Kermit to: set file character-set cp437 (or whatever code page you are using) set transfer character-set latin1 Be careful -- there are at least 4 different code pages on the PC that can be used for Portuguese. You have to tell Kermit which one is used. Tell C-Kermit to: set file character-set latin1 set transfer character-set latin1 Then transfer the file in text mode. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 04:26:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA12886 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 04:26:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id EAA08975 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 04:16:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:16:20 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-20 not-2-disclose@the.net said: N2>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc --8<--cut N2>Believe this: me neither, me neither! %-7 I can regret that i N2>had so little time for focusing my attention right on target but N2>what's done is done... Speaking of which, have you seen any N2>mention of the source-code for `MS-DOS Kermit v3.16 Beta'? Because, N2>i sure did not notice!... 8-o No v316 code at the URLs I was told about. --8<--cut It was nothing productive. 8( Take Care - > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 06:56:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA22360 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 06:56:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA05395 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 06:39:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <012100062938not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:34:37 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi Charles, This "short" message is to tell you that i scrutinized the Columbia site quite a bit and it's only after a few hours of browsing and reading that i, euh... finally gave up!!! In a moment when i thought of nothing but to flip the switch, i tried the site of Joe Doupnik; i didn't find any source-code for the current version neither but i learned with surprize that there's a Beta v8 out there and it's been for some time! Look at: ftp://netlab2.usu.edu/KERMIT/MSK316B8.EXE Also, somehere when i began to explore the Columbia site (in vain), i found out that the reason why i thought pr. Joe Doupnik was so "quiet" is because all his messages simply don't make it to my news server!!! Euh... At 1st, when i started seeing the quotes of his posts but never the originals, i thought those were simple exerpts from some ~E-Mails~; it turns out that my ~ISP~ is at fault... Talk about convenient timing for going berzerk! :-7 Anyway. My long hours passed at looking into the Columbia site gave me the opportunity to find a place where they collect all the messages posted here, i tried to go thru a few Mb of it and still haven't found those messages on "Read"/"Output" and to which a reference was made here, previously... :( Hummm... That's how it is. Well, i leave you on this. I know you weren't lucky with `Kermit' v3.16 Beta 1 - maybe the version #8 will do you good!... ;-) Good luck Have a nice day! :) Michel Samson From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 13:26:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26675 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:26:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA24730 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:09:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing Date: 21 Jan 2000 18:09:01 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86a7bt$o4o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Reminder: These case studies and tutorials are also available on the C-Kermit web page: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html#studies You might prefer to read them there, where you can follow links conveniently. For years, people have been asking us how to use C-Kermit as their PPP dialer in Linux and other kinds of Unix. Until now, there has never been a good answer. There were some half-good answers, such as those found in item 27 of the Kermit FAQ. The problem was that any connection opened by C-Kermit would be closed when it exited, so C-Kermit had to be kept alive (even though it wasn't doing anything) for the duration of the PPP connection. C-Kermit 7.0 includes a new command that handles PPP dialing in a natural and straightforward way: EXEC [ /REDIRECT ] [ [ [ ... ] ] Runs the given command with the arguments in such a way that the replaces C-Kermit in memory, and C-Kermit ceases to execute. EXEC is like RUN, except instead of returning to C-Kermit when finished, the returns to whatever process invoked Kermit. In the normal case, no files are closed, so the EXEC'd command inherits the open files, read/write pointers, working directory, process ID, user ID (unless is SUID), group ID (unless command is SGID), groups, etc; in UNIX, the EXEC command is simply a front end for the execvp() system service. If the /REDIRECT switch is included, then if a connection is open (SET LINE or SET HOST), it becomes the standard input and output of the EXEC'd program. This is how PPP dialing is done. Here's an example for Linux, in which we dial a traditional terminal server that issues a login and password prompt (as opposed to, say, using PAP or CHAP authentication). We assume that the script has already set up the myuserid and mypassword variables (normally the password should be prompted for, not stored on disk). set modem type usr ; Specify the kind of modem you have set line /dev/ttyS1 ; Specify the device it's connected to set speed 57600 ; and the speed set flow rts/cts ; and flow control. set dial retries 100 ; Try the dial sequence up to 100 times. dial {{+1(212)555-1212}{+1(212)555-1213}{+1(212)9-555-1214}} if fail exit 1 for \%i 1 16 1 { ; Try up to 16 times to get login prompt input 10 Login: ; Wait 10 sec for it to appear if success break ; Got it - proceed... output \13 ; Send a carriage return and try again } if ( > \%i 16 ) exit 1 NO LOGIN PROMPT lineout \(myuserid) ; Send user ID input 30 assword: ; Wait for Password prompt if fail stop 1 NO PASSWORD PROMPT lineout \m(mypassword) ; Send the password. exec /redirect pppd ; Replace ourselves with pppd. Just before the "exec" command, you might also need to send a command to the terminal server that tells it to start PPP; some terminal servers always start PPP, some give you a choice of Telnet, Rlogin, PPP, SLIP, LAT, and/or other services. Notice the advantages over the well-known "chat script": . You don't have to control the modem itself with AT commands; Kermit's DIAL command does this for you. . You can have Kermit automatically redial automatically as many times as you want until it gets a connection (if that is legal in your country); in this example, three numbers are dialed up to 100 times each. . You can have Kermit fetch the number or numbers from a dialing directory. . You can have Kermit cycle through a list of phone numbers without having to enter the numbers in a dialing directory, as shown above. . Dialing is location-independent; you can use the same script to dial from different areas or countries. . Once the connection is made, the full power of Kermit's script language is available to manage the dialog with the terminal server or other device that answers the phone call. The syntax of the DIAL command in the example is new to C-Kermit 7.0 and explained in Section 2.1.15 of the ckermit2.txt file; it lets you give a list of numbers to be dialed in case the first one doesn't answer; as noted, the only way to do this in earlier C-Kermit versions was with a dialing directory. The sample script is not universal, but not that hard to generalize by making it a Kerbang script (called, say, "startppp") that takes phone numbers, username, and password as command-line arguments and prompts interactively for any of these that are missing. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 13:56:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04225 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:56:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA25683 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:31:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "Dale A. Dellutri" Subject: Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing Date: 21 Jan 2000 18:22:19 GMT Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Message-ID: <86a84r$hpg$1@eve.enteract.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 21 Jan 2000 18:09:01 GMT, Frank da Cruz wrote: > For years, people have been asking us how to use C-Kermit as their PPP > dialer in Linux and other kinds of Unix. >... > C-Kermit 7.0 includes a new command that handles PPP dialing in a natural > and straightforward way: > EXEC [ /REDIRECT ] [ [ [ ... ] ] Frank: will something like this be available for the new Kermit 95 (or whatever you'll call the new C-Kermit for Windows 95/98/NT/2000)? I would _love_ to have a replacement for the standard MS Dial-Up Networking. -- Dale Dellutri -- ddellutr@enteract.com From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 14:26:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09716 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA27604 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:09:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Case Study series, an observation Message-ID: Date: 21 Jan 00 11:43:20 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu The series of messages from Frank on Case Studies is very good material, and it is unusual in that it is using a dedicated News group to actually educate readers rather than just acting as a Tech Support Forum. The model deserves to be emulated by many other specialized News groups, not to mention the private vendor forums. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 14:26:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09718 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA27913 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:16:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing Date: 21 Jan 2000 19:16:33 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86abah$r86$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86aa56$q8a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, Jeffrey Altman wrote: : In article <86a84r$hpg$1@eve.enteract.com>, : Dale A. Dellutri wrote: : : ... : : Frank: will something like this be available for the new Kermit 95 (or : : whatever you'll call the new C-Kermit for Windows 95/98/NT/2000)? I : : would _love_ to have a replacement for the standard MS Dial-Up : : Networking. : : No. The RAS APIs do not allow another process to make the connection : and then hand off the handle to the TAPI device to RAS for the purposes : of performing PPP. : In other words, you should voice your concerns to your operating system provider. Some operating systems allow this -- even PC-based ones like OS/2 -- others don't. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 14:26:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09721 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:26:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA26893 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:56:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing Date: 21 Jan 2000 18:56:38 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86aa56$q8a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86a84r$hpg$1@eve.enteract.com>, Dale A. Dellutri wrote: : On 21 Jan 2000 18:09:01 GMT, Frank da Cruz wrote: : > For years, people have been asking us how to use C-Kermit as their PPP : > dialer in Linux and other kinds of Unix. : >... : > C-Kermit 7.0 includes a new command that handles PPP dialing in a natural : > and straightforward way: : > EXEC [ /REDIRECT ] [ [ [ ... ] ] : : Frank: will something like this be available for the new Kermit 95 (or : whatever you'll call the new C-Kermit for Windows 95/98/NT/2000)? I : would _love_ to have a replacement for the standard MS Dial-Up : Networking. No. The RAS APIs do not allow another process to make the connection and then hand off the handle to the TAPI device to RAS for the purposes of performing PPP. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 14:56:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17291 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:56:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA28718 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:30:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: gerlach@netcom.com (Matthew H. Gerlach) Subject: Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Date: 21 Jan 2000 19:23:34 GMT Organization: NETCOM / MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Message-ID: <86abnm$t5m$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Arthur Wouk wrote: >here it is. > >(i bought this machine used, with os installed by the previous owner. >it may be that i should re-install the full operating system before >upgrading kermit - but that gets me into the prior hardware upgrades >needed and move to solaris2.6 - which i am working on.) > >hosts: files dns Well, that is how my Solaris box is setup for use of DNS. I thinkk reloading the OS may not be such a bad idea. Matthew From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 14:56:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA17295 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:56:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA28765 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:31:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Case Study series, an observation Date: 21 Jan 2000 19:31:39 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86ac6r$s2q$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Joe Doupnik wrote: : The series of messages from Frank on Case Studies is very good : material, and it is unusual in that it is using a dedicated News group to : actually educate readers rather than just acting as a Tech Support Forum. : The model deserves to be emulated by many other specialized News groups, : not to mention the private vendor forums. : Thanks! In reality, they are turning out to be more like tutorials or introductions to different topics than actual case studies. I was hoping users would post some case studies of their own -- how they used Kermit software to solve real-life problems in their own areas of endeavor. Hey, I'm not afraid to make a fool of myself in public every day, why should you be? :-) (I'm sure many readers have noticed that few postings escape my keyboard without at least one embarrassing typo -- often a missing "not" or incomplete web or ftp reference; the case studies, at least, afford the opportunity to fix such gaffes retrospectively on the Website versions.) - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 15:26:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22446 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:26:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA00857 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:05:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation Date: 21 Jan 2000 20:05:36 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86ae6g$qm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86adc6$go1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : Thank's! It did solve my problem, but only when I send files from the : DOS PC to the linux box - unfortunately I also need to transfer text : files from the linux system to the DOS computer. How can I do this? : The same way. : I tried reversing the commands you advised me to use: : You don't have to reverse the commands. Kermit's character set translation is explained and illustrated thoroughly in the MS-DOS Kermit and C-Kermit manuals, which also include tables of many character sets, etc. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 15:26:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22448 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:26:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA00607 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:01:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: m.arriaga@ip.pt Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:51:40 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <86adc6$go1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi, Frank. Thank's! It did solve my problem, but only when I send files from the DOS PC to the linux box - unfortunately I also need to transfer text files from the linux system to the DOS computer. How can I do this? I tried reversing the commands you advised me to use: I told C-Kermit to >set file character-set cp850 (the codepage my PC uses for displaying Portuguese characters) >set transfer character-set latin1 and I told MSKermit to > > set file character-set latin1 > set transfer character-set latin1 > But I got errors from C-Kermit saying that I cannot use "cp850" with that command; how can I set up both Kermits to send and convert text files (with Portuguese characters) from the Linux system to the DOS PC? Thank's, Frank! Cheers, Manuel Arriaga Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 21 20:56:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA29614 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:56:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA17291 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:35:06 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: m.arriaga@ip.pt Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:01 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <86b0fv$v28$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi, Frank. In article <86ae6g$qm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: > :to transfer text > : files from the linux system to the DOS computer. How can I do this? > : > The same way. > > : I tried reversing the commands you advised me to use: > : > You don't have to reverse the commands. Thank you for your reply, but it really doesn't seem to work. I did the following: started MSKermit, set file character-set cp850, set transfer character-set latin1 "connect" and logged into the linux system. There I typed "kermit" and set file character-set latin1 set transfer character-set latin1. 1) To transfer files from the DOS PC to the linux system, I typed "receive" at C-Kermit's prompt, then pressed Alt+X, returned to the MSKermit prompt, and send file.txt This works flawlessly (accented characters are exactly the same on the other side!!:-) - but when I try to send files from the linux system to the PC, instead of (1) I did: 2) (at C-Kermit's prompt) send file2.txt I escape back to MSKermit, type receive and the file is transferred, but the accented characters are unrecognizable. What am I doing wrong? Thank you in advance for any tips! Best regards, Manuel Arriaga Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 22 14:27:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22606 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:27:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA01320 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:05:05 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation Date: 22 Jan 2000 19:05:04 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86cv10$190$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86b0fv$v28$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : In article <86ae6g$qm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, : fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: : > :to transfer text : > : files from the linux system to the DOS computer. How can I do this? : > : : > The same way. : > : > : I tried reversing the commands you advised me to use: : > : : > You don't have to reverse the commands. : : Thank you for your reply, but it really doesn't seem to work. I did the : following: : : started MSKermit, : set file character-set cp850, : set transfer character-set latin1 : "connect" : : and logged into the linux system. There I typed "kermit" and : : set file character-set latin1 : set transfer character-set latin1. : : 1) To transfer files from the DOS PC to the linux system, I : typed "receive" at C-Kermit's prompt, then pressed Alt+X, returned to : the MSKermit prompt, and : : send file.txt : : This works flawlessly (accented characters are exactly the same on the : other side!!:-) - but when I try to send files from the linux system to : the PC, instead of (1) I did: : : 2) (at C-Kermit's prompt) : send file2.txt : : I escape back to MSKermit, type : : receive : : and the file is transferred, but the accented characters are : unrecognizable. What am I doing wrong? : Perhaps the transfer from C-Kermit to MS-DOS Kermit took place in binary mode? C-Kermit 7.0: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html transfers files whose names end with ".txt" in text mode by default, but earlier versions don't have this feature. If you are using C-Kermit 6.0 or earlier, you might have to tell it to: set file type text before giving the SEND command. If you are using C-Kermit 7.0, then you can force a transfer into text or binary mode with the (new) /TEXT or /BINARY switch on the SEND command, for example: send /text file2.txt By the way, you don't have to type the character-set commands every time. If you always use the same character sets for text files, you can put: set file character-set cp850 set transfer character-set latin1 in your MSCUSTOM.INI file on the PC, and: set file character-set latin1 set transfer character-set latin1 in your .mykermrc file on UNIX. Then, whenever you transfer a file in text mode between these two computers, you will always get the appropriate CP850-Latin1 translations. This suggestion presumes you are using the standard MSKERMIT.INI and .kermrc initialization files (which "call" your personal customization files). - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 23 06:27:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA20909 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 06:27:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id GAA13375 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 06:20:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: m.arriaga@ip.pt Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:13:30 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <86enol$dlk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi, Frank. Thank you for everything; typing "send /text ..." at C-Kermit's (v7) prompt really did the trick for me...it now works perfectly! Once again thank's an best regards, Manuel Arriaga > Perhaps the transfer from C-Kermit to MS-DOS Kermit took place in binary > mode? > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 23 08:27:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12379 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:27:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA18686 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:22:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: dubal@my-deja.com Subject: How to run dos commands on client from unix host? Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:12:44 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <86euo8$hq9$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hello good people! We have a dos machine running dos kermit316. It logs into a unix host over tcp/ip lan. We are able to print transperantly on the dos printer (LPT1) using esc[5i and esc[4i seq while connected. The client has 2 printers. Is there any way to print on the 2nd printer using perhaps another seq or macro or something? Is there a similar esc seq that will allow us to run dos commands? Thanks in advance. Best wishes. Dubal. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 23 12:27:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02221 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:27:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA28848 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:08:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: How to run dos commands on client from unix host? Date: 23 Jan 2000 17:08:35 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86fcij$s5d$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86euo8$hq9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : We have a dos machine running dos kermit316. It logs into a unix host : over tcp/ip lan. We are able to print transperantly on the dos printer : (LPT1) using esc[5i and esc[4i seq while connected. : The client has 2 printers. Is there any way to print on the 2nd printer : using perhaps another seq or macro or something? : The terminals that Kermit emulates do not define a way to select different printers by sending different escape sequences, so Kermit can't do it either. But you can tell MS-DOS Kermit to: set printer lpt2 (or whatever) to select the current active printer. If you want to switch back and forth between printers, you can have the host send APC (Application Program Control) escape sequences: set printer xxx where is Esc followed by underscore (_), and ST (String Terminator) is Esc followed by backslash (\). Before this can work you probably need to tell MS-DOS Kermit to: set terminal apc on or even: set terminal apc unchecked : Is there a similar esc seq that will allow us to run dos commands? : As you might imagine, this can be dangerous, but it can be done with APC (with TERMINAL APC set to UNCHECKED). At your own risk. More info in Section 10 of your KERMIT.UPD file. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 23 12:57:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08694 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:57:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA00350 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:36:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: How to run dos commands on client from unix host? Message-ID: <0$qSUeChyLOt@cc.usu.edu> Date: 23 Jan 00 10:01:54 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86euo8$hq9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, dubal@my-deja.com writes: > Hello good people! > > We have a dos machine running dos kermit316. It logs into a unix host > over tcp/ip lan. We are able to print transperantly on the dos printer > (LPT1) using esc[5i and esc[4i seq while connected. > The client has 2 printers. Is there any way to print on the 2nd printer > using perhaps another seq or macro or something? > Is there a similar esc seq that will allow us to run dos commands? > Thanks in advance. > Best wishes. > Dubal. -------------- Transparent printing goes to the DOS PRN device from Kermit. Kermit does not go to the physical printer itself nor to the physical printer port. MS-DOS Kermit command SET PRINTER allows a choice to be made to a DOS device name (such as PRN) or to a file. There is limited support to have an MS-DOS Kermit server execute DOS commands and relay back their results to the caller. This is the REMOTE HOST command. There is no user "interaction" during the command, and thus this is not acting as a keyboard/screen relay. For a relay one should try a product such as PCAnywhere or similar. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 23 19:57:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27636 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:57:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA19711 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:28:34 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #14: Character Sets Date: 24 Jan 2000 00:28:33 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86g6bh$j7s$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Some recent questions about character-sets prompt today's discussion. As you probably know, Kermit software is practically (and perhaps actually) unique among communication software packages in its ability to convert the character sets of text files while transferring them between platforms that use different ones. In the recent postings, the need was to transfer Portuguese text between a PC that used PC Code Page 850 (CP850) and a UNIX system that used some other encoding. Kermit protocol and software have been able to handle such tasks since the 1980s. This feature is important to everybody who reads and writes a language that uses accented and/or non-Roman characters -- in other words, the overwhelming majority of humanity. Only a few languages are written entirely in plain ABCs: English, Latin, Malay, and maybe Dutch. Nearly all the others need accents or non-ABC characters. But accented and non-Roman characters are represented differently on different computers. So (returning to our example) if you copy Portuguese text from (say) DOS or Windows to (say) HP-UX or VMS, all the accented letters become, well, garbage. If you copy Greek, Russian, or Hebrew text between the same two computers, ALL the letters become garbage. What good is accomplished by moving text from one computer to another if the result is gibberish? In the world at large, text-file transfer should provide for character-set conversion. The Kermit protocol does; the method was worked out in the late 1980s and is written up in papers you can find at: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/papers.html Suppose you want to send Portuguese text from DOS to HP-UX (in DOS, Portuguese text can be encoded in CP437, CP850, or CP860, each of them different; your first job is to find out which one is actually used on your PC). Let's say the encoding is CP850. You would tell Kermit on the PC to: set file character-set cp850 Use C-Kermit's menu-on-demand feature to find out what file character-sets are available: set file character-set ? This gives you the complete list. But PC Kermit doesn't send CP850 on the wire, because it's a private (proprietary) character set. Only standard character sets should be used between computers. Kermit supports a small number of standard transfer character-sets, each one covering its own group of languages (and therefore file character-sets). You have to tell it which one to use; in this case, ISO 8859-1 Latin Alphabet 1: set transfer character-set latin1 You can see the list of available transfer character-sets with: set transfer character-set ? (If you obtained the two lists, you should have seen about 50 file character-sets and 10 transfer character-sets, enough to cover the West and East European Roman-alphabet languages, plus languages written in Cyrillic and Hebrew, plus Greek and Japanese.) Now when PC Kermit sends a file in text mode, it converts the file from CP850 to Latin-1, and announces the Latin-1 encoding to the receiving Kermit program. Meanwhile, because the HP-Roman8 character set is used on HP-UX, which is different not only from the PC code pages just mentioned but also from Latin-1, HP-UX C-Kermit must be told to: set file character-set hp-roman8 The final step is to make sure the file sender transfers the file in text mode, rather than binary mode, because character-set and record-format conversions take place only in text mode: set file type text Now the file can be transferred. To summarize, the following commands are given to the file sender: set file character-set cp850 ; Identify the source file encoding set transfer character-set latin1 ; Specify the transfer encoding set file type text ; Choose text mode send quilombo.txt ; Send a file and to the file receiver: set file character-set hp-roman8 ; Identify target file encoding receive ; Receive the file The file sender tells the file receiver to expect a text file encoded in Latin-1; the file sender converts from CP850 to Latin-1, and the file receiver converts from Latin-1 to HP-Roman8. To send files in the other direction, simply exchange the SEND and RECEIVE commands (keeping the SET FILE TYPE TEXT command with the file sender); the rest stays the same. This is all old news, but it might still be new to many readers. The procedures and specific character sets are documented in Chapter 16 of "Using C-Kermit", 2nd Edition, and in other Kermit manuals. All of the facilities discussed until now are found in C-Kermit 5A and later, MS-DOS Kermit 3.0 and later, Kermit 95 (all versions), and IBM Mainframe Kermit since (I think) version 4.1. So what's new in C-Kermit 7.0 and the forthcoming 1.1.18 release of Kermit 95? Lots of new character sets have been added, including many for Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union, as well as those used for Greek. And Unicode, the new Univeral Character Set, which was discussed in a previous posting. So now the possibilities for character-set conversion are wider than ever. And in keeping with our goal that C-Kermit 7.0 "just work" for most people most of the time, we have also added not just automatic text/binary mode switching, discussed previously, but also automatic character-set associations, in which each file character-set is associated with an appropriate transfer character-set, and vice versa. C-Kermit comes with a comprehensive table of associates preloaded, which you can view with: show associations Perhaps you were wondering (if you don't have a manual) how you were supposed to know that Latin-1 was the appropriate transfer character-set for CP850? Good question! Now this information is built in to C-Kermit. So whenever you pick a file character-set, C-Kermit picks the appropriate transfer character-set for you, and vice versa. Furthermore, whenever C-Kermit receives a text file in a particular transfer character-set, it converts it to the appropriate file character-set automatically, even if you have not told it which one to use. So the sequence above is now simplified. At the sender: set file character-set cp850 ; Identify the source file encoding send *.* ; Send some files and at the file receiver: receive ; Receive the file Appropriate associations are built in for each platform. So you just have to start the ball rolling by specifying the encoding of the source file; the rest flows from there. And now because of automatic text/binary mode switching, you can send a mixed group of text and binary files and have the character-set conversions applied only to the text files. Of course you can change associations if you need to. The command is ASSOCIATE. You can also turn this whole feature on and off with SET SEND (and RECEIVE) CHARACTER-SET-SELECTION. For complete details about character-set associations, see Section 6.5 of the ckermit2.txt file. So now C-Kermit is just about as automatic as it can be in this area. The one thing it can't do is figure out automatically the encoding of a file. Some people believe this can be done, but I'm not one of them. Operating systems have nevere tagged files by encoding, and guessing the encoding from inspection is highly unreliable. By the way, C-Kermit's character-set conversion capabilities are not limited to file transfer. They are also available in terminal (CONNECT) mode. In this case you choose the translation with: set terminal character-set [ ] The defaults to C-Kermit's current file character-set. Again, type a question mark in the character-set field to get a list of available choices. Finally, you can also use C-Kermit to convert a local file from one character-set to another. For example, to convert the file oofa.txt from Latin-1 to the UTF-8 form of Unicode, and store the result as oofa.utf8, the command would be: translate oofa.txt latin1 utf8 oofa.utf8 This is nothing new, except for the expanded character-set choices. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 23 21:27:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA13150 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:27:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA28780 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:01:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "Henry E. Thorpe" Subject: Raising SSH question, again Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:00:24 -0500 Organization: Just me Message-ID: <388BB238.5B7DA3DF@att.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Just in case it hasn't been asked, recently: Now that there is an OpenSSH, what are the chances of client code in C-Kermit or Kermit-95? And yes, I realize that it really isn't necessary in C-Kermit. From news@columbia.edu Sun Jan 23 23:27:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA04991 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:27:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA04672 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:00:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: Raising SSH question, again Date: 24 Jan 2000 04:00:44 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86gipc$4ht$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <388BB238.5B7DA3DF@att.net>, Henry E. Thorpe wrote: : Just in case it hasn't been asked, recently: : : Now that there is an OpenSSH, what are the chances of client code in : C-Kermit : or Kermit-95? And yes, I realize that it really isn't necessary in : C-Kermit. The primary reason for Columbia University's inability to support SSH is because of the licensing restrictions placed on the RSA patent. OpenSSH is not legal to use or distributed in the United States without paying a licensing fee to the patent holders. This will remain true until September 20, 2000. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 10:27:29 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10046 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:27:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA25151 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:26:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: File deletion script Date: 24 Jan 2000 15:25:58 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86hqu6$oht$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Antero Laitinen wrote: : I would need a simple script to delete files older than one week in a : folder. Anybody know of a web page where I could find such a script ? : Here is such a script: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/scripts/ckermit/delete It is from the C-Kermit script library: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.html and is executed by C-Kermit 7.0: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html Some people might find the syntax: delete /before:-7days foldername/* easier to cope with than that of 'find' :-) - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 12:57:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA13460 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA03047 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:47:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "quertyq@hotmail.com" Subject: Can't remote delete in K95 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:27:15 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <86i21b$n1j$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi: I'm running K95 1.1.17 on 2 PC's with windows 98. The remote PC has kermit in server mode with the line set to the modem port; that I dial into. When I type the command: "remote delete junk.fil" The message appears: "?REMOTE DELETE disabled" How do I set the remote kermit so that I can delete files? Is the "get junk.fil /delete" from the same problem? Thanks again, Matt Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 13:27:30 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18822 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:27:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA04199 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:10:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Can't remote delete in K95 Date: 24 Jan 2000 18:10:45 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86i4j5$42o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86i21b$n1j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, quertyq@hotmail.com wrote: : I'm running K95 1.1.17 on 2 PC's with windows 98. : The remote PC has kermit in server mode with the line set to : the modem port; that I dial into. : When I type the command: : "remote delete junk.fil" : The message appears: : "?REMOTE DELETE disabled" : : How do I set the remote kermit so that I can delete files? : Is the "get junk.fil /delete" from the same problem? : Before giving the SERVER command on the far end, tell it to ENABLE DELETE. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 13:27:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18824 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:27:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA04502 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:16:46 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: cateyes5612@my-deja.com Subject: Need help on CKERMIT Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:03:00 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <86i44g$orq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I am trying to transfer a tar file from my NT machine (using HyperTerminal) to my QNX machine(using C-KERMIT 7.0 build) via a serial port connection(COM1). On the NT side, my HyperTerminal settings are: (with autodetect emulation) bps: 9600 data bits: 8 parity: none stop bits: 1 flow control: hardware On the QNX 4.25 side: Name: //1/dev/ttyp1 Type: pseudo Opens: 1 (RW) Sigint Grp: 126, Sighup pid: 126 -parenb -parodd -parstk -cstopb -inpck +hupcl +cread -clocal +isig +icanon +iexten +echo +echoe +echok -echonl -noflsh -ignbrk +brkint -ignpar -parmrk -istrip -inlcr -igncr +icrnl +opost -isflow +osflow +ihflow +ohflow -lkhflow -lksflow +lkiexten -wtsflow -nopgrp -echoi -ispaged -ospaged -ihpaged -ohpaged intr=^C quit=^\ erase=^? kill=^U eof=^D eol=^- start=^Q stop=^S susp=^- min=01 time=00 pr1=^[ pr2=5B pr3=^- pr4=^- sf1=^- sf2=^- sf3=^- sf4=^- left=44 right=43 up=41 down=42 ins=40 del=50 rub=^- can=^- home=48 end=59 par=none bits=8 stopb=1 baud=9600 rows=25,80 I cannot seem to transfer the binary file when I do ckermit -r I get a "N3" on the QNX side and the file transfer was not successful. Can someone help? Thanks! Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 13:57:30 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26428 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:57:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06346 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:52:52 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Need help on CKERMIT Date: 24 Jan 2000 18:52:49 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86i721$666$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <388C9D01.3C4F6BD1@eracc.bizland.com>, ERA wrote: : cateyes5612@my-deja.com wrote: : ... : Yup, buy Kermit-95-98-NT-OS/2 and use it instead of Hyperterminal. My : guess is the problem is on the Hyperterminal side. : : That said you might try making the transfer "robust" to see if you : can get it to work at all then tweak the settings to get more speed : starting from the robust settings. If you have not purchased the : C-Kermit manual then I *strongly* and respectfully suggest that you : buy it. : Note: if you get Kermit 95, it includes a copy of the same book. : I have found it an invaluable resource when diligently used : to research just such a problem as you have. Frank and Christine did : an excellent job on the book(s) and I for one look forward to the : next release. : So do we! (Thanks.) - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 13:57:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26431 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05201 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:31:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Need help on CKERMIT Date: 24 Jan 2000 18:31:15 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86i5pj$524$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86i44g$orq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : I am trying to transfer a tar file from my NT machine (using : HyperTerminal) to my QNX machine(using C-KERMIT 7.0 build) via : a serial port connection(COM1). : Direct, or with a modem? : I cannot seem to transfer the binary file when I do : ckermit -r : Can you transfer text files? : I get a "N3" on the QNX side and the file transfer was : not successful. Can someone help? : #N3 is a NAK (Negative Acknowledgement). Did you get it in response to the first packet, or the first Data packet? This is not the Hyperterminal help line, but: . Are you sure you told Hyperterminal to send the file? Or is it still sitting in its terminal screen waiting for instructions? . Is it an 8-bit clean connection? If it isn't, you'll need to inform Hyperterminal that you have a 7-bit link, and therefore it should use parity (and therefore 8th-bit prefixing, if it supports that). - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 13:57:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26434 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05476 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:35:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing Date: 24 Jan 2000 18:35:26 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86i61e$5b0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <388C97FD.CCDA1ADD@eracc.bizland.com>, ERA wrote: : Since you mention my favorite OS ... Jeffrey, will that be available : in the OS/2 version? Would be tres cool to have another option for : dialing up a PPP connection. I have three now - InJoy Pro, IBM DOIP : and a REXX program. I can only use Injoy legally on one PC on the LAN : to provide DOD and NAT. IBM DOIP is not easy to set up and the REXX : program works ok but I have to manually place commands on the command : line with it. Looks like Kermit/2 with a PPP hand-off would do the : trick for me, especially since I have several numbers available to : dial my ISP and it's a PITA to try them one at a time with the REXX. : I could probably patch up the REXX code to handle a list of numbers : and to check for failed PPP dialing but I've not found the time to do : that yet. Kermit 95 for OS/2 has supported PPP dialing since 1994. This is documented in the "For OS/2 Users" section of the online Kermit 95 manual. The subtopic is "Using Kermit/2 to Dial SLIP and PPP Connections." Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 13:57:32 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26437 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05919 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:44:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Message-ID: <388C9D01.3C4F6BD1@eracc.bizland.com> From: ERA Organization: ERA Computer Consulting Subject: Re: Need help on CKERMIT Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:43:32 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cateyes5612@my-deja.com wrote: > > I am trying to transfer a tar file from my NT machine (using > HyperTerminal) to my QNX machine(using C-KERMIT 7.0 build) via > a serial port connection(COM1). > [stuff removed here] > > I cannot seem to transfer the binary file when I do > ckermit -r > > I get a "N3" on the QNX side and the file transfer was > not successful. Can someone help? > Thanks! Yup, buy Kermit-95-98-NT-OS/2 and use it instead of Hyperterminal. My guess is the problem is on the Hyperterminal side. That said you might try making the transfer "robust" to see if you can get it to work at all then tweak the settings to get more speed starting from the robust settings. If you have not purchased the C-Kermit manual then I *strongly* and respectfully suggest that you buy it. I have found it an invaluable resource when diligently used to research just such a problem as you have. Frank and Christine did an excellent job on the book(s) and I for one look forward to the next release. -- Gene Alexander -- +==========================-=>Team OS/2<=-==========================+ # Owner and C.E.O. - ERA Computer Consulting - Jackson, TN USA # #Providing IBM OS/2 and SCO OpenServer Business Computing Solutions# # visit our www pages at http://eracc.bizland.com/ # +===================================================================+ The Operating System/2 Version is 4.00 Revision 9.029 There are 47 Processes with 164 Threads. This machine's uptime is 1d 14h 48m 33s 212ms. From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 13:57:32 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26440 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:57:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05021 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:29:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Message-ID: <388C97FD.CCDA1ADD@eracc.bizland.com> From: ERA Organization: ERA Computer Consulting Subject: Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:22:12 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Frank da Cruz wrote: > > In article <86aa56$q8a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, > Jeffrey Altman wrote: > : In article <86a84r$hpg$1@eve.enteract.com>, > : Dale A. Dellutri wrote: > : : ... > : : Frank: will something like this be available for the new Kermit > : : 95 (or whatever you'll call the new C-Kermit for Windows > : : 95/98/NT/2000)? I would _love_ to have a replacement for the > : : standard MS Dial-Up Networking. > : > : No. The RAS APIs do not allow another process to make the > : connection and then hand off the handle to the TAPI device to RAS > : for the purposes of performing PPP. > : > In other words, you should voice your concerns to your operating > system provider. Some operating systems allow this -- even > PC-based ones like OS/2 -- others don't. > > - Frank Yeah, right Frank! Like MS is gonna be concerned that someone elses software won't work with their OS. HA! If The Kermit Project weren't under development at a University I'm sure they would have tried to absorb you or "kill you off" by now. ;-) Since you mention my favorite OS ... Jeffrey, will that be available in the OS/2 version? Would be tres cool to have another option for dialing up a PPP connection. I have three now - InJoy Pro, IBM DOIP and a REXX program. I can only use Injoy legally on one PC on the LAN to provide DOD and NAT. IBM DOIP is not easy to set up and the REXX program works ok but I have to manually place commands on the command line with it. Looks like Kermit/2 with a PPP hand-off would do the trick for me, especially since I have several numbers available to dial my ISP and it's a PITA to try them one at a time with the REXX. I could probably patch up the REXX code to handle a list of numbers and to check for failed PPP dialing but I've not found the time to do that yet. -- Gene Alexander -- +==========================-=>Team OS/2<=-==========================+ # Owner and C.E.O. - ERA Computer Consulting - Jackson, TN USA # #Providing IBM OS/2 and SCO OpenServer Business Computing Solutions# # visit our www pages at http://eracc.bizland.com/ # +===================================================================+ The Operating System/2 Version is 4.00 Revision 9.029 There are 47 Processes with 164 Threads. This machine's uptime is 1d 14h 24m 17s 962ms. From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 18:27:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21897 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:27:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA20871 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:23:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #15: File Selection Date: 24 Jan 2000 23:23:30 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86imti$kc4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu A question we see posted on the newsgroups at least once a week is "how do I delete files more than a week old?" Of course each operating system might (or might not) have its own way of doing this; some straightforward (like VMS's DELETE /BEFORE command), some not so obvious: find -type f -mtime +7 -print | xargs rm This is just one example of a larger class of problems: "how can I select files for a particular action?". C-Kermit 7.0 handles file selection in two ways: first by incorporating the notion of "switches" into its command language, and second by its new, more-powerful wildcard syntax. We might discuss wildcard syntax another time (it's about what you get in csh or bash) but you can find out all about it any time by typing "help wildcard" at the C-Kermit prompt. Switches (command modifiers) should be familiar to anybody who has used the command languages of DOS, VMS, TOPS-10 or TOPS-20, RT-11, RSX-11, AOS/VS, and so on. Switches are optional keywords that begin with a slash (/) and might also take an argument. For example: delete /before:-1week *.log Here "delete" is the command, "/before:" is the switch, "-1week" is the switch argument, and "*.log" is the target of the command. This deletes all files whose names end with ".log" in the current directory that are more than a week old. Let's see what other switches are offered by Kermit's DELETE command: C-Kermit>delete ? File specification; or switch, one of the following: /after: /except: /noask /not-after: /ask /heading /nodotfiles /not-before: /before: /larger-than: /noheading /simulate /dotfiles /list /nolist /smaller-than: C-Kermit>delete The name of each switch should be suggestive of its function, but of course you can type "help delete" for a description of each switch. The switches that are listed with a terminating colon (:) take arguments. You can find out what the argument is by typing a question mark after the colon: C-Kermit>delete /before:? File-time C-Kermit>delete /except:? Pattern The /BEFORE, /AFTER, and related switches accept dates and/or times, which can be given in almost any format that is not ambiguous, and you can also give relative dates like "yesterday", "-12days", and "+2weeks". The /EXCEPT switch lets you enter an exception list: one or more filenames or patterns that should be excluded from the operation. Here's an example: delete /dotfiles /before:-1week /larger:10000 /except:*keep* *.log This deletes all files, including dotfiles (like ".readme"), whose names end with ".log" that are more than a week old and larger than 10000 bytes, except the ones whose names include the word "keep". In case you're unsure of yourself, you can include the /SIMULATE switch, which tells C-Kermit to list the files it WOULD have deleted without actually deleting them. Of course file-selection (and other) switches are not only for the DELETE command. Most of C-Kermit's file transfer and management commands now have switches; for example, the SEND command: C-Kermit>send ? Filename, or switch, one of the following: /after: /except: /nodotfiles /recursive /array: /filter: /not-after: /rename-to: /as-name: /filenames: /not-before: /smaller-than: /before: /larger-than: /pathnames: /starting-at: /binary /listfile: /print: /subject: /command /mail: /protocol: /text /delete /move-to: /quiet /dotfiles /nobackup /recover C-Kermit>send Or the new PURGE command, for managing those annoying backup files: C-Kermit>purge ? Filename or switch, one of the following: /after: /heading /nodotfiles /not-before: /ask /keep: /noheading /page /before: /larger-than: /nolist /recursive /dotfiles /list /nopage /simulate /except: /noask /not-after: /smaller-than: C-Kermit>purge Or the new built-in DIRECTORY command: C-Kermit>dir ? File specification; or switch, one of the following: /after: /englishdate /noheading /recursive /all /except: /nomessage /reverse /array: /files /nopage /smaller-than: /ascending /heading /norecursive /sort: /backup /isodate /nosort /xfermode /before: /larger-than: /not-after: /verbose /brief /message: /not-before: /directories /nobackup /noxfermode /dotfiles /nodotfiles /page C-Kermit>dir You can use switches in any desired combination to obtain results you couldn't get before. Returning to our original example, let's say that rather than deleting files that are more than a week old, we want to move them to another computer. Assuming the connection is already made and the other Kermit is in server (or receive) mode, the command is deceptively simple: send /delete /before:-1week *.* But remember all that's going on behind the scenes: . Automatic per-file text/binary-mode switching . File timestamp and permission preservation . Atomic file movement And so on; most of this has been covered in previous installments. To read all about switches, see Section 1.5 of the ckermit2.txt file. Section 1.6 explains date/time formats. The DIRECTORY command is described in Section 4.5.1 and the DELETE and PURGE commands in Section 4.5.4. File-transfer command switches are documented in Section 4.7. The new wildcard syntax is covered in Section 4.9. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 24 18:57:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28623 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:57:33 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA21260 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:28:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: cateyes5612@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Need help on CKERMIT Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:14:07 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <86imbq$7kf$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86i721$666$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: > In article <388C9D01.3C4F6BD1@eracc.bizland.com>, > ERA wrote: > : cateyes5612@my-deja.com wrote: > : ... > : Yup, buy Kermit-95-98-NT-OS/2 and use it instead of Hyperterminal. My > : guess is the problem is on the Hyperterminal side. > : > : That said you might try making the transfer "robust" to see if you > : can get it to work at all then tweak the settings to get more speed > : starting from the robust settings. If you have not purchased the > : C-Kermit manual then I *strongly* and respectfully suggest that you > : buy it. > : > Note: if you get Kermit 95, it includes a copy of the same book. > > : I have found it an invaluable resource when diligently used > : to research just such a problem as you have. Frank and Christine did > : an excellent job on the book(s) and I for one look forward to the > : next release. > : > So do we! (Thanks.) > > - Frank > Sounds good, I'll get one. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 07:57:42 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15023 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:57:42 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA28469 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:37:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: David Stow Subject: ODI configuration for MS-Kermit? Date: 25 Jan 2000 12:27:57 GMT Organization: Vancouver CommunityNet Message-ID: <86k4sd$f90$1@sylvester.vcn.bc.ca> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Does MSKermit require that IPXODI be loaded before it can send IP packets using ODI? I'd like to send files between computers that have Arcnet cards and SMCARCWS drivers (with LSL.COM included), and I want to know whether Kermit can do this without any other NetWare components. Does MSKermit receive packets directly from LSL, or is there some interaction between Kermit and IPXODI that would make it impossible to send IP packets without already having NetWare running? Thanks, David Stow From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 10:57:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11786 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:57:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA07734 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:39:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: ODI configuration for MS-Kermit? Message-ID: Date: 25 Jan 00 08:01:57 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86k4sd$f90$1@sylvester.vcn.bc.ca>, David Stow writes: > Does MSKermit require that IPXODI be loaded before it can send IP > packets using ODI? I'd like to send files between computers that have Arcnet > cards and SMCARCWS drivers (with LSL.COM included), and I want to know > whether Kermit can do this without any other NetWare components. Does > MSKermit receive packets directly from LSL, or is there some interaction > between Kermit and IPXODI that would make it impossible to send IP packets > without already having NetWare running? > > Thanks, > David Stow ----------- The answer is IPXODI supports the IPX protocol stack, which is in parallel with Kermit's TCP/IP protocol stack. Neither knows nor cares about the other. For Kermit the minimum ODI components are LSL and the ODI lan driver, and the net.cfg file. If one is using the newer Client32 material then add protected to real mode shim pdoseth (or appropriate lan media) as a pseudo lan adapter. And keep in mind that only one protocol stack of a given kind can run over a single lan adapter (save only one example of a really clever IP snoop and rewrite on the fly shim). Dan Lanciani has a protected mode NDIS shim for parallel TCP/IP stacks, but each stack needs its own IP address. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 12:27:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA29260 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:27:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA12859 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:15:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Peter Burkholder Subject: Changing Unix C-kermit> prompt Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:05:42 -0800 Organization: University of Washington Message-ID: <388DD7E6.ED7EA6A6@seanet.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I'm doing some script writing rather deep in my directory tree, so I'm always looking at a prompt like: (/export/home/badger/spyder/kermit/ck7/) C-Kermit> which hardly leaves space for my commands w/o wrapping. I don't see in the book or documentation how I truncate the current directory listing, but I hope there is. I'd be happy with; (ck7) C-Kermit> Thanks, Peter _____________________________________________________________________ Peter Burkholder Research Scientist, Spyder(R)man QRC Room 132 Geophysics Program, Bx 351650 Office: (206) 543-9024 University of Washington Fax: (206) 543-0489 Seattle, WA 98195 Dept: (206) 543-8020 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 12:57:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06669 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:57:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA15118 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:55:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Changing Unix C-kermit> prompt Date: 25 Jan 2000 17:55:53 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86ko39$enr$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <388DD7E6.ED7EA6A6@seanet.com>, Peter Burkholder wrote: : I'm doing some script writing rather deep in my directory : tree, so I'm always looking at a prompt like: : : (/export/home/badger/spyder/kermit/ck7/) C-Kermit> : : which hardly leaves space for my commands w/o wrapping. I don't : see in the book or documentation how I truncate the current : directory listing, but I hope there is. I'd be happy with; : (ck7) C-Kermit> : The prompt definition can contain macros, variables, function calls, or anything else. The definition is re-evaluated each time the prompt changes. The default definition is: (\v(directory)) C-Kermit> which shows the current directory in parentheses; if you give a CD command, the prompt changes. C-Kermit 7.0 includes a lot of new string functions. Unfortunately, none of them does exactly what you need (one of them, \fstripx(), does exactly the opposite: removes the rightmost segment from the string). But where there's a will, there's a way: set prompt (\freplace(\fsubstr(\v(dir),\frindex(/,\v(dir),2)),/,)) C-Kermit> In which: \frindex(/,\v(dir),2) Gives the position of the rightmost slash not counting the trailing one. \fsubstr(\v(dir),\frindex(/,\v(dir),2)) Gives the rightmost directory segment, with slashes \freplace(\fsubstr(\v(dir),\frindex(/,\v(dir),2)),/,) Removes the the slashes. The result, in your case, should be: (ck7) C-Kermit> You can achieve any other desired effect with C-Kermit's string functions. Most of them are documented in "Using C-Kermit". New ones are documented in the ckermit2.txt file. The SHOW FUNCTIONS command lists the functions that are available. In C-Kermit 7.0, you can get help on a particular function with: help function xxx where xxx is the function name. This tells you the calling sequence, action, and return value. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 15:27:48 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07930 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:27:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA22711 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:15:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Peter Burkholder Subject: Re: Changing Unix C-kermit> prompt Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:06:54 -0800 Organization: University of Washington Message-ID: <388E025E.60D8E098@seanet.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Thanks Frank, Now I see where "set prompt" is in the index. I'm still finding my way around this program, but liking it better all the time. Thanks for the tip. Cheers, Peter CheersFrank da Cruz wrote: > > In article <388DD7E6.ED7EA6A6@seanet.com>, > Peter Burkholder wrote: > : I'm doing some script writing rather deep in my directory > : tree, so I'm always looking at a prompt like: > : > : (/export/home/badger/spyder/kermit/ck7/) C-Kermit> > : > : which hardly leaves space for my commands w/o wrapping. I don't > : see in the book or documentation how I truncate the current > : directory listing, but I hope there is. I'd be happy with; > : (ck7) C-Kermit> > : > The prompt definition can contain macros, variables, function calls, > or anything else. The definition is re-evaluated each time the prompt > changes. The default definition is: > > (\v(directory)) C-Kermit> > > which shows the current directory in parentheses; if you give a CD > command, the prompt changes. > > C-Kermit 7.0 includes a lot of new string functions. Unfortunately, none > of them does exactly what you need (one of them, \fstripx(), does exactly > the opposite: removes the rightmost segment from the string). > > But where there's a will, there's a way: > > set prompt (\freplace(\fsubstr(\v(dir),\frindex(/,\v(dir),2)),/,)) C-Kermit> > > In which: > > \frindex(/,\v(dir),2) > Gives the position of the rightmost slash not counting the trailing one. > > \fsubstr(\v(dir),\frindex(/,\v(dir),2)) > Gives the rightmost directory segment, with slashes > > \freplace(\fsubstr(\v(dir),\frindex(/,\v(dir),2)),/,) > Removes the the slashes. > > The result, in your case, should be: > > (ck7) C-Kermit> > > You can achieve any other desired effect with C-Kermit's string functions. > Most of them are documented in "Using C-Kermit". New ones are documented > in the ckermit2.txt file. The SHOW FUNCTIONS command lists the functions > that are available. In C-Kermit 7.0, you can get help on a particular > function with: > > help function xxx > > where xxx is the function name. This tells you the calling sequence, > action, and return value. > > - Frank (*)/ (*) From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 16:57:47 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA27704 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:57:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA28522 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:51:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #16: Bootstrapping Date: 25 Jan 2000 21:51:11 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86l5sf$rr3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hardly a week passes without a desperate plea like the following appearing on some newsgroup or other: Help! I have 20MB of files on a PC with XENIX 2.3.4 [substitute any other old operating system], which does not have a network card, and I need to move them to Windows 98! My XENIX PC has only a 5.25" diskette and my Windows PC has only a 3.5" diskette, and they have no other media in common. When there is no network, there are no removable media in common, and the two computers are not both UNIX (and therefore do not both have UUCP), Kermit is often the most practical alternative. But I don't have a copy of Kermit on my XENIX system! This article tells how to "bootstrap" Kermit onto your old system. The term "bootstrap" refers to "lifting yourself up by your bootstraps"; a paradox (similar to recursion, which we discussed earlier). In this case, the paradox is: "In order to get Kermit onto your computer, you must get Kermit on your computer". It's easier than it seems! The key is G-Kermit, announced here a month ago: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/gkermit.html G-Kermit is a compact and portable Kermit program. All it does is transfer files -- no frills, no conveniences. It's small enough to load into your computer without an error-detecting and -correcting protocol. For bootstrapping, we supply uuencoded compressed binaries that are several hundreds lines long each. All you have to do is put the the appropriate one on the target computer, uudecode it, and uncompress it. You could do this via diskette or any other means at your disposal, but let's assume the serial port is your only option, and that the target computer: . Can be connected to a PC with a null modem cable (or by modem dialup); . Is set up to allow logins on its serial port. and that the PC is running DOS or Windows, not UNIX, just so we can illustrate the general principals of bootstrapping without relying on UNIX-specific tricks. Let's also assume you know how to make the connection. Here are the steps: 1. Determine whether the target computer has gunzip. Just type "gunzip" and look at the response. If it says something like "gunzip: compressed data not read from a terminal" then you have gunzip. If it says something like "gunzip: command not found", you don't. 2. FTP the appropriate uuencoded binary to your PC. Get the .gz.uue version if the target computer has gunzip, otherwise get the .Z.uue version. The uuencoded compressed G-Kermit binaries are in: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/uue/ 3. Use your terminal program on the PC to log in to the target computer via the serial-port or modem connection. 4. Once you have the shell prompt on the target computer, give an stty command to set up the appropriate kind of flow control. Use RTS/CTS (hardware flow control) if it is supported by your cable and by the target operating system; otherwise use Xon/Xoff. The UNIX stty command depends on the UNIX version. Here are some examples: stty crtscts (for RTS/CTS) stty rtsxoff ctsxon (for RTS/CTS) stty crtsxoff crtscts (for RTS/CTS) stty ixon ixoff -ixany (for Xon/Xoff) The command for Xon/Xoff is fairly well standardized; the one for hardware flow control is different almost everywhere. "man stty" tells you what the command is (if any) on your UNIX system. 5. Set your terminal program to use the same kind of flow control. If your PC terminal program is from the Kermit Project, the command would be SET FLOW RTS/CTS or SET FLOW XON/XOFF. 6. At the shell prompt, type: cat > x.uue Now UNIX expects you to "type" commands into the x.uue file. 7. Return to your terminal program and tell it to send the uuencoded G-Kermit program using "ASCII" protocol. In Kermit Project software the command is TRANSMIT. Example: transmit gku100.i386-xenix-2.3.4.Z.uue 8. When the upload is finished, return to the terminal screen and type Ctrl-D (hold down the Ctrl key and press the 'd' key). This closes the x.uue file on UNIX. You should get the UNIX shell prompt back (if you don't, press the Enter or Return key and then Ctrl-D again). 9. At the UNIX shell prompt, type "uudecode x.uue". This should produce a file called either gkermit.Z or gkermit.gz, depending on the compression method. 10. If it's gkermit.Z, type "uncompress gkermit.Z". If it's gkermit.gz, type "gunzip gkermit.gz". If you get any complaints like "gunzip: gkermit.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error", go back and repeat steps 6-10, perhaps reducing the serial speed on each end first. Note that gunzip catches transmission errors, but uncompress doesn't. This is another reason to use gunzip if you can. 11. At the UNIX shell prompt, type "chmod +x gkermit". 12. At the UNIX shell prompt, type "./gkermit". You should see the G-Kermit help text. If something horrible happens instead, go back to Step 6, perhaps reducing the serial port speed first. Now you have a Kermit program on your UNIX computer. See the G-Kermit web page for documentation. G-Kermit might be all you need to get the critical files off your old UNIX computer. But in case you need the more advanced features of C-Kermit (automatic text/binary mode switching, directory-tree transfer, atomic file movement, character-set conversion, scripting), now you can use G-Kermit to transfer the appropriate C-Kermit binary to the same computer. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 20:57:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14151 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:57:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA17004 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:52:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <012500204110not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:50:41 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi Joe, About "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities" of January 1, 5, 7 and 18: MS> I introduce myself, i'm a DOS_InterNet user and spent about the last MS> two years lurking/participating to the same-name echo of the MS> `FidoNet' amateur messaging network. Since the last four years or MS> so i looked for DOS INet FreeWare/ShareWare programs in hope that MS> i'd get my hands on some piece of software which can be run even on MS> a minimum setup, meaning: - 8088 4,77 Mhz ~CPU~ - 640 Kb ~RAM~... .. MS> TO UPGRADE THE HARDWARE OR TO SWITCH TO PROTOCOLS LIKE ~FTP~/~HTTP~ MS> *IS NOT* AN OPTION. JRD> 486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free for the asking... I finally read your messages (not just short spasmodic quoted fragments) which you intended as a reply to my previous posts. Most unfortunately, nothing you can write makes it to my news server; i called my ~ISP~ and one of their clerck explained me that YOU PROBABLY ARE USING ONE OF YOUR APPLICATION'S OPTION TO LIMIT THE PROPAGATION of your messages. If it's true that you have too little time at hand then you will want to spend a few minutes to verify your settings, unless you prefer not to trust such assertion made by a Sympatico employee, euh... or maybe you just happen to love spending time on perfectly useless replies, for the fun of it... Or maybe, Sympatico is not important enough as an ~ISP~ (Bell Canada)... In any case, those conclusions about some allegated rambling, jabing and taunting shown me that the `ZMoDem' for `MS-Kermit' topic is a sensitive one... Apparently, everything else that will follow is about as good as a resume heading for the trash can. I meant no brag but i tried to make clear that a number of efforts were done, previously to my introduction. In a most similar fashion, i took great care in expressing my very basic requirements... Most unfortunately, i goofed when i used the "ZMoDem" word - which felt like casting a powerfull and ever-lasting spell... My writing about `MS-Kermit' being more performant at DownLoads than any DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~-capable terminal emulator also implied that i've been trying my best for some time. `MS-Kermit's code may have been built to be swift but my point was that little else (but `Conex') seemed to have an INTEGRATED packet-driver interface & ~TelNet~ protocol. Actualy, my opinion was that `MS-Kermit' has an advantage over the other programs because it circumvents the need for a DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~ serial-port interface, not mentioning the requirement that it's combined with a ~TelNet~ shim... Such topic is quite remote from any of your comments on code swiftness; i merely refered to a speed limitation which is a consequence of the ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~ interfaces. Now, if you want to hear about swiftness then i'll say yes, it's swifter than `Conex v7.5' used as a ~TelNet~ client! But if you wish to discuss stiffness, euh... just keep in mind that this sort of terminal emulator DOES allow for `ZMoDem'/`Kermit' file transfers in ~TelNet~ sessions (it too can be used with similar DIRECT packet-driver interfaces, actually)! Also, i submit to you that some disservice has been rendered here when i was told to forget about Novell's DOS ~ODI~/~NASI~/~NCSI~ interface: it happens that the former Novell ~PPP~ pilots which are inside the Caldera `DR_Web-Spyder' ShareWare will install on such a minimal hardware setup; i'm just unsure if the ~NASI~ portion works on an `XT' but it's not that big a ~TSR~, nor is `IPXODI' (they totalize about 63-72 Kb ~RAM~); if i consider the use of `NCSI' instead of `NASI', that's 24-33 Kb smaller... Moreover, many popular programs offer that interface: amongst those, we find `Anzio Net v11.4w', `Communiqu‚ v2.10', `Deputy v3.09' and `Odyssey v2.00'. An other terminal emulator which includes the very same feature but no `ZMoDem' protocol is `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta', of course... Maybe, the use of the ~NASI~ interface would yield no advantage, or maybe your assumption is wrong... As far as i'm concerned, i'm inclined to believe that almost anything is possible until there's proof of the contrary and i still haven't seen the least bit of a D/L cps figure to this day!... I don't know what minimal installation will provide the ~NASI~ interface for those fine terminal emulation programs. In any instance, i've got a hint that this ~NASI~ ~TelNet~ server may be as good as the best of the DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~ & ~TelNet~ shim setups and it would be prematured to overlook this option until i learn how fast `ZMoDem' file transfers can go under such unexplored conditions... Now, should you be of the opinion that the scope of this ~NG~'s topic is incompatible, i'll have to agree!... It took a heck of a time but i finally did read about your denial regarding any future `ZMoDem' file transfer protocol for the `MS-Kermit' terminal. OKay, i give up: nothing is negotiable there!... The only thing that remains to be seen is as to wether or not we'll ever find the latest `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8' source-code anywhere on INet... Yes, i must admit that i'm still a little bit curious about *THAT*! :^o [...] Advises regarding the macro were well taken. I don't see how the "- ;" comments can be disrupting it since it seems to load fine but i'll try to load without that extraneous part, if i find the time... In my mind, the hyphen ("continuation character") affair was about another problem. I also read the part about the "TOO MANY ACTIVE TAKE FILES AND MACROS"; may i add the "?Exhausted work space! Circular definition?" problem... It's nothing the least bit as convenient as i'd have expected!... 8-o To load a function everytime i'll need it doesn't really seem satisfying since it's already loaded as it is! Why does everything work the first time but fails at some point around the tenth trial?!... I may try the "SET TAKE DEBUG ON" command to check things out but, in view of the late events, it seems quite clear that i'll still need to have other programs around and using `{Commo}' for doing the work of that macro makes much more sense than trying to compensate for problems which are inherent to some overlooked internal flaw, a flaw that's going to be there forever. Maybe `MS-Kermit' didn't crash but learning that it simply never will be made equal to the `Win 9x' version, in respect to a `ZMoDem' protocol, euh... Sheesh! I'm the one to crash here!!! If that's money that your friends are after, then lets just add it to the `Win 9x' package so that the concurence from the `MS-Kermit' version will be gone! To deny USERS a `ZMoDem' protocol (from the public domain) is an error - YOUR choice. The same choices, i suppose, why your messages don't seem to reach to an addressee, euh... But nothing, i'm sure, that relates to spoofy, a good friend of goofy, himself a close relative to Jeffrey... %-b Same thing for the ~IP~ port #25... Whatever you think ~SMTP~ can be to us it's not your problem but the one of the user if he wants to use it. It happens that nothing would be simpler for me to get the mail this way (i already get the ~NG~'s articles in a very similar manner. Your logic makes as much sense as to raise an interdiction on car driving solely because there are dangers... But me i don't care a bit, i go by bus!!! %-o No is a short 2 characters answer, provided that it ever gets thru. %-7 Again, i have no choice but to regret your decisions, as i regret that i had to invest so much time just to get it... Just like you've wrote it yourself: "there are limits and this item exceeds them. It's my call". Your call indeed... but a wrong number, professor!... M. S. From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 21:27:50 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18688 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:27:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA18615 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:24:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Mark Sapiro Subject: Re: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement Date: 26 Jan 2000 02:18:18 GMT Organization: Not Very Much Message-ID: <86llha$40u$1@news.value.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Frank posted a tutorial on the features in C-Kermit for "atomic" file movement. I won't quote it here as it is readily available at http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/case10.html It seems to me however, that there must still be a window, albeit a small one during which a connection can be lost and the sender will believe the file has been successfully sent and the receiver will not or vice versa. I don't know the details of the protocol well enough to know exactly what scenario can occur, but I assume the sender sends a "file complete" packet of some kind. Perhaps this packet gets lost when the connection goes down. The sender may assume the file is successfully sent, but the receiver doesn't know it. Or perhaps the sender needs an ACK to this packet which the receiver sends and this is the packet that is lost. Then the receiver knows it has received the whole file, but the sender doesn't. Am I missing something here, or is this a problem? -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 22:27:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA29651 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:27:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA20967 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:08:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Message-ID: Date: 25 Jan 00 20:00:46 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <012500204110not-2-disclose@the.net>, not-2-disclose@the.net writes: > Hi Joe, > > About "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities" of January 1, 5, 7 and 18: > > MS> I introduce myself, i'm a DOS_InterNet user and spent about the last > MS> two years lurking/participating to the same-name echo of the > MS> `FidoNet' amateur messaging network. Since the last four years or > MS> so i looked for DOS INet FreeWare/ShareWare programs in hope that > MS> i'd get my hands on some piece of software which can be run even on > MS> a minimum setup, meaning: - 8088 4,77 Mhz ~CPU~ - 640 Kb ~RAM~... > .. > MS> TO UPGRADE THE HARDWARE OR TO SWITCH TO PROTOCOLS LIKE ~FTP~/~HTTP~ > MS> *IS NOT* AN OPTION. > JRD> 486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free for the asking... > > I finally read your messages (not just short spasmodic quoted fragments) > which you intended as a reply to my previous posts. Most unfortunately, > nothing you can write makes it to my news server; i called my ~ISP~ and > one of their clerck explained me that YOU PROBABLY ARE USING ONE OF YOUR > APPLICATION'S OPTION TO LIMIT THE PROPAGATION of your messages. If it's > true that you have too little time at hand then you will want to spend a ---------- I will make this brief. Stop accusing people. Then please understand just a bit more how News is propagated as storing and forwarding, merging and splitting of streams of messages, some of which relays drop or repeat. Hours or days may pass, relay links may be highly unreliable, etc. It is not my end of things. Zmodem isn't in the works for MS-DOS Kermit. I've said that several times now. Nor will port 25 to be opened, for what I consider good and sufficient reasons both technical and ethical. Folks may honestly disagree, but the decision stands. To decode your script problems I suggest first reducing the number of items in it, and try each piece one at a time to discover programming loops and other problems. The common name for this strategy is divide and conquer, recommended by a certain Italian general as we all recall from school. I will not go on about this, but the speed problems you are concerned about are most likely due to the simplistic implementation of the Kermit protocol in the BBS systems you contact. Had they done a better implementation things could go faster. It's not the method of putting bits on the wire, it is the nature of how much is sent when at the protocol level. That ought to help reduce the number of comms techniques to worry about (and you have a bunch in hand). At some point your 8088 machine runs out of cpu cycles and the floppy drive remains slow. Those too will place an upper limit on speed. Lastly, we have pointed you to the source code more than once. I did so on my machines: try netlab2.usu.edu, directory kermit. Try netlab1.usu.edu, directory pub/mirror/kermit. Try a web browser or anonymous ftp. I can't help more than that and I do hope you are successful this time. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Tue Jan 25 22:57:51 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA06280 for ; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:57:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA22027 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:32:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement Message-ID: Date: 25 Jan 00 20:30:49 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86llha$40u$1@news.value.net>, Mark Sapiro writes: > Frank posted a tutorial on the features in C-Kermit for "atomic" > file movement. > > I won't quote it here as it is readily available at > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/case10.html > > It seems to me however, that there must still be a window, albeit > a small one during which a connection can be lost and the sender > will believe the file has been successfully sent and the receiver > will not or vice versa. > > I don't know the details of the protocol well enough to know exactly > what scenario can occur, but I assume the sender sends a "file complete" > packet of some kind. Perhaps this packet gets lost when the connection > goes down. The sender may assume the file is successfully sent, but > the receiver doesn't know it. > > Or perhaps the sender needs an ACK to this packet which the receiver > sends and this is the packet that is lost. Then the receiver knows > it has received the whole file, but the sender doesn't. > > Am I missing something here, or is this a problem? > > -- > Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, > San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan ----------- May I relay a short story on this subject? It pervades networking and most other two party exchanges. Good, it makes a nifty one to tell the person next to you on the plane. Once upon a time there were two armies fighting a war. One army was in a valley, the other was split on two hilltops. The hill army can win if, and only if, the two components can attack in unison. Naturally they send message back and forth "Let's attack at noon" etc. They may be intercepted, faked, changed, misunderstood, and anything else we can imagine to keep the guy next to us occuppied thinking. The question is, can the hill army be guaranteed to win? If so what are the vital components of the messages passing back and forth. This problem is stated and discussed famously by Andrew Tanenbaum in his book "Computer Networks." The answer is there is no guarantee, there is no finite sequences of messages that clinch the mutual decision. It is a tail recursion of "how do I know that they know that I know that they know, etc" If there were a last required message to do the deed then it could be lost/garbled/faked, and confirmation would be needed. Thus there isn't a last required message. With that there is no "closed form" solution in any protocol at all that guarantees that what was sent is what was received and both sides know it firmly. Only approximations exist, even if many or all messages are delivered and understood correctly. The Kermit protocol has an end of file packet, signifying what it says. It requires and ACK before the protocol will proceed to the next thing to do. The ACK is well protected, but cannot be perfectly protected. It can be lost and the EOF can be repeated, etc. Successful reception of the ACK tells the file sender the receiver is pleased, but of course the file receiver won't know that until new work arrives. Here progress is implied by a rigid set of rules concerning what can be done next, and reception of the next thing to do implies the preceeding was completed by both ends. Or it could result from an error implementing the protocol or even a fortutitious garble on the wire which creates just the right message by mistake. Thus sending the ACK to EOF tells the receiver to keep the file and await new things to do. The file transmitter may miss it and keep trying until tired. The two perspectives may differ even though the file has been moved. The two perspectives will agree if the ACK is not sent; it will be "not done yet." That's my story for tonight. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 26 09:57:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12796 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:57:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA12359 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:47:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement Date: 26 Jan 2000 14:47:39 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86n1eb$c24$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86llha$40u$1@news.value.net>, Mark Sapiro wrote: : Frank posted a tutorial on the features in C-Kermit for "atomic" : file movement. : : I won't quote it here as it is readily available at : http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/case10.html : : It seems to me however, that there must still be a window, albeit : a small one during which a connection can be lost and the sender : will believe the file has been successfully sent and the receiver : will not or vice versa. : : I don't know the details of the protocol well enough to know exactly : what scenario can occur, but I assume the sender sends a "file complete" : packet of some kind. Perhaps this packet gets lost when the connection : goes down. The sender may assume the file is successfully sent, but : the receiver doesn't know it. : : Or perhaps the sender needs an ACK to this packet which the receiver : sends and this is the packet that is lost. Then the receiver knows : it has received the whole file, but the sender doesn't. : : Am I missing something here, or is this a problem? : As Joe explained, the file sender sends an End-of-File (Z) packet after the end of the file. So the sender knows the whole file was sent. The file receiver might or might not get the Z packet. If the Z packet does not arrive, the protocol times out and recovery action is taken; ultimately the Z packet is retransmitted until an affirmative response is received, or the retranmission limit is exceeded, or the connection is observed to be broken. In any of these failure cases, the sender knows the transfer was not successful, and therefore does not delete, move, or rename the source file. Once the file receiver gets the Z packet, it acknowledges it. The file sender might or might not get the acknowledgement. If it doesn't, the protocol times out and recovery action is taken. If the recovery action fails, the sender does not know if the transfer was successful, and therefore does not delete, move, or rename the source file. If the sender receives the acknowledgement, it knows that the receiver got the whole file, and so it can delete, move, or rename it. Therefore, any error condition -- including loss of connectivity -- triggers the conservative response: keep the source file. It is better to send it more than once than less than once. By design, the protocol might seem to fail when it succeeds, but it should never seem to succeed when it fails. By the way, what makes Kermit somewhat immune to the two-armies problem, also known as the three-way-handshake problem, is that the Z packet and its ACK are not the final stage of Kermit protocol; the file receiver does exit the protocol or close the connection after acknowledging the Z packet. In fact, the whole protocol is protected by an "outer layer" that has no consequences at the file level. If this outer layer is disturbed at the end (in the typical case, by premature disconnection) there might be an annoying delay, but no harm is done. - Frank P.S. I should have mentioned in the original posting that the rename operation does not work across physical disks in operating systems such as Unix; this was corrected in the web-page version. From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 26 13:27:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA25732 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:27:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA23335 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:09:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement Message-ID: Date: 26 Jan 00 10:51:36 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu > By the way, what makes Kermit somewhat immune to the two-armies problem, > also known as the three-way-handshake problem, is that the Z packet and > its ACK are not the final stage of Kermit protocol; the file receiver does > exit the protocol or close the connection after acknowledging the Z > packet. In fact, the whole protocol is protected by an "outer layer" that > has no consequences at the file level. If this outer layer is disturbed > at the end (in the typical case, by premature disconnection) there might > be an annoying delay, but no harm is done. > > - Frank --------- A "friendly amendment." While the Kermit protocol, and TCP, do an acceptable job of confirming stages of work are completed, those techniques do not remove ambiguity. Frank correctly states "somewhat immune." Old packets whose sequence numbers have wrapped to the proper current value, badly garbled ones with apparently legit contents (CRC checks are hardly perfect), and packets delivered by mistake to the wrong session, are three serious concerns for protocol designers because they confuse the normal stage by stage confirmations. TCP uses three way handshakes, extra steps to extend sequence numbers in some circumstances, and pseudo headers, to help reduce false indications. Kermit does a pretty good job too, but not to the extent that TCP goes. The two hill army problem remains when one gets serious about comms. As stated, there is no certainty in the exchange, only approximation to it. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 26 13:58:00 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03232 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA24781 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:37:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: C-Kermit for OpenBSD Organization: Pacifier Online From: mikef@pacifier.com (Mike Freeman) Message-ID: <388f3c66.0@news.pacifier.com> Date: 26 Jan 2000 10:26:46 PST To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I've tried to build C-kermit (latest version) on an OpenBSD system with the following results: Script started on Wed Jan 26 09:56:32 2000 pacifier:/users3/m/mikef/tmp> make openbsd "makefile", line 750: Missing dependency operator "makefile", line 751: Missing dependency operator "makefile", line 752: Missing dependency operator "makefile", line 753: Missing dependency operator "makefile", line 754: Missing dependency operator "makefile", line 755: Missing dependency operator Fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue pacifier:/users3/m/mikef/tmp> exit exit Script done on Wed Jan 26 09:57:07 2000 What is going on here? TIA. -- Mike Freeman; Internet: mikef@pacifier.com; Amateur Radio Callsign: K7UIJ /* PGP2.6.2 Public Key available via my ".plan" file */ "Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits." -- Mark Twain From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 26 14:27:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08561 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:27:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA26939 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:21:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: C-Kermit for OpenBSD Date: 26 Jan 2000 19:21:19 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86nhff$q9o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <388f3c66.0@news.pacifier.com>, Mike Freeman wrote: : I've tried to build C-kermit (latest version) on an OpenBSD system with : the following results: : : Script started on Wed Jan 26 09:56:32 2000 : pacifier:/users3/m/mikef/tmp> make openbsd : "makefile", line 750: Missing dependency operator : "makefile", line 751: Missing dependency operator : "makefile", line 752: Missing dependency operator : "makefile", line 753: Missing dependency operator : "makefile", line 754: Missing dependency operator : "makefile", line 755: Missing dependency operator : Fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue : pacifier:/users3/m/mikef/tmp> exit : exit : : Script done on Wed Jan 26 09:57:07 2000 : : What is going on here? : Most likely the makefile is in DOS format (CRLFs) but needs to be in UNIX format (LFs). Another common problem with makefiles is that tabs somehow get expanded to spaces. 'make' is a very handy tool, but it should not have been designed to distinguish between space and tab, or LF, CR, or CRLF. By the way, if your copy of the makefile is in DOS format, then it is likely that the source files are too. Most C compilers on UNIX are highly intolerant of CRLFs, for no good reason at all. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 26 19:58:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16490 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:58:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA13572 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:40:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <012600183912not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:31:14 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi again Joe, About "MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of January 26: MS> ...NOTHING you can write makes it to my news server; i called my MS> ~ISP~ and one of their clerck explained to me that YOU PROBABLY ARE MS> USING ONE OF YOUR APPLICATION'S OPTION TO LIMIT THE PROPAGATION... JRD> Stop accusing people. Then please understand just a bit more how JRD> News is propagated... Hours or days may pass... Well, you have a point; i should feel so sorry about that "accusation"! I must be too dumb to figure out why you won't find one single occurance of the "jrd@" string in the following list - ~ISP~'s are so rude... Let me express you some appologies in their behalf! I guess i'm supposed to feel guilty myself for pointing at such a unCONVENIENT propagation flaw: ************************************************************************ 200 Bell Nexxia News Server -- news://news1.sympatico.ca/ (Typhoon v1.2.2) Group comp.protocols.kermit.misc 211 218 20527 20754 comp.protocols.kermit.misc xover 224 Overview Information Follows 20527 * * * M E R R Y C H R I S T M A S * * * Santa@TheNorthPole.Org 25 Dec 1999 00:29:36 GMT 674 7 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20527 20533 gkermit speed "DGlenn" Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:56:59 -0700 1345 19 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20533 20534 Re: gkermit speed fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 30 Dec 1999 13:09:41 -0500 <84g755$ca0@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> 1733 26 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20534 20535 Re: gkermit speed "DGlenn" Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:56:30 -0700 <84g755$ca0@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> 2149 43 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20535 20536 Re: gkermit speed fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 30 Dec 1999 20:24:27 GMT <84gf1r$co7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <84g755$ca0@watsun.cc.columbia.edu> 1424 15 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20536 20537 Re: Announcing G-Kermit 1.00 escargo@mirage.skypoint.net (David S Cargo) 28 Dec 1999 16:03:56 GMT <84an1c$lrc$1@shadow.skypoint.net> <848l49$pdr$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1511 21 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20537 20538 c-kermit for solaris 2.6 and beyond? awouk@syzygy.nilenet.com (Arthur Wouk) Sat, 01 Jan 2000 04:41:30 GMT <_zfb4.1545$wv4.220358@den-news1.rmi.net> 1261 10 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20538 20539 Re: c-kermit for solaris 2.6 and beyond? fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 1 Jan 2000 14:44:52 GMT <84l3t4$d1v$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <_zfb4.1545$wv4.220358@den-news1.rmi.net> 1373 14 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20539 20540 Re: c-kermit for solaris 2.6 and beyond? Clarence Dold 1 Jan 2000 20:33:24 GMT <84loak$4f1$1@samba.rahul.net> <_zfb4.1545$wv4.220358@den-news1.rmi.net> 1296 13 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20540 20541 MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Sat, 01 Jan 2000 22:45:24 GMT <010100173225not-2-disclose@the.net> 13783 265 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20541 20542 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 1 Jan 2000 22:51:55 GMT <84m0eb$46t$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <010100173225not-2-disclose@the.net> 2473 32 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20542 20543 MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Sun, 02 Jan 2000 06:41:32 GMT <010200013343not-2-disclose@the.net> 6133 108 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20543 20544 New stuff for our newsgroup b.k.Hoover@unet.com 2 Jan 2000 16:32:35 GMT <5I0I5GZ6.99L9A87I@unet.com> 763 5 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20544 20545 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 2 Jan 2000 17:49:50 GMT <84o33u$k3s$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <010200013343not-2-disclose@the.net> 1944 26 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20545 20546 ÖSTERREICH, DEUTSCHLAND, SCHWEIZ! 20 FREE PICS! Wichtige Information! 02 Jan 2000 17:42:34 GMT <386f8e0a$0$27620@SSP1NO17.highway.telekom.at> 838 5 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20546 20548 Announcing C-Kermit 7.0 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 3 Jan 2000 22:03:11 GMT <84r6av$q89$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 6630 144 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20548 20549 Nikon Coolpix950 help info@ibuyer.net (iBuyer Support Team) Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:57:21 GMT <387128d0.6890618@news.planetdial.com> 1678 27 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20549 20550 MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Tue, 04 Jan 2000 06:26:59 GMT <010400011923not-2-disclose@the.net> 5957 95 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20550 20551 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 04 Jan 2000 06:57:12 GMT <84m0eb$46t$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2780 42 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20551 20552 This is your chance, so don't pass it up! 4 Jan 2000 03:26:18 GMT <84rp8q$mv3$534@linuxfr.org> 21880 452 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20552 20553 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 4 Jan 2000 14:17:42 GMT <84sve6$9f0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <84m0eb$46t$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1726 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20553 20554 msk315 vs. ckermit 7 question Gunter Steinbach Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:14:42 -0700 <38722A81.C2949098@labs.agilent.com> 2441 41 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20554 20555 Re: msk315 vs. ckermit 7 question fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 4 Jan 2000 18:09:42 GMT <84td16$l2u$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <38722A81.C2949098@labs.agilent.com> 2370 34 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20555 20556 !!!!!!1500 SEXY PICS FREE TO DOWNLOAD NOW!!!!! eqeq@lll.com Tue, 04 Jan 2000 19:49:05 GMT 752 2 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20556 20557 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:37:23 GMT <7Uzc4.5217$S3.230092@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <84o33u$k3s$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1920 27 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20557 20558 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 5 Jan 2000 14:31:09 GMT <84vkjd$7ta$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <84o33u$k3s$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <7Uzc4.5217$S3.230092@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 1712 18 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20558 20559 Kermit 95 1.1.18 - Looking for testers jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 5 Jan 2000 22:45:12 GMT <850hho$2ub$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 4812 105 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20559 20560 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:54:37 GMT <84sve6$9f0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 3319 65 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20560 20561 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities arthur marsh Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:23:01 +0100 <84sve6$9f0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 3179 56 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20561 20562 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities thebluesbrothers@my-deja.com Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:55:13 GMT <852oe9$88e$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <010400011923not-2-disclose@the.net> 1448 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20562 20563 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Fri, 07 Jan 2000 05:47:34 GMT <84vkjd$7ta$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2389 38 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20563 20564 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 7 Jan 2000 06:18:32 GMT <8540fo$17o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <84vkjd$7ta$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1761 21 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20564 20565 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 7 Jan 2000 15:02:31 GMT <854v67$dvc$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <84vkjd$7ta$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1210 11 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20565 20566 Kermit 314 - 315 date {bug} Stones@mindless.REMOVE.com Fri, 07 Jan 2000 15:57:41 GMT <3877090d.2756801@news.netdirect.net.uk> 1343 28 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20566 20567 ,.IF AOL WAS A CAR..,, WalterChristler@hmfscp.net Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:24:30 GMT <7EF59FF397.rmdsfwm@pojrpxuacj.gov> 4127 116 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20567 20568 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:52:10 GMT 1583 20 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20568 20569 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 7 Jan 2000 20:26:31 GMT <855i5n$14i$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1998 26 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20569 20570 C-Kermit 7.0 Case Study #01 - Cleaning Out Beta-Test Binaries fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 7 Jan 2000 23:53:58 GMT <855uam$b04$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 6604 136 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20570 20572 BUILD YOUR OWN C`A.B,L,E B,O`X...FREE C`A.B,L.E`...... 9918 sowzje@dfgdfg.com Sat, 08 Jan 2000 19:00:11 GMT <%OLd4.22410$J%4.10419@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> 2613 59 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com cl.europa.deutschland:13725 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20572 20573 Case Study #2: Kerbang Scripts fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 8 Jan 2000 20:56:09 GMT <858899$695$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 7135 150 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20573 20574 Re: Case Study #2: Kerbang Scripts Mark Sapiro Sat, 08 Jan 2000 14:16:19 -0800 <3877B733.56654AB1@value.net> <858899$695$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1304 22 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20574 20575 Re: Case Study #2: Kerbang Scripts fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 8 Jan 2000 22:34:07 GMT <858e0v$ais$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <858899$695$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <3877B733.56654AB1@value.net> 1515 21 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20575 20576 Case Study #03: Autodownload fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 9 Jan 2000 15:32:17 GMT <85a9m1$nhl$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 8390 158 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20576 20577 C`A,B.L`E DE-SCRAMBLER INSTRUCTIONS...... FREE C`A-B,L.E`..................... 7299 lplqqw@sdfsdf.com Sun, 09 Jan 2000 16:40:35 GMT <7S2e4.42854$J%4.49640@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> 3150 55 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20577 20578 Rejecting file: date/time creider@julian.uwo.ca (c.a. creider) 10 Jan 2000 17:48:26 GMT <85d61a$k45$1@panther.uwo.ca> 991 10 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20578 20579 Re: Rejecting file: date/time fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 10 Jan 2000 18:04:24 GMT <85d6v8$p5b$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85d61a$k45$1@panther.uwo.ca> 1664 29 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20579 20580 Question on ckermit 7 redirect in background Charlie Sears Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:22:47 -0500 <387A77D7.52E5B806@matsch.com> 1611 21 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20580 20581 Re: Question on ckermit 7 redirect in background fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 11 Jan 2000 01:15:54 GMT <85e08a$ho7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <387A77D7.52E5B806@matsch.com> 2170 36 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20581 20582 Case Study #4: Automatic text/binary mode switching fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 11 Jan 2000 02:03:46 GMT <85e322$k0k$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 5194 87 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20582 20583 Question on lockfiles... Anders Faltros Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:40:18 +0100 <387AFA82.9797A1CE@lu.erisoft.se> 1299 20 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20583 20584 Re: Question on lockfiles... fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 11 Jan 2000 14:54:37 GMT <85fg7d$o01$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <387AFA82.9797A1CE@lu.erisoft.se> 1957 28 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20584 20585 FTP over C-kermit Peter Burkholder Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:03:53 -0800 <387BA8C9.40F54E02@seanet.com> 1769 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20585 20586 Case Study #5: Directory Recursion fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 11 Jan 2000 22:11:47 GMT <85g9r3$g1v$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 7159 117 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20586 20587 Re: FTP over C-kermit fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 11 Jan 2000 22:18:36 GMT <85ga7s$gc4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <387BA8C9.40F54E02@seanet.com> 1644 25 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20587 20588 Re: FTP over C-kermit jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 11 Jan 2000 22:53:01 GMT <85gc8d$id1$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <387BA8C9.40F54E02@seanet.com> <85ga7s$gc4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 3342 71 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20588 20589 Arabic support in Kermit JODY@lib.haifa.ac.il 12 Jan 2000 11:33:44 GMT <85hoqo$ouc$1@techftp.technion.ac.il> 1835 27 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20589 20590 Re: Arabic support in Kermit jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 12 Jan 2000 14:50:43 GMT <85i4c3$les$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85hoqo$ouc$1@techftp.technion.ac.il> 2383 35 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20590 20591 Re: Arabic support in Kermit fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 12 Jan 2000 15:21:23 GMT <85i65j$muu$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85hoqo$ouc$1@techftp.technion.ac.il> <85i4c3$les$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 4127 65 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20591 20592 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:57:19 GMT <3Pdf4.3605$KP.188008@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 1625 19 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20592 20593 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:57:21 GMT <5Pdf4.3606$KP.188008@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <855i5n$14i$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1183 13 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20593 20594 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:57:28 GMT 2474 37 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20594 20595 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:57:31 GMT <854v67$dvc$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1552 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20595 20596 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 13 Jan 2000 06:07:01 GMT <85jq25$6nn$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1919 29 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20596 20597 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 13 Jan 2000 06:11:26 GMT <85jqae$6rl$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <3Pdf4.3605$KP.188008@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 2595 33 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20597 20598 Re: Arabic support in Kermit fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 13 Jan 2000 15:11:47 GMT <85kpvj$ct$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85hoqo$ouc$1@techftp.technion.ac.il> <85i4c3$les$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85i65j$muu$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1790 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20598 20599 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 13 Jan 2000 15:14:17 GMT <85kq49$hp$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <854v67$dvc$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1557 19 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20599 20600 USB and internal modems "Steve Baus" Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:09:58 -0800 1238 13 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20600 20601 Case Study #6: Streaming fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 14 Jan 2000 00:50:40 GMT <85lrt0$sj3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 4015 64 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20601 20602 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Fri, 14 Jan 2000 05:28:56 GMT <85jq25$6nn$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2150 26 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20602 20603 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Fri, 14 Jan 2000 05:28:58 GMT <85jqae$6rl$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2112 33 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20603 20604 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Fri, 14 Jan 2000 05:29:01 GMT <85jq25$6nn$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1804 32 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20604 20605 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 14 Jan 2000 06:40:07 GMT <85mgc7$fpt$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85jqae$6rl$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1446 13 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20605 20606 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:19:31 GMT <66Af4.3341$0l4.96678@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <7qW8C+KG8QyZ@cc.usu.edu> 3136 49 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20606 20607 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 14 Jan 2000 08:13:16 GMT <85mlqs$il9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <7qW8C+KG8QyZ@cc.usu.edu> <66Af4.3341$0l4.96678@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 1752 24 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20607 20608 Re: USB and internal modems Stones@mindless.REMOVE.com Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:36:26 GMT <38803297.11421972@news.netdirect.net.uk> 2244 31 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20608 20609 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Clarence Dold 14 Jan 2000 17:08:08 GMT <85nl5o$oau$1@samba.rahul.net> <7qW8C+KG8QyZ@cc.usu.edu> <66Af4.3341$0l4.96678@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 1858 27 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20609 20610 .. Usenet Authorities Are Cracking Down On SPAM >From @Home .. UsenetCentralControl_comp@cdxvfauh.edu 14 Jan 2000 17:17:17 GMT 6281 117 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20610 20611 test TD 14 Jan 2000 19:14:33 GMT <85nsip$2j4q$1752@news.nikoma.de> 661 1 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20611 20612 Re: USB and internal modems "Steve Baus" Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:33:59 -0800 <38803297.11421972@news.netdirect.net.uk> 2406 51 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20612 20613 Case Study #7: Internet Kermit Service fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 14 Jan 2000 22:15:48 GMT <85o76k$jc0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 5872 112 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20613 20614 MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Sat, 15 Jan 2000 08:20:54 GMT <011500030242not-2-disclose@the.net> 19568 495 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20614 20615 Woah crushen@onvoy.com Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:06:00 GMT <388054d5.12367371@news.onvoy.com> 10396 172 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20615 20617 Case Study 8: Unicode fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 15 Jan 2000 21:07:28 GMT <85qnig$ln8$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 7032 127 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20617 20618 C-Kermit 7 very slow - what can be done? awouk@syzygy.nilenet.com (Arthur Wouk) Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:05:39 GMT 1808 22 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20618 20619 Re: C-Kermit 7 very slow - what can be done? fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 15 Jan 2000 22:23:48 GMT <85qs1k$p47$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2291 31 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20619 20620 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Sun, 16 Jan 2000 02:35:11 GMT <85mgc7$fpt$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1754 24 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20620 20621 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Sun, 16 Jan 2000 03:14:02 GMT <_Hag4.2677$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <85mlqs$il9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2917 47 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20621 20622 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Sun, 16 Jan 2000 03:14:05 GMT <1Iag4.2678$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <85nl5o$oau$1@samba.rahul.net> 1939 33 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20622 20623 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Sun, 16 Jan 2000 03:14:08 GMT <4Iag4.2679$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 2289 40 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20623 20624 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 16 Jan 2000 06:37:22 GMT <85rov2$hj2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85mgc7$fpt$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1852 20 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20624 20625 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 16 Jan 2000 06:40:36 GMT <85rp54$hm2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85mlqs$il9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <_Hag4.2677$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 1931 24 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20625 20626 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 16 Jan 2000 06:44:43 GMT <85rpcr$ho4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85nl5o$oau$1@samba.rahul.net> <1Iag4.2678$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 2340 34 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20626 20627 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 16 Jan 2000 06:48:52 GMT <85rpkk$hue$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <4Iag4.2679$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 2101 26 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20627 20628 LEGAL C`A`B`L`E TV D`E-S`C`R`A`M`B`L`E`R 6065 wwjjoe@w3r9oyas2b3.com 16 Jan 2000 09:05:27 GMT <85s1kn$cb4$5412@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net> 2816 58 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kerberos:22823 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20628 20629 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Mark Sapiro Sun, 16 Jan 2000 14:01:00 -0800 <38823F9C.B4A8C1DF@value.net> <85mlqs$il9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <_Hag4.2677$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 3279 49 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20629 20630 Case Study #9: Printing fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 16 Jan 2000 23:40:08 GMT <85tkso$2g6$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 7440 146 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20630 20631 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:38 GMT 2429 45 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20631 20632 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:41 GMT <85rpkk$hue$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2445 36 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20632 20633 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:45 GMT <85rpcr$ho4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2734 49 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20633 20634 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:47 GMT <%ntg4.4438$NU6.161022@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <85rov2$hj2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1832 26 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20634 20635 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:51 GMT <2otg4.4439$NU6.161022@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 2785 47 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20635 20636 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:29:59 GMT <38823F9C.B4A8C1DF@value.net> 3668 65 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20636 20637 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:30:03 GMT <85rp54$hm2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2550 44 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20637 20638 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 00:30:07 GMT 3860 64 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20638 20639 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Mark Sapiro Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:02:19 -0800 <38826A1B.C381B8C8@value.net> <38823F9C.B4A8C1DF@value.net> 2781 34 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20639 20640 MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:20:53 GMT <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> 20472 369 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20640 20641 Re: Question on lockfiles... peter eichhorn Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:18:46 +0100 <3882EC85.5A3E@assyst-intl.com> <387AFA82.9797A1CE@lu.erisoft.se> 1819 25 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20641 20642 Bootstrapping CP/M Kermit .... "Paul Bigwood" Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:11:09 -0000 <948121940.19822.0.nnrp-11.9e983d0c@news.demon.co.uk> 1529 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20642 20643 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 17 Jan 2000 16:04:14 GMT <85vehu$55p$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> 5853 103 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20643 20644 Re: Bootstrapping CP/M Kermit .... fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 17 Jan 2000 16:08:25 GMT <85vepp$5ee$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <948121940.19822.0.nnrp-11.9e983d0c@news.demon.co.uk> 1665 20 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20644 20645 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 17 Jan 2000 16:34:19 GMT <85vgab$6h8$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> 3395 53 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20645 20646 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities no_spam@adams.patriot.net () Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:39:20 GMT <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> <85vehu$55p$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2209 40 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20646 20647 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 17 Jan 2000 19:06:41 GMT <85vp81$df6$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> <85vehu$55p$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1930 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20647 20648 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:44:36 GMT 4442 88 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20648 20649 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:44:44 GMT <0bLg4.6413$NU6.261988@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <38826A1B.C381B8C8@value.net> 5514 107 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20649 20650 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:44:49 GMT <4bLg4.6414$NU6.261988@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> 4812 88 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20650 20651 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 17 Jan 2000 20:55:48 GMT <85vvkk$iju$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2719 43 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20651 20652 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr) 17 Jan 2000 20:59:59 GMT <85vvsf$jml$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> <4Iag4.2679$NU6.52105@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 1894 35 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20652 20653 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 17 Jan 2000 21:37:49 GMT <86023d$kkf$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> <4bLg4.6414$NU6.261988@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 3449 46 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20653 20654 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr) 17 Jan 2000 21:38:05 GMT <86023t$na8$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> <011700040222not-2-disclose@the.net> 5318 127 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20654 20655 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Clarence Dold 17 Jan 2000 22:50:34 GMT <8606bq$iqv$1@samba.rahul.net> <85vvkk$iju$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1234 15 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20655 20656 Re: Kermit 314 - 315 date {bug} vjp2@smtp.dorsai.org (Vasos Panagiotopoulos +1-917-287-8087 Bioengineer-Financier) 17 Jan 2000 22:00:29 GMT <8603dt2h7c@enews1.newsguy.com> <3877090d.2756801@news.netdirect.net.uk> 1523 14 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20656 20657 Re: Kermit 314 - 315 date {bug} jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 17 Jan 2000 23:28:33 GMT <8608j1$pqv$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <3877090d.2756801@news.netdirect.net.uk> <8603dt2h7c@enews1.newsguy.com> 1609 17 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20657 20658 Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 18 Jan 2000 00:06:57 GMT <860ar1$rlj$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 5135 91 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20658 20659 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:24:14 GMT <85vehu$55p$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 6051 124 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20659 20660 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:24:22 GMT <85vgab$6h8$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 8900 167 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20660 20661 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:24:24 GMT <85vp81$df6$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1886 32 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20661 20662 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:24:28 GMT <0pOg4.6714$NU6.285660@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 3649 69 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20662 20663 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 18 Jan 2000 01:48:20 GMT <860gp4$30h$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85vehu$55p$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 8218 155 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20663 20664 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 18 Jan 2000 02:22:48 GMT <860ipo$4l5$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <85vgab$6h8$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1713 18 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20664 20665 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:11 GMT <_pYg4.8106$NU6.340406@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <86023d$kkf$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 4970 89 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20665 20666 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:16 GMT <2qYg4.8108$NU6.340406@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> <86023t$na8$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> 3770 95 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20666 20667 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:23 GMT <85vvkk$iju$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 3724 73 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20667 20668 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:25 GMT 1537 25 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20668 20669 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:48:28 GMT <85vvsf$jml$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> 2064 35 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20669 20670 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:11:36 GMT 4899 90 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20670 20671 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:11:40 GMT 2937 63 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20671 20672 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:11:44 GMT <860ipo$4l5$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2318 39 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20672 20673 MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:24:16 GMT <011800100726not-2-disclose@the.net> 17842 303 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20673 20674 More C-Kermit 7.0 binaries needed fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 18 Jan 2000 16:07:00 GMT <862334$bm9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2788 49 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.os.vms:257852 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20674 20675 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Clarence Dold 18 Jan 2000 18:24:32 GMT <862b50$2dm$1@samba.rahul.net> 1484 20 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20675 20676 Case Study #11: C-Kermit Meets SSH fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 18 Jan 2000 21:24:36 GMT <862lmk$rr1$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 5374 105 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20676 20677 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities kees@echelon.nl (Kees Hendrikse) 18 Jan 2000 21:39:36 GMT <85vvsf$jml$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> 1674 17 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20677 20678 Does anybody have AIXLink/X.25? fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 18 Jan 2000 22:03:08 GMT <862nus$k0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2150 44 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.unix.aix:188039 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20678 20679 Spin Doctors cangel@famvid.com Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:46:34 GMT <860gp4$30h$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 16431 360 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20679 20680 Re: Spin Doctors fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 19 Jan 2000 00:16:23 GMT <862von$75l$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <860gp4$30h$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1752 34 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20680 20681 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:52:05 GMT <8vfvgbrIQWo8@cc.usu.edu> 7878 169 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20681 20682 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:52:08 GMT <862b50$2dm$1@samba.rahul.net> 1933 32 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20682 20683 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:01:07 GMT 1773 28 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20683 20684 Re: Spin Doctors cangel@famvid.com Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:17:19 GMT <862von$75l$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2409 50 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20684 20685 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Mark Sapiro Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:30:44 -0800 <388513C4.E1D40DC3@value.net> <38826A1B.C381B8C8@value.net> <0bLg4.6413$NU6.261988@tw12.nn.bcandid.com> 1431 15 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20685 20686 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 19 Jan 2000 05:04:53 GMT <863gll$ld3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <8vfvgbrIQWo8@cc.usu.edu> 15147 281 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20686 20687 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:17:10 GMT 3330 63 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20687 20688 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:17:18 GMT <863gll$ld3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 10261 244 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20688 20689 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities cangel@famvid.com Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:17:21 GMT <3GGzgJqbIL1a@cc.usu.edu> 2542 42 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20689 20690 MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Wed, 19 Jan 2000 14:28:04 GMT <011900092128not-2-disclose@the.net> 4666 80 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20690 20691 strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 awouk@syzygy.nilenet.com (Arthur Wouk) Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:31:40 GMT 1534 18 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20691 20692 Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 19 Jan 2000 20:06:23 GMT <8655fv$mfr$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2107 40 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20692 20693 Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 19 Jan 2000 20:07:42 GMT <8655ie$mib$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2195 33 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20693 20694 Re: Spin Doctors weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr) 19 Jan 2000 20:14:19 GMT <8655ur$egq$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> <860gp4$30h$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <862von$75l$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1467 32 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20694 20695 Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 gerlach@netcom.com (Matthew H. Gerlach) 19 Jan 2000 20:57:55 GMT <8658gj$bjt$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <8655ie$mib$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2456 44 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20695 20696 Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 19 Jan 2000 21:56:35 GMT <865buj$s5e$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <8655ie$mib$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <8658gj$bjt$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> 1750 20 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20696 20697 Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 gerlach@netcom.com (Matthew H. Gerlach) 19 Jan 2000 23:11:09 GMT <865gad$d56$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net> <8655ie$mib$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <8658gj$bjt$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <865buj$s5e$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2266 37 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20697 20698 Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 19 Jan 2000 23:25:32 GMT <865h5c$3n9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <8658gj$bjt$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <865buj$s5e$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <865gad$d56$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net> 2509 34 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20698 20699 Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 Ric Anderson Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:03:46 -0700 <388650E2.2D355F45@opus1.com> 2021 31 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20699 20700 Re: Spin Doctors cangel@famvid.com Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:24:52 GMT <8655ur$egq$1@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de> 1210 19 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20700 20701 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities cangel@famvid.com Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:24:57 GMT <011900092128not-2-disclose@the.net> 5218 100 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20701 20702 Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 awouk@syzygy.nilenet.com (Arthur Wouk) Thu, 20 Jan 2000 06:15:42 GMT <8658gj$bjt$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <865buj$s5e$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <865gad$d56$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net> 2869 51 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20702 20703 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities fred smith Thu, 20 Jan 2000 03:04:29 GMT <011900092128not-2-disclose@the.net> 5511 101 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20703 20704 MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:36:06 GMT <012000052518not-2-disclose@the.net> 9742 185 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20704 20705 MNP Michal Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:12:51 GMT <3887C038.9B555184@willow.iie.pz.zgora.pl> 3396 59 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20705 20706 Re: Bootstrapping CP/M Kermit .... mikef@pacifier.com (Mike Freeman) 20 Jan 2000 09:22:35 PST <3887445b.0@news.pacifier.com> <948121940.19822.0.nnrp-11.9e983d0c@news.demon.co.uk> 2702 48 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20706 20707 Announcing C-Kermit 7.0 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 20 Jan 2000 22:52:03 GMT <8683ij$aet$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2653 53 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.sys.stratus:16743 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20707 20708 Case Study #12: C-Kermit's Telnet Client fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 20 Jan 2000 23:23:13 GMT <8685d1$c07$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 6585 120 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20708 20709 C-Kermit 7 and character set translation m.arriaga@ip.pt Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:40:34 GMT <8689u0$vdo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 1551 21 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20709 20710 Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 21 Jan 2000 01:22:59 GMT <868cdj$i45$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <8689u0$vdo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 1919 30 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20710 20711 Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities cangel@famvid.com Fri, 21 Jan 2000 09:16:20 GMT <012000052518not-2-disclose@the.net> 1548 28 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20711 20712 MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:34:37 GMT <012100062938not-2-disclose@the.net> 2055 30 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20712 20713 Case Study #13: PPP Dialing fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 21 Jan 2000 18:09:01 GMT <86a7bt$o4o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 5424 101 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20713 20714 Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing "Dale A. Dellutri" 21 Jan 2000 18:22:19 GMT <86a84r$hpg$1@eve.enteract.com> <86a7bt$o4o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1284 15 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20714 20715 Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 21 Jan 2000 18:56:38 GMT <86aa56$q8a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86a7bt$o4o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86a84r$hpg$1@eve.enteract.com> 1957 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20715 20716 Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 21 Jan 2000 19:16:33 GMT <86abah$r86$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86a7bt$o4o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86a84r$hpg$1@eve.enteract.com> <86aa56$q8a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1656 19 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20716 20717 Re: strange behavior of ckermit7 on solaris2.5.1 gerlach@netcom.com (Matthew H. Gerlach) 21 Jan 2000 19:23:34 GMT <86abnm$t5m$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net> <865buj$s5e$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <865gad$d56$1@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net> 1292 16 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20717 20718 Re: Case Study series, an observation fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 21 Jan 2000 19:31:39 GMT <86ac6r$s2q$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1860 19 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20718 20719 Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation m.arriaga@ip.pt Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:51:40 GMT <86adc6$go1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8689u0$vdo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <868cdj$i45$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1739 34 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20719 20720 Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 21 Jan 2000 20:05:36 GMT <86ae6g$qm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <8689u0$vdo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <868cdj$i45$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86adc6$go1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 1437 16 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20720 20721 Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation m.arriaga@ip.pt Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:18:01 GMT <86b0fv$v28$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8689u0$vdo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <868cdj$i45$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86adc6$go1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <86ae6g$qm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 2338 58 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20721 20723 Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 22 Jan 2000 19:05:04 GMT <86cv10$190$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <8689u0$vdo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <86adc6$go1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <86ae6g$qm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86b0fv$v28$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 3489 85 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20723 20725 Re: C-Kermit 7 and character set translation m.arriaga@ip.pt Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:13:30 GMT <86enol$dlk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8689u0$vdo$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <86adc6$go1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <86ae6g$qm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86b0fv$v28$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <86cv10$190$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1286 17 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20725 20726 How to run dos commands on client from unix host? dubal@my-deja.com Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:12:44 GMT <86euo8$hq9$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 1274 15 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20726 20727 Re: How to run dos commands on client from unix host? fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 23 Jan 2000 17:08:35 GMT <86fcij$s5d$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86euo8$hq9$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 2126 36 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20727 20728 ARE YOU A YOUNG TEEN MODEL WHO WANTS TO MAKE IT BIG? 14976 abuse@freeservers.com Sunday, 23 Jan 2000 12:35:42 -0600 <23010012.3542@freeservers.com> 2376 25 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kerberos:22835 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20728 comp.protocols.misc:19040 20729 Case Study #14: Character Sets fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 24 Jan 2000 00:28:33 GMT <86g6bh$j7s$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 9005 173 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20729 20730 Raising SSH question, again "Henry E. Thorpe" Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:00:24 -0500 <388BB238.5B7DA3DF@att.net> 1024 6 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20730 20731 Re: Raising SSH question, again jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 24 Jan 2000 04:00:44 GMT <86gipc$4ht$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <388BB238.5B7DA3DF@att.net> 1676 20 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20731 20732 Re: File deletion script fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 24 Jan 2000 15:25:58 GMT <86hqu6$oht$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1485 24 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.unix.aix:188471 comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20732 20733 Can't remote delete in K95 quertyq@hotmail.com Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:27:15 GMT <86i21b$n1j$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 1272 20 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20733 20734 Need help on CKERMIT cateyes5612@my-deja.com Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:03:00 GMT <86i44g$orq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 2018 43 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20734 20735 Re: Can't remote delete in K95 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 24 Jan 2000 18:10:45 GMT <86i4j5$42o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86i21b$n1j$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 1332 17 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20735 20736 Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing ERA Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:22:12 GMT <388C97FD.CCDA1ADD@eracc.bizland.com> <86a7bt$o4o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86a84r$hpg$1@eve.enteract.com> <86aa56$q8a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86abah$r86$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 3411 51 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20736 20737 Re: Need help on CKERMIT fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 24 Jan 2000 18:31:15 GMT <86i5pj$524$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86i44g$orq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 1761 28 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20737 20738 Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) 24 Jan 2000 18:35:26 GMT <86i61e$5b0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86a7bt$o4o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86aa56$q8a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86abah$r86$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <388C97FD.CCDA1ADD@eracc.bizland.com> 2281 26 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20738 20739 Re: Need help on CKERMIT ERA Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:43:32 GMT <388C9D01.3C4F6BD1@eracc.bizland.com> <86i44g$orq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> 2430 38 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20739 20740 Re: Need help on CKERMIT fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 24 Jan 2000 18:52:49 GMT <86i721$666$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86i44g$orq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <388C9D01.3C4F6BD1@eracc.bizland.com> 1668 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20740 20741 Re: Need help on CKERMIT cateyes5612@my-deja.com Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:14:07 GMT <86imbq$7kf$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <86i44g$orq$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <388C9D01.3C4F6BD1@eracc.bizland.com> <86i721$666$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1943 36 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20741 20742 Case Study #15: File Selection fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 24 Jan 2000 23:23:30 GMT <86imti$kc4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 6585 131 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20742 20743 websites 5658 njlspm@worldnet.att.net 25 Jan 2000 02:02:02 GMT <86j06q$bs2$2465@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> 800 3 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20743 comp.protocols.misc:19044 comp.protocols.nfs:30068 20744 websites 5264 ggdmkt@worldnet.att.net 25 Jan 2000 04:25:57 GMT <86j8kl$p8k$2465@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> 864 4 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20744 comp.protocols.misc:19045 comp.protocols.nfs:30070 20745 ODI configuration for MS-Kermit? David Stow 25 Jan 2000 12:27:57 GMT <86k4sd$f90$1@sylvester.vcn.bc.ca> 1235 12 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20745 20746 Changing Unix C-kermit> prompt Peter Burkholder Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:05:42 -0800 <388DD7E6.ED7EA6A6@seanet.com> 1694 23 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20746 20747 Re: Changing Unix C-kermit> prompt fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 25 Jan 2000 17:55:53 GMT <86ko39$enr$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <388DD7E6.ED7EA6A6@seanet.com> 2715 56 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20747 20748 Re: Changing Unix C-kermit> prompt Peter Burkholder Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:06:54 -0800 <388E025E.60D8E098@seanet.com> <388DD7E6.ED7EA6A6@seanet.com> <86ko39$enr$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 3209 71 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20748 20749 Case Study #16: Bootstrapping fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 25 Jan 2000 21:51:11 GMT <86l5sf$rr3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 6458 123 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20749 20750 MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities not-2-disclose@the.net Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:50:41 GMT <012500204110not-2-disclose@the.net> 8422 130 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20750 20751 Re: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement Mark Sapiro 26 Jan 2000 02:18:18 GMT <86llha$40u$1@news.value.net> <860ar1$rlj$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> 1913 26 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20751 20752 Re: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 26 Jan 2000 14:47:39 GMT <86n1eb$c24$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <860ar1$rlj$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <86llha$40u$1@news.value.net> 4095 65 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20752 20753 C-Kermit for OpenBSD mikef@pacifier.com (Mike Freeman) 26 Jan 2000 10:26:46 PST <388f3c66.0@news.pacifier.com> 1375 25 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20753 20754 Re: C-Kermit for OpenBSD fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) 26 Jan 2000 19:21:19 GMT <86nhff$q9o$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <388f3c66.0@news.pacifier.com> 2064 35 Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20754 ************************************************************************ Did you notice how little room there is in there for an eventual missing series of messages (*YOUR* posts)?... From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 26 23:28:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03725 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:28:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA24265 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:16:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: austin wood Subject: MSKERMIT and Windows 98 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:40:02 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <20000127.3400280@meter.internic2.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Is it possible to get mskermit to work in windows 98? I just want a=20= telnet program that I can use in a DOS window. Is it possible to use=20= the ndis3pkt? I could not use this as the link for it was dead. =20 Anyway, even if I can find, how exactly am I supposed to use it? From=20= the breif description on the mskermit homepage, it sounds like it is=20= designed for Windows 3.11. =20 Thanks a bunch! Austin Wood From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 26 23:58:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06655 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA24837 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:30:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 04:25:01 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hello Michel - I've been watching `the team' as they re-post old files trying desperately to push all their ill-chosen comments into archival storage on `dejanews'. It's an old trick that is used where only recent msgs are maintained. Stuff random msgs on top and the ones you want to be rid of fall off the bottom. If you repost every msg that we have put here that they are trying to bury they will redouble their text file output (posting old files can be automated and doesn't require any real thinking) until this newsgroup would look like CNN headquarters. If I was doing this from work as they are and being paid while this nonsense was going on it would be fun to see who would cave in first. I suspect that someone at Columbia monitors use of the system and would begin asking questions eventually. I don't think Joe Doupnik realizes that the killing of MSKermit is necessary to sell copies of K95. It seems `the team' has somehow managed to get permission from Columbia (who has made a mistake IMO) to sell copies of K95. MSKermit _also_ operates efficiently in the Windows environment and is free while K95 is not. Seems fairly obvious that you can't give free working copies while trying to sell another? I originally thought he was in on this with `the team' but now I'm not so sure. Joe seems quite fond of his MSK and I can't imagine under what circumstances he would allow it to wither and die. When Joe is out of the picture MSKermit will probably be deleted from the Columbia servers and since Columbia has arranged to own it they can demand it's removal from the others. In the end K95 will fail and damage the reputation of kermit in the process. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Jan 26 23:58:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA06657 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA24827 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:30:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 04:24:58 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hello Joe - I'm baayyccckkk! On 1900-01-25 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: JD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc JD>In article <012500204110not-2-disclose@the.net>, not-2-disclose@the. JD>>net writes: Hi Joe, JD>> About "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities" of January 1, 5, 7 and 18 JD>>MS> I introduce myself, i'm a DOS_InterNet user and spent about the last JD>>MS> two years lurking/participating to the same-name echo of the JD>>MS> `FidoNet' amateur messaging network. Since the last four years or so JD>>MS> i looked for DOS INet FreeWare/ShareWare programs in hope that i'd JD>>MS> get my hands on some piece of software which can be run even on a JD>>MS> minimum setup, meaning: - 8088 4,77 Mhz ~CPU~ - 640 Kb ~RAM~... .. JD>>MS> TO UPGRADE THE HARDWARE OR TO SWITCH TO PROTOCOLS LIKE ~FTP~/~HTTP~ JD>>MS> *IS NOT* AN OPTION. JD>>JRD> 486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free for the asking... You see Michel said this was not an option and was ignored. The folklore of free `486s is probably true if you work in academia where they get new equipment for free or in the government where they place no value on what they no longer require. For the rest of us even scrap metal has a price tag. JD>> I finally read your messages (not just short spasmodic quoted fragments) JD>> which you intended as a reply to my previous posts. Your choice of `spasmodic' lends that feeling of "just wanting to help" to your reply. JD>>MS> Most unfortunately, nothing you can write makes it to my news server; JD>>MS> i called my ~ISP~ and one of their clerck explained me that YOU JD>>MS> PROBABLY ARE USING ONE OF YOUR APPLICATION'S OPTION TO LIMIT THE JD>>MS> PROPAGATION of your messages. If it's true that you have too little JD>>MS> time at hand then you will want to spend a JD> ---------- JD> I will make this brief. Stop accusing people. Then please understand just JD> a bit more how News is propagated as storing and forwarding, merging and JD> splitting of streams of messages, some of which relays drop or repeat. JD> Hours or days may pass, relay links may be highly unreliable, etc. It is JD> not my end of things. What you say is true but there are ways to toss a monkey wrench into things which is why you locked out port #25. That particular port was probably being used to feed back some of the attitude that was received here originally. You locked it out in self-defense. 8) JD> Zmodem isn't in the works for MS-DOS Kermit. I've said that several times JD> now. Refusing to allow the MSKermit terminal app to use external protocols (via the `int 14h' hook) is the irrational behaviour of a zealot and unworthy of an educated individual. All terminal apps allow this, MSK is the exception. JD> Nor will port 25 to be opened, for what I consider good and sufficient JD> reasons both technical and ethical. Folks may honestly disagree, but the JD> decision stands. Personally, I don't care about port #25 but I can see why `the team' would fear it's use. 8) JD> To decode your script problems I suggest first reducing the number --8<--cut JD> I will not go on about this, but the speed problems you are concerned JD> about are most likely due to the simplistic implementation of the Kermit JD> protocol in the BBS systems you contact. Had they done a better JD> implementation things could go faster. It's not the method of putting JD> bits on the wire, it is the nature of how much is sent when at the JD> protocol level. Michel and I have discussed this many times and we both really _do_ understand what you are referring to here. What we have said was that when the kermit implemented on the BBS is fouled beyond a reasonable point then being able to shift to an external protocol for _that_ BBS would be a huge plus. JD> That ought to help reduce the number of comms techniques to worry about JD> (and you have a bunch in hand). At some point your 8088 machine runs out JD> of cpu cycles and the floppy drive remains slow. Those too will place an JD> upper limit on speed. Neither Michel nor I have said that MSKermit is slow on the 8088 or any machine that we know of. In fact, we have both said the opposite. MSKermit maintains consistently high transfer rates on those systems with a proper kermit implementation. A few FTP transfers will match MSK but generally never exceed MSK transfer rates. The point being that the IP stack seems to function properly when others do not. If external protocols could access this it would be a fall back for those BBS with poor or no kermit transfer. JD> Lastly, we have pointed you to the source code more than once. I was directed to something like 4 or 5 different places and the code was not there. JD> I did so on my machines: try netlab2.usu.edu, directory kermit. Try JD> netlab1.usu. edu, directory pub/mirror/kermit. The first time I went to these the code was not there and access to the `mirror' directory was denied. Since that time it _was_ there (the last time I looked) and I did download v315. Newer beta versions of v316 are also there in binaries. For some reason the `wermit' server is not being kept up to date? Is any of v316 beta??? source code ever going to be made available, it's been beta for years now. JD> Try a web browser or anonymous ftp. I can't help more than that and I do JD> hope you are successful this time. "I can't help more than that" is not quite accurate. No one has said that adding access to external protocols will damage MSKermit or that it can't be done. The reasons given for _not_ doing this are personal preference that demands that MSK remain as it is, a one protocol terminal app with no option but to disconnect if the other end cannot handle kermit. With your years of working with the code it shouldn't take very long for you to determine if adding a `hook' for exernal protocols is feasible without major surgery. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 00:58:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11028 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA28606 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:37:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: MSKERMIT and Windows 98 Message-ID: <4JMTbzrcXjJ7@cc.usu.edu> Date: 26 Jan 00 22:22:39 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <20000127.3400280@meter.internic2.net>, austin wood writes: > Is it possible to get mskermit to work in windows 98? I just want a=20= > > telnet program that I can use in a DOS window. Is it possible to use=20= > > the ndis3pkt? I could not use this as the link for it was dead. =20 > Anyway, even if I can find, how exactly am I supposed to use it? From=20= > > the breif description on the mskermit homepage, it sounds like it is=20= > > designed for Windows 3.11. =20 > > Thanks a bunch! > Austin Wood ------------- Ndis3pkt is maintained by Dan Lanciani at Harvard Univ. A copy of one version is in directory drivers on netlab2.usu.edu (pub/mirror/drivers on netlab1.usu.edu). Beware that each TCP/IP stack with ndis3pkt requires a separate IP address. And beware that NDIS has changed to versions greater than that for which Dan designed his utility; I can't say whether or not it still works with Win98. The project alternative is Kermit-95, designed for Windows only and using Windows' internal TCP/IP stack. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 09:58:10 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04427 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:58:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA22620 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:40:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: David Stow Subject: NET.CFG with SMCARCWS and MSKermit? Date: 27 Jan 2000 14:31:12 GMT Organization: Vancouver CommunityNet Message-ID: <86pkrg$k0$1@sylvester.vcn.bc.ca> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu When I tried to unload LSL.COM after unloading the SMCARCWS driver that I tried to use with MSKermit 3.15, I got a message saying that protocol d* had not been released by the application. (The "*" was actually an ASCII decimal 15 character). I thought this might mean that the protocol lines in my NET.CFG file were incorrect. Frame NOVELL_RX-NET Protocol IP D4 NOVELL_RX-NET Do these lines require an ASCII 09 between every value, or just at the start of the line? Does the ASCII 15 in the error message suggest any problem other than the NET.CFG file? SMCARCWS unloaded without any trouble. Thanks, David Stow From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 10:28:10 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09816 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:28:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA23576 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:02:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: ODI configuration for MS-Kermit? Message-ID: Date: 27 Jan 00 07:52:29 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <610878@news1.IPSWITCHS.CMM>, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) writes: > In article , jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) writes: > > | And keep in mind that only one protocol stack of a given kind > | can run over a single lan adapter (save only one example of a really > | clever IP snoop and rewrite on the fly shim). Dan Lanciani has a protected > | mode NDIS shim for parallel TCP/IP stacks, but each stack needs its own > | IP address. > > Actually, my ndis3pkt shim got a bit more clever a while back and versions since > 2.0 can multiplex a number of packet driver tcp/ip stacks plus Microsoft's stack > all on one IP address. > > Dan Lanciani > ddl@danlan.*com ----------- That's good news Dan, appreciated. Might there be an address where folks can find the newer edition, and will it work with the current Win98 and (to ask the obvious) Win2K? Thanks, Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 11:28:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22588 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:28:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA26901 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:05:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: dubal@my-deja.com Subject: How to set terminal speed in msdos kermit 316 on tcp/ip connection? Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:48:10 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <86ppbo$bnk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi! I am sorry to bother you nice people but I coundn't find the answer to the above in online documentation. I have ordered (really) the msdos kermit book from amazon, it's on its way. When I connect from msdos kermit client to linux over tcp/ip, I always get the connection speed of 9600 (stty -a). I would like to increase it to 38400 for fater screen displays. The set speed command is ignored in tcp/ip connect mode. Please suggest a solution. Thanks in advance. Regards. J Dubal. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 11:28:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22590 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:28:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA27467 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:15:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: How to set terminal speed in msdos kermit 316 on tcp/ip connection? Date: 27 Jan 2000 16:15:32 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86pqv4$qq9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86ppbo$bnk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : I am sorry to bother you nice people but I coundn't find the answer to : the above in online documentation. I have ordered (really) the msdos : kermit book from amazon, it's on its way. : When I connect from msdos kermit client to linux over tcp/ip, I always : get the connection speed of 9600 (stty -a). : I would like to increase it to 38400 for fater screen displays. : The set speed command is ignored in tcp/ip connect mode. : Right. There is no way to change the speed of a TCP/IP connection. It goes as fast as it can. That's how TCP/IP works. The computer on the far end, however, doesn't gave a good way to differentiate between jobs that come in by straight dialup or serial port (how Unix was originally designed) and those that come in by network. It pretends you came in by serial port and shows a dummy speed if you ask it (with stty -a or whatever). But that speed is meaningless. If your screen displays are slow, it's for some other reason. If you want to pursue it further, we'll need a more detailed description of your PC, operating system, networking setup, and connection. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 13:58:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28282 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:58:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05446 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:44:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: How to set terminal speed in msdos kermit 316 on tcp/ip connection? Date: 27 Jan 2000 18:44:02 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86q3li$5a3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86q226$j4f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : Thank you very much for such prompt response! : : The PC is 486sx running msdos 5.0 with 8mb ram and ne2000 isa 10mb lan : card with bnc connecter. No other machine on the lan except the linux : host (test setup). : : I forgot to mention: If I use a commercial tcp and terminal emulator : (tuntcp/tunemul from esker) on the same PC, I get faster screen : displays and stty -a shows 38400. See if you can help. : I would be very surprised if the host's idea of the console serial port speed had anything to do with the difference. However, some applications might obtain the speed from OS and adjust their behavior accordingly (or termcap/terminfo/curses might do it for them). EMACS is one example; if it thinks you are coming in on a slow serial port, it behaves differently. Nevertheless, none of this would affect the speed at which characters are displayed. That's a function of the emulator itself, the TCP/IP stack (which in this case is built in to the emulator), the network interface and driver, and whatever "shims" might be installed between the board driver and the TCP/IP stack and/or application. So again, you'll need to be specific about how you have set up MS-DOS Kermit to use the network. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 13:58:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28284 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:58:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA05128 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:36:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: dubal@my-deja.com Subject: Re: How to set terminal speed in msdos kermit 316 on tcp/ip connection? Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:16:45 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <86q226$j4f$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Thank you very much for such prompt response! The PC is 486sx running msdos 5.0 with 8mb ram and ne2000 isa 10mb lan card with bnc connecter. No other machine on the lan except the linux host (test setup). I forgot to mention: If I use a commercial tcp and terminal emulator (tuntcp/tunemul from esker) on the same PC, I get faster screen displays and stty -a shows 38400. See if you can help. Thnaks. In article <86pqv4$qq9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: > In article <86ppbo$bnk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: > : I am sorry to bother you nice people but I coundn't find the answer to > : the above in online documentation. I have ordered (really) the msdos > : kermit book from amazon, it's on its way. > : When I connect from msdos kermit client to linux over tcp/ip, I always > : get the connection speed of 9600 (stty -a). > : I would like to increase it to 38400 for fater screen displays. > : The set speed command is ignored in tcp/ip connect mode. > : > Right. There is no way to change the speed of a TCP/IP connection. > It goes as fast as it can. That's how TCP/IP works. > > The computer on the far end, however, doesn't gave a good way to > differentiate between jobs that come in by straight dialup or serial port > (how Unix was originally designed) and those that come in by network. > It pretends you came in by serial port and shows a dummy speed if you > ask it (with stty -a or whatever). But that speed is meaningless. > > If your screen displays are slow, it's for some other reason. If you > want to pursue it further, we'll need a more detailed description of your > PC, operating system, networking setup, and connection. > > - Frank > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 14:58:12 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10403 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:58:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA08285 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:38:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: How to set terminal speed in msdos kermit 316 on tcp/ip connection? Date: 27 Jan 2000 19:38:10 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86q6r2$82q$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86q226$j4f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : Thank you very much for such prompt response! : : The PC is 486sx running msdos 5.0 with 8mb ram and ne2000 isa 10mb lan : card with bnc connecter. No other machine on the lan except the linux : host (test setup). : I forgot to mention: If I use a commercial tcp and terminal emulator : (tuntcp/tunemul from esker) on the same PC, I get faster screen : displays and stty -a shows 38400. See if you can help. : Thnaks. Your commercial terminal emulator most likely implements Telnet Terminal Speed negotiations (RFC 1079). This telnet negotiation is meant for use when a terminal server which is accepting an dialup connection is used to Telnet to a host. This allows the terminal server to transmit to the host the send and receive rates of the modem. When you read this RFC you can clearly see from which era it came from. All of the discussion is about 100, 300, and 1200 cps connections. None of the Kermit telnet clients implement this negotiation. To say that the terminal transmits at 38400 is very arbitrary. Why not say 1000000 since that is the number of bytes that can be theoretically sent on a 10 Mbit/sec connection? The reason is that the terminal speed tables on all Unix hosts are limited and only go as high as a specified platform specific value. The behavior is undefined when the value sent by the client does not match or greatly exceeds the values supported by the server. Many of the older Unix systems have a max terminal speed of 9600. Others are at 38400. More recent ones go as high as 456000. The problem is the case of the undefined systems. Since the telnet client is going to be lying anyway, what terminal speed should be set? If you set one too high you won't get a valid value and if you set it too low the behavior will be undesireable. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 16:58:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA05456 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:58:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA15309 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:39:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <012700162238not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:39:43 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi Joe, Still about "MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of January 26!... you can refer to past postings of January 1 (19h00), 4 (10h39), 5 (8h53), 7 (10h54), 13 (11h46), 17 (15h32), 17 (18h08), 17 (20h05), 18 (12h06) and 18 (21h34), including your latest message from January 25: JRD> Stop accusing people. Then please understand... Oh my, i guess i should feel so bad... for not having any remorse after i sent you this post of mine, yersterday! So, do you find any occurance of the "jrd@" string at all, in my ~ISP~'s listing, or what?!... 8^o I seen a number of header references related to kermit.misc@columbia.edu, i suppose that's the start of an explanation as to why other people were reading you, not me... How's that for a guy who needs to understand the inner workings? Right now, i *STILL* have to go to Columbia's site for grabing any post written by you! %-7 Why's that so??? :^o JRD> Zmodem isn't in the works for MS-DOS Kermit. I've said that JRD> several times now. Nor will port 25 to be opened... Have i not JRD> shown that i understood the first time when i expressed my regret? JRD> Why do you insist in repeating yourself like this?! What's wrong with you people?!? Just look at how you put your replies: "Zmodem isn't in the works..." is no indication whatsoever that it WON'T BE in the future! Hence, don't be surprized if a DOS BBS user comes at you a few times, wishing to discuss the alternatives: those still seem to be possible options so far, ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN WRITING! Surely, i DID gather from the context that `ZMoDem' just happens to be an absolute "No-Go" for the `MS-Kermit' team, but you only write that `ZmoDem' isn't in your plans for the DOS version (Jan. 1 & 17)!... At the same time, i have this reply: "i hope that in this particular thread the MSK source code is now in hand and being scrutinized for local embellishment."! Gosh! In this post to which you just replied, did i fail to make myself clear by typing "The only thing that remains to be seen is as to wether or not we'll ever find the latest `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8' source-code anywhere on INet..."! :^o And this IS NOT the first time i ask!!! :-7 Moreover, on Jan. 17, you wrote that "Those with an interest in systems work may wish to dig/wade in for personal curiosity." but the `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8' source-code is still to be found, actually! Are the users supposed to scrutinize and embellish the old 3.15 version instead?! %-o So, how dare you complain because i "insist in repeating" myself when it is quite evident that you and the others twisted a few thing yourselves, hey?! Haven't i *BODLY* established that i like "legacy" machines, from the very start? Nonetheless, it didn't prevent you from posting me this sort of response: "486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free for the asking from just about everywhere, memory included." (Jan. 1)!!! :( When i explain why `Kermit' alone doesn't allow to transfer files from a variety of BBSes, you just applaused at this blatant argument that your `MS-Kermit' protocol is "as fast and a lot more robust and clever than x/y/zmodem protocols." (still, Jan. 1)! Oh? But what good does it do?! When i wrote about my thought of using a ~TelNet~ "shim" which `Kermit' and an external `ZMoDem' protocol would share, you served me "UPGRADE!", *AGAIN*: "The intrinsic speed of MSK is basically set by the cpu in the machine. We've tested it to half a MB/sec over regular Ethernet as full Kermit protocol file transfers with a 100MHz Pentium processor. The cpu part is a problem at 4.77MHz... So again, grab a surplus motherboard."! How could you miss the *clear* mentions i made, from the very begining: "I introduce myself, i'm a DOS_InterNet user and spent about the last two years lurking/participating to the same-name echo of the `FidoNet' amateur messaging network. Since the last four years or so i looked for DOS INet FreeWare/ShareWare programs... TO UPGRADE THE HARDWARE or to switch to protocols like ~FTP~/~HTTP~ *IS NOT* an option."! Ho! And a few line below, wasn't it apparent that i've explored this topic before, enumerating the ~TelNet~ "shims" i've tried so far?: "`INT14', `Net14', `TCPPort', `TelAPI', `TNGlass' (`RLFossil' too..."!!! 8-o I guess not, since you simply made a comment about some 100 MHz Pentium equiped PC!!! Put frankly, i didn't seem to be understood so well, the first time, and that's the reason why i seem to repeat myself again and again and again! I sure wrote about having the equivalent D/L cps rate of a 9k6/19K2 bps connection, i did not write that i couldn't have it done at all!... As a matter of fact, i posted a reply to Frank where i explained him that i already have had ".ZIP-file DownLoads of about 431 cps (D/L to a remote ~RAMDisk~ via `InterLink'", using `MS-Kermit' on an old 8088 4,77 Mhz PC which had only 512 Kb ~RAM~ memory and one 3.5"/720 Kb diskette drive... The ~UART~ wasn't even buffered (a 8250-like hardware emulation) and the MoDem was reporting a computer-MoDem "CONNECT" rate of 9K6 bps - a kind of performance which i attributed to the DIRECT packet-driver interface from which `MS-Kermit' could gather its data. Later, i added to this a mention about having "almost 4K cps with my 386-16 Mhz PC in a ~TelNet~ session" (and i even wrote Frank that i discovered `Kermit', for the 1st time, when i bought my Hewlett Packard `HP-48' calculator, around 1991). Again, it did not prevent you from serving the "64KB buys little room to do "big" things." argument to my friend Charles, on January 5! At best, he'd get this observation that "The MSK code is designed to work solidly with Packet Drivers and Novell's ODI drivers." and "It's not a series of approximations. It is robust by design.". OKay, it's doing fine. Now, why the fuss: "...MSK isn't intended to be "someone else's TCP/IP stack because we can't do it ourselves and thus want it done for free by some poor sod."!... Ho! But this business about a ~FOSSIL~ extension hardly relates to a ~TCP~/~IP~ stack for such "poor sod", might i add!... 8-o Hummm... That one wasn't to be unnoticed neither: "I am open to discussions on providing an efficient transport layer blob, as I crudely describe this approach, but only on a prepaid contract basis. The same applies to existing BBS software: the Kermit protocol implementation could be made better. If serious then please contact me directly with formal specifics; it won't be cheap." (January 18)... WOW! This little topic of ours - of me and Charles - was merely related to "embellishment" done by providing a way to add some existing *PUBLIC DOMAIN* `ZMoDem' EXTERNAL protocol! Nothing in the scope you described! (Yes, i took note of your objection of January 18 where you expre$$ your concern$ about "licensing fees to Omen Tech Inc")... Anyway. Euh... I take that you won't remember this "embellishment" word of yours, hey?... Ho! And you need to write that you're no "reactionary grouch"... Fine! :( Here is another hilarious one: "...there are alternatives which do or can be made to work satisfactorily. Further, there are alternatives of basic approach which obviate dealing with BBS software and 8088 class machines; millions of people use them daily. With that I think the matter has been explored here as far as it needs to be."! 8-o Ho! la! La! That's all you could come up with? Ever heard of `GLink r6.1.5'? :^o Just like Charles wrote; yes, i heard this theory that anything with a big enough engine will fly! Euh... And any "poor sod" can buy its way into the InterNet as well... 8-o Dear professor. If you need to say "no", why just don't you put it in two or three short sentences like: "No, the `MS-Kermit' Beta team ISN'T and WILL NOT add the `ZMoDem' feature - BUY the `Window$ 95' version!", not just "...MSK does not support *modem file transfers." like you wrote to Jonathan Graham Harston on August 23, 1999 (it implies "as of now"). A twisted reality, that's what you live in. Did any of us question your choice of `MASM v6.11' for an assembler? No. Not me, that's for sure! I seen, from previous post, that you had users who wrote about "this is how I poll my franchises every night", "here is how I control my milling machines", "here is how I submit pharmaceutical insurance claims to the formulary", "here is how I check all my network boxes and send pages when something's amiss" (Frank, Oct. 27, 1999)... Why do you expect one to be unable to cope with his ~SMTP~ server and manage the mail when we read that a guy, out there, used `Kermit' to control a milling machine?! 8-o [...] JRD> To decode your script problems I suggest first reducing the number JRD> of items in it, and try each piece one at a time... Oh... Have i neglected to write you that i started learning `Kermit's scripting/macro language only at the end of the late fall? 8-o And now i suppose i'm expected to know it all?!? %-7 Take a look at `{Commo}', you might find out that everything hasn't been said yet... [...] MS> My writing about `MS-Kermit' being more performant at DownLoads than MS> any DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~-capable terminal emulator also MS> implied that... ...little else (but `Conex') seemed to have an MS> INTEGRATED packet-driver interface & ~TelNet~ protocol. Actualy, my MS> opinion was that `MS-Kermit' has an advantage... ...it circumvents MS> the need for a DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~... Such topic is MS> quite remote from any of your comments on code swiftness; i merely MS> refered to a speed limitation which is a consequence of the ~BIOS MS> INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~ interfaces. ...just keep in mind that this MS> sort of terminal emulator DOES allow for `ZMoDem'/`Kermit' file MS> transfers in ~TelNet~ sessions... ...many popular programs offer MS> that interface: amongst those, we find `Anzio Net v11.4w', MS> `Communiqu‚ v2.10', `Deputy v3.09' and `Odyssey v2.00'. An other MS> terminal emulator which includes the very same feature but no MS> `ZMoDem' protocol is `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta', of course... As far as MS> i'm concerned, i'm inclined to believe that almost anything is MS> possible until there's proof of the contrary... JRD> ...but the speed problems you are concerned about are most likely JRD> due to the simplistic implementation of the Kermit protocol in the JRD> BBS systems you contact. Oh boy! You're not paying too much attention are you?!... 8-o Is this about `Kermit' transfers alone or didn't i include the `ZMoDem' protocol in the picture?... I tried to explain that the DOS ~BIOS INT-14~ and/or ~FOSSIL~ trail leads to using programs in which the `ZMoDem' protocol IS NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE of a DIRECT packet-driver interface (nor a ~TelNet~ protocol!), which is possible in `MS-Kermit'. THAT speed limitation is not a consequence of the remote BBS system at all, it's simply a result of the situation i've exposed above!!! Simply put, i don't care so much about the identity of the protocol but i do care about what's available on the BBS, for starters; hence, my need to IMPROVE my use of `ZMoDem', something my friend Charles already done to some extent. Charles and myself we believe that an internal `ZMoDem' protocol inside `MS-Kermit' would make it a better terminal emulator for calling BBSes; you don't and that's all there is to it, i'm afraid! :( JRD> At some point your 8088 machine runs out of cpu cycles and the JRD> floppy drive remains slow. A floppy? Find me a single reference about DownLoading to a "floppy" in any of my posts!!! I'll deal with my floppy, thanks for your concern... [...] JRD> Lastly, we have pointed you to the source code more than once. JRD> I did so on my machines: try netlab2.usu.edu, directory kermit. JRD> Try netlab1.usu.edu, directory pub/mirror/kermit. I started asking about the source-code as soon as January 4, i continued trying more than once... I'm well equiped enough for browsing the ~WEB~ and accessing an ~FTP~ site and i keep telling you that i can't seem to find the latest `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' source-code - you keep pretending that everything is there! Well, i peeked at the files i could get and i still see no mention of the source-code for the 3.16 version whatsoever: ************************************************************************ /KERMIT Sep 17 1997 zip MSK315.ZIP 479 Kb Oct 29 1999 text/plain MSK316.CHG 6 Kb May 6 1999 msdos-program MSK316B7.EXE 250 Kb Oct 14 1999 msdos-program MSK316B8.EXE 250 Kb Mar 2 1991 text/plain MSVIBM.TEK 35 Kb Mar 9 1998 text/plain MSVIBM.VT 72 Kb Jan 18 14:46 Directory SOURCE /KERMIT/SOURCE Aug 3 1997 text/plain MSGIBM.ASM 237 Kb Jul 15 1996 text/plain MSK315.LNK 233 bytes Jul 5 1996 text/plain MSK315.MAK 3 Kb Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc MSNARP.C 14 Kb Sep 5 1997 text/x-csrc MSNBTP.C 17 Kb Sep 5 1997 text/x-csrc MSNDNS.C 16 Kb Sep 2 1997 text/x-csrc MSNICM.C 8 Kb Jan 3 1997 text/x-csrc MSNLIB.C 7 Kb Jan 3 1997 text/x-chdr MSNLIB.H 2 Kb May 19 1997 text/plain MSNPDI.ASM 64 Kb Apr 12 1997 text/x-csrc MSNPKT.C 6 Kb Apr 12 1997 text/x-csrc MSNSED.C 4 Kb Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc MSNTCP.C 71 Kb Jan 3 1997 text/x-chdr MSNTCP.H 11 Kb Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc MSNTND.C 35 Kb Apr 6 1997 text/plain MSNTNI.ASM 25 Kb Jan 3 1997 text/plain MSNUT1.ASM 21 Kb Aug 30 1997 text/plain MSSCMD.ASM 146 Kb Sep 8 1997 text/plain MSSCOM.ASM 61 Kb Sep 15 1997 text/x-chdr MSSDEF.H 21 Kb Aug 12 1997 text/plain MSSFIL.ASM 114 Kb Sep 15 1997 text/plain MSSKER.ASM 106 Kb Sep 11 1997 text/plain MSSRCV.ASM 47 Kb Sep 10 1997 text/plain MSSSCP.ASM 89 Kb Sep 6 1997 text/plain MSSSEN.ASM 80 Kb Sep 8 1997 text/plain MSSSER.ASM 85 Kb Sep 5 1997 text/plain MSSSET.ASM 138 Kb Sep 6 1997 text/plain MSSSHO.ASM 98 Kb Aug 30 1997 text/plain MSSTER.ASM 76 Kb May 7 1997 text/plain MSUIBM.ASM 79 Kb Sep 15 1997 text/plain MSXIBM.ASM 253 Kb Sep 15 1997 text/plain MSYIBM.ASM 255 Kb Aug 15 1997 text/plain MSZIBM.ASM 366 Kb Dec 24 1999 Directory TEST /KERMIT/SOURCE/TEST (empty) /pub/mirror/kermit Sep 17 1997 zip msk315.zip 479 Kb Oct 29 21:18 text/plain msk316.chg 6 Kb May 6 1999 msdos-program msk316b7.exe 250 Kb Oct 14 18:01 msdos-program msk316b8.exe 250 Kb Mar 2 1991 text/plain msvibm.tek 35 Kb Mar 9 1998 text/plain msvibm.vt 72 Kb Jan 18 21:46 Directory source /pub/mirror/kermit/source Aug 3 1997 text/plain msgibm.asm 237 Kb Jul 16 1996 text/plain msk315.lnk 233 bytes Jul 5 1996 text/plain msk315.mak 3 Kb Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc msnarp.c 14 Kb Sep 6 1997 text/x-csrc msnbtp.c 17 Kb Sep 6 1997 text/x-csrc msndns.c 16 Kb Sep 2 1997 text/x-csrc msnicm.c 8 Kb Jan 3 1997 text/x-csrc msnlib.c 7 Kb Jan 3 1997 text/x-chdr msnlib.h 2 Kb May 19 1997 text/plain msnpdi.asm 64 Kb Apr 12 1997 text/x-csrc msnpkt.c 6 Kb Apr 12 1997 text/x-csrc msnsed.c 4 Kb Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc msntcp.c 71 Kb Jan 3 1997 text/x-chdr msntcp.h 11 Kb Sep 4 1997 text/x-csrc msntnd.c 35 Kb Apr 7 1997 text/plain msntni.asm 25 Kb Jan 3 1997 text/plain msnut1.asm 21 Kb Aug 30 1997 text/plain msscmd.asm 146 Kb Sep 9 1997 text/plain msscom.asm 61 Kb Sep 16 1997 text/x-chdr mssdef.h 21 Kb Aug 12 1997 text/plain mssfil.asm 114 Kb Sep 16 1997 text/plain mssker.asm 106 Kb Sep 11 1997 text/plain mssrcv.asm 47 Kb Sep 10 1997 text/plain mssscp.asm 89 Kb Sep 6 1997 text/plain msssen.asm 80 Kb Sep 9 1997 text/plain mssser.asm 85 Kb Sep 6 1997 text/plain mssset.asm 138 Kb Sep 6 1997 text/plain msssho.asm 98 Kb Aug 30 1997 text/plain msster.asm 76 Kb May 7 1997 text/plain msuibm.asm 79 Kb Sep 15 1997 text/plain msxibm.asm 253 Kb Sep 15 1997 text/plain msyibm.asm 255 Kb Aug 15 1997 text/plain mszibm.asm 366 Kb Dec 24 13:10 Directory test /pub/mirror/kermit/source/test (empty) ************************************************************************ If you pay attention to the dates, the only elements which are from 1999 are the latest executables and a .CHG text-file, not the source-code!... As for the `test' directory which was created recently, it's dead empty. JRD> ...I do hope you are successful this time. In case i didn't make it thru: no, i wasn't successful this time. So, how many times should i need to come back at you with my long messages, trying to make the point when no effort is good enough, whatsoever? 8-o [...] Thanks for nothing. Michel Samson From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 18:58:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28374 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:58:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22624 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:52:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Message-ID: <3890D6EC.ADD54D6@eracc.bizland.com> From: ERA Organization: ERA Computer Consulting Subject: Re: Case Study #13: PPP Dialing Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:39:45 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Jeffrey Altman wrote: > > In article <388C97FD.CCDA1ADD@eracc.bizland.com>, > ERA wrote: > > : Since you mention my favorite OS ... Jeffrey, will that be > : available in the OS/2 version? ... > > Kermit 95 for OS/2 has supported PPP dialing since 1994. This is > documented in the "For OS/2 Users" section of the online Kermit 95 > manual. The subtopic is "Using Kermit/2 to Dial SLIP and PPP > Connections." > >Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 Well duh! I should have checked there before asking. That is most excellent. Methinks I'm going to muck around with a bit of kermit scripting this weekend to try that out. Thanks! BTW, please, for my sensitive eyes, let's agree to call it Kermit/2 when discussing the OS/2 version. Saying Kermit 95 for OS/2 is *almost* as bad as saying OS/2 for Windows. ;-) -- Gene Alexander -- +==========================-=>Team OS/2<=-==========================+ # Owner and C.E.O. - ERA Computer Consulting - Jackson, TN USA # #Providing IBM OS/2 and SCO OpenServer Business Computing Solutions# # visit our www pages at http://eracc.bizland.com/ # +===================================================================+ The Operating System/2 Version is 4.00 Revision 9.029 There are 46 Processes with 164 Threads. This machine's uptime is 0d 2h 57m 43s 967ms. From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 18:58:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28376 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:58:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22815 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:54:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Nick Boyce Subject: No Screen Output During Scripted Transfers ? Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:39:12 GMT Organization: Sirius Intelligent Doors Message-ID: <38909fa6.6586606@news.demon.co.uk> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I have an annoying but non-critical problem with scripted Kermit file transfers not displaying anything (at all) to the screen. The problem is two-fold : a) the user has no idea what is going on while the transfers are running - for all they know the software could have crashed. b) when I'm testing the scripts while logged in over a remote dialup link, the lack of screen output causes the dialin server to assume my session is idle (the file transfers are long) and it times me out ! I'm using C-Kermit 6.0.1 on HPUX 10.20 (supplied as standard with HPUX) to initiate transfers to & from a remote system (another HPUX as it happens). The purpose of writing the script is so that completely non-computer-literate users can run file transfers by selecting an option on a menu. I chose to use "SET TRANSFER DISPLAY CRT" to get an updating display output to the screen as each file is transferred, but although this display appears if the individual commands are input at a Kermit command prompt, if I script the commands then *nothing* appears on screen during "SEND"/"RECEIVE" command execution. I wrote a file containing the required commands, and am feeding it into Kermit using "kermit < myscript.scr" at a Unix command prompt. I've tried "SET TRANSFER DISPLAY FULLSCREEN", and "SET QUIET OFF", but these don't help. I'm guessing that screen output is deliberately suppressed during script execution, on the assumption that there is nobody there to see the display. Is there some magic switch or option which switches screen output back on if wanted ? If anyone can help here I'll be very grateful. Cheers, Nick Boyce Bristol, UK -- I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 18:58:17 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA28379 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:58:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA22600 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:52:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #17: Fun with Dates and Times Date: 27 Jan 2000 23:52:05 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86qln5$m25$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu C-Kermit 7.0 (and Kermit 95 1.1.18 when it comes out) let you use dates and times as "native" data types in your commands and scripts. We spoke about this a little bit in the "How Do I Delete Files More Than a Week Old?" example but that just skimmed the surface. I won't bother listing the rules for writing dates and times; they are spelled out in Section 1.6 of ckermit2.txt. Assuming you know how to write dates and times, what can you do with them? You have already seen how they can be used as file selectors. For example, to send all files that were created in December 1999, you could: SEND /NOT-BEFORE:1999-12-01 /BEFORE:2000-01-01 *.* /NOT-BEFORE is almost the same as /AFTER, except /NOT-BEFORE includes the given date-time (in this case the implied time of 00:00:00 on December 1), whereas /AFTER excludes it. A fine point indeed! (Of course there is also a /NOT-AFTER switch, which has the same relationship to /BEFORE.) To illustrate dates with explicit times, here is a command to send log files created after noon on the 27th day of January of this year: SEND /AFTER:{2000-01-27 12:00:00} *.log A date-time is a single field (or "word") in Kermit syntax, so must be enclosed in braces if it contains any spaces, as shown above (of course other variations are possible). To experiment with date-time formats, use C-Kermit's new DATE command. If you type "date" by itself, it prints the current date and time. If you follow it by something, C-Kermit tries to interpret the "something" as a date and/or time and prints the result (or an error message). Perhaps the most interesting aspect of C-Kermit's new date-time support is the ability to do date and time arithmetic. This works in two ways. First, by using the built-in relative date syntax: YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, +3DAYS, -6WEEKS, +12YEARS, etc, for example: DELETE /BEFORE:-2WEEKS *.* All the built-in symbolic dates are relative to "today", the current date. You can also perform explicit calculations, such as obtaining a date that is a given number of days after a given date, or finding out the day of the week for a given date. All of C-Kermit's date calculations are based on the Modified Julian Date (MJD), which is the number of days since 17 November 1858. For dates prior to 17 Nov 1858, the MJD is negative. MJDs are scalar counting numbers (unlike the "yyyyddd" format, often but improperly called the Julian date), so you can do arithmetic on them. For example, if today's MJD is 51570, then 100 days from today, the MJD will be 51570 + 100 = 51670. MJDs have some other interesting properties too: . They can be compared arithmetically. This lets you (for example) select files that are older (or newer) than some other file, or use the MJD as a numeric sort key. . The modulus of the MJD and 7 tells the day of the week (4=Sunday, 5=Monday, 6=Tuesday, 0=Wednesday, ...) C-Kermit 7.0 includes functions to convert date-time strings to MJD and vice versa. For example, here's how to get the date 100 days from today: .\%m := \fmjd(\v(date)) ; Convert today's date to MJD echo \fmjd2date(\%m+100) ; Add 100 and convert back to a date. The result is "20000506", or 6 May 2000, which is: echo \fday(20000506) Sat ... a Saturday. Did you ever wonder what day of the week you were born? Ask Kermit (substituting your actual birthday): echo \fday(27 jan 1958) Mon The \fday() function returns the English 3-letter day of the week abbreviation; \fnday() returns a day-of-week number, 0-6; the argument is a date-time string. You can use \fmodulus(MJD,7) if you have an MJD. By the way, the ". = " notation is new to C-Kermit 7.0. The assignment operator can be "=", which does what DEFINE does; ":=" does what ASSIGN does, and "::=" evaluates the as an arithmetic expression and then ASSIGNs it to the (see Section 7.9.1 of the ckermit2.txt file for details). C-Kermit's new date conversion and arithmetic functions let us answer questions like "What is the first Friday after a given date?". Questions like this come up all the time in data processing. Let's say the variable \%d contains the "given date": .\%m ::= \fmjd(\%d)+1 ; Convert day after given date to MJD. .\%x := \fmod(\%m,7) ; Day of week of day after given date. .\%y := \fmod(9-\%x,7) ; Days until Friday (0-6) .\%e := \fmjd2date(\%m+\%y) ; Date of first Friday after given date. C-Kermit doesn't have a built-in function that returns the date of the first Friday after a given date, but (as explained in "Using C-Kermit", 2nd Ed, page 399), you can define your own: define FRIDAYAFTER { local \%m \%x \%y .\%m ::= \fmjd(\%*)+1 ; "\%*" allows for spaces in argument .\%x := \fmod(\%m,7) ; (see ckermit2.txt Section 7.5) .\%y := \fmod(9-\%x,7) return \fmjd2date(\%m+\%y) } You can invoke it like this: \fexec(fridayafter,27 jan 2000) And you can use it for file selection like this: delete /before:\fexec(fridayafter,27 jan 1999) C-Kermit also has another set of functions for dealing with the more common (but less useful) yyyyddd (year, day of year) format: \fdoy(date-time), fdoy2date(doy). You can read about them in Section 1.6 of ckermit2.txt. Arithmetic can also be done with times-of-day. Functions are available to give the current time in hh:mm:ss notation and as seconds since midnight. New functions \fntime(hh:mm:ss) converts the given time to seconds since midnight, and \fn2time(n) converts the given number of seconds since midnight to hh:mm:ss format. So given a particular time, you can convert it to seconds-since-midnight, do any desired arithmetic on it, and then convert the result back to hh:mm:ss format. To illustrate, let's see What the date and time will be a million seconds from now: .\%t := \v(ntime) ; Current time secs since midnight .\%d := \fmjd(\v(date)) ; MJD of today incr \%t 1000000 ; Add a million seconds to current time incr \%d (\%t/86400) ; Extract days and add to MJD .\%t := \fmod(\%t,86400) ; Remainder is time of day echo \fmjd2date(\%d) \fn2time(\%t) ; Print the result (86400 is the number of seconds in a day.) C-Kermit's date/time functions don't use any platform-specific APIs (except obviously to obtain the current date and time), so they should work uniformly everywhere. The range of date arithmetic depends on the integer size of your computer and the code generated by the C compiler. And in case you were wondering, the true Julian date is the number of days since Noon, 1 January 4713 BC (BCE). But this has become a rather large number (too large for 16- or even 18-bit computer words), so the MJD is used instead in most computer applications and is, in fact, the internal date representation in some well-known computer operating systems (but not Unix). - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 19:28:15 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03305 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:28:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA23964 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:17:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: No Screen Output During Scripted Transfers ? Date: 28 Jan 2000 00:16:59 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86qn5r$ncp$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <38909fa6.6586606@news.demon.co.uk>, Nick Boyce wrote: : I have an annoying but non-critical problem with scripted Kermit file : transfers not displaying anything (at all) to the screen. : ... : I ... am feeding it into Kermit using "kermit < myscript.scr" at a : Unix command prompt. : That's why you don't see the display. Kermit senses that its standard input is not a terminal, and therefore does not attempt to write anything to the terminal, since that could cause it to block. Just remove the "<" from your command line: kermit myscript.scr Make sure the script terminates with an EXIT command. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 21:28:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA25412 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA02370 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:01:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement Date: 28 Jan 2000 02:01:39 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86qta3$2a0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Joe Doupnik wrote: : A "friendly amendment." While the Kermit protocol, and TCP, do an : acceptable job of confirming stages of work are completed, those techniques : do not remove ambiguity. Frank correctly states "somewhat immune." Old : packets whose sequence numbers have wrapped to the proper current value, : badly garbled ones with apparently legit contents (CRC checks are hardly : perfect), and packets delivered by mistake to the wrong session, are three : serious concerns for protocol designers because they confuse the normal : stage by stage confirmations. TCP uses three way handshakes, extra steps : to extend sequence numbers in some circumstances, and pseudo headers, to : help reduce false indications. Kermit does a pretty good job too, but not : to the extent that TCP goes. : The two hill army problem remains when one gets serious about comms. : As stated, there is no certainty in the exchange, only approximation to it. : I meant to get back to this earlier, (so as not to leave an unsettling impression with readers who don't study these topics) but better late than never. I believe most of Joe's observations pertain more to TCP and IP than to Kermit: . Old packets whose sequence numbers have wrapped. This can happen in TCP/IP because it's a worldwide packet-switched network. A TCP packet (encapsulated within an IP packet) can be stuck in the network for minutes, hours, days, or weeks, and then show up after the sequence number space has recycled one or more times, and then it can cause trouble unless there is a higher (than TCP) level of checking. But Kermit connections are either point-to-point in fact, or in effect, so packets don't lurk in odd crannies of the world and reappear at a later time -- at least not late enough to cause confusion about packet numbers. Why? Because (in the non-streaming case) every Kermit packet must be acknowledged. The window can't be larger than half the sequence number space, and it can't advance until the oldest packet in the window is acknowledged. This technique, called "sliding windows with selective retransmission", is more conservative and robust than the technique TCP uses in preventing packet sequence number ambiguity. . Packets are delivered by mistake to the wrong session. Can't happen in Kermit because there is only one session. . Packets can be garbled to look like other packets. Yes, this can happen in any communictions protocol with some calculable probability. But let's look at the consequence in the context of atomic file movement. First, it is possible (but highly unlikely) that a data packet can be corrupted in such a way that its CRC will still be correct, thus allowing bad data into a file (but only if the packet sequence number, length, and other controls remain valid). Of course this can happen in any communications protocol; there is a whole literature on the subject. But what about the progress of the protocol itself? Each possible happenstance and its consequences can be examined in turn. For example, an ACK can turn into a NAK with the same sequence number. No harm is done. A NAK can turn into an ACK for the same packet. Again, no harm is done (because the seemingly ACK'd packet will missing at the receiver, and this will cause the transfer to fail eventually.) An ACK is turned into something besides an ACK or NAK: then we have an illegal packet type and the transfer fails. An ACK is turned into an ACK with a different sequence number; if it's an "old" sequence number it is ignored and no harm is done; if it's a "new" one, the sender will catch the error ("You ACK'd a packet I didn't send"). And so on. In other words, I think it is safe to say that the chances are practically negligible that a Kermit transfer will appear to succeed when it failed. Except perhaps for possible data corruption, which all protocols are subject to; as noted in the literature, the number of errors that a CRC will not catch is very small, and the probability that exactly such an error will occur, out of all the kinds of errors that can occur, is much smaller still. And in fact, in 20 years of experience with Kermit transfers, I can't recall a single confirmed report of the protocol reporting success when the transfer failed. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Thu Jan 27 22:58:17 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA02486 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:58:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA07282 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:38:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement Message-ID: Date: 27 Jan 00 20:26:23 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <86qta3$2a0$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > In article , Joe Doupnik wrote: > : A "friendly amendment." While the Kermit protocol, and TCP, do an > : acceptable job of confirming stages of work are completed, those techniques > : do not remove ambiguity. Frank correctly states "somewhat immune." Old > : packets whose sequence numbers have wrapped to the proper current value, > : badly garbled ones with apparently legit contents (CRC checks are hardly > : perfect), and packets delivered by mistake to the wrong session, are three > : serious concerns for protocol designers because they confuse the normal > : stage by stage confirmations. TCP uses three way handshakes, extra steps > : to extend sequence numbers in some circumstances, and pseudo headers, to > : help reduce false indications. Kermit does a pretty good job too, but not > : to the extent that TCP goes. > : The two hill army problem remains when one gets serious about comms. > : As stated, there is no certainty in the exchange, only approximation to it. > : > I meant to get back to this earlier, (so as not to leave an unsettling > impression with readers who don't study these topics) but better late than > never. > > I believe most of Joe's observations pertain more to TCP and IP than to > Kermit: > > . Old packets whose sequence numbers have wrapped. This can happen in > TCP/IP because it's a worldwide packet-switched network. A TCP packet > (encapsulated within an IP packet) can be stuck in the network for > minutes, hours, days, or weeks, and then show up after the sequence > number space has recycled one or more times, and then it can cause > trouble unless there is a higher (than TCP) level of checking. But > Kermit connections are either point-to-point in fact, or in effect, so > packets don't lurk in odd crannies of the world and reappear at a later > time -- at least not late enough to cause confusion about packet > numbers. Why? Because (in the non-streaming case) every Kermit packet > must be acknowledged. The window can't be larger than half the > sequence number space, and it can't advance until the oldest packet in > the window is acknowledged. This technique, called "sliding windows > with selective retransmission", is more conservative and robust than > the technique TCP uses in preventing packet sequence number ambiguity. > > . Packets are delivered by mistake to the wrong session. Can't happen in > Kermit because there is only one session. > > . Packets can be garbled to look like other packets. Yes, this can > happen in any communictions protocol with some calculable probability. > But let's look at the consequence in the context of atomic file > movement. First, it is possible (but highly unlikely) that a data > packet can be corrupted in such a way that its CRC will still be > correct, thus allowing bad data into a file (but only if the packet > sequence number, length, and other controls remain valid). Of course > this can happen in any communications protocol; there is a whole > literature on the subject. But what about the progress of the protocol > itself? Each possible happenstance and its consequences can be > examined in turn. For example, an ACK can turn into a NAK with the > same sequence number. No harm is done. A NAK can turn into an ACK for > the same packet. Again, no harm is done (because the seemingly ACK'd > packet will missing at the receiver, and this will cause the transfer > to fail eventually.) An ACK is turned into something besides an ACK or > NAK: then we have an illegal packet type and the transfer fails. An > ACK is turned into an ACK with a different sequence number; if it's an > "old" sequence number it is ignored and no harm is done; if it's a > "new" one, the sender will catch the error ("You ACK'd a packet I didn't > send"). And so on. > > In other words, I think it is safe to say that the chances are practically > negligible that a Kermit transfer will appear to succeed when it failed. > Except perhaps for possible data corruption, which all protocols are subject > to; as noted in the literature, the number of errors that a CRC will not > catch is very small, and the probability that exactly such an error will > occur, out of all the kinds of errors that can occur, is much smaller still. > > And in fact, in 20 years of experience with Kermit transfers, I can't recall > a single confirmed report of the protocol reporting success when the > transfer failed. > > - Frank ------- Faithful readers can see an academic discussion right away. What Frank and I are doing here is exploring the outer limits of protocols to see just how close one can come to meeting a requirement that both file transmiter and receiver agree that the file has made it across intact. It's an interesting puzzle, actually, because we learn neat things about particular protocols. Take the stray ACK arriving out of blue at the worse possible moment (masquerading as that very ACK from another session). The stray can readily happen because the comms pathway is long, such as the Internet with its many routers and paths. Ok, so it could happen, yet it would be rare indeed to line up just so. What if it did, however. An ACK tells the transmitter to dismiss the held packet and worry about the next. The file isn't changed at this point. But the receiver has its own ideas of propriety and needs the packet which is missing but is covered by that stray ACK. So, the receiver, being a good protocol engine, declines to let that go unnoticed and insists upon the missing packet being filled in soon; it won't leave home without it. Whew! A more serious stray is a data packet arriving just before the real one and the real one is rejected as a duplicate (same sequence number etc). Here we get corruption and don't know it. Bad guys like to play tricks like this with security related traffic. Such spoofing can be taken to extremes of masquerading as the real file sender or receiver, and so on. On getting sessions muddled. The way this can happen is to run two Kermits over the same underlying transport protocol stack, say TCP/IP but it could be others. A "small mistake, fixed in the next release" could deliver a packet to the wrong Kermit. Nothing bad happens unless sequence numbers and packet kind line up just right, but in principle they might when the damage caused is greatest (someone or other's principle). Things of this kind cause rotten comms and we do something about it well before file transfers could make mistakes. By the way, if this happens with TCP/IP then a nasty message is returned from that wrong stack and the affected session can be abruptly terminated. Kermit is forgiving and keeps on running. Garbling packets to look like other pristine packets is much more difficult indeed, an art form almost. But it could happen. Of these three situations the least likely to cause trouble is the third, garbling to look nice. It's just too hard to get a good match. But there is that opening where bytes get swapped wrong in a buffer deep down in the hardware and by chance the CRC check is ok. The first kind, stray packet, is more likely, but not frequent enough to draw attention of diligent system managers. We would have to have delays arranged just right for sequence numbers to have gone round one whole cycle. That's a lot of storage in the net, and long term storage there is very unlikely (it's tough getting short term storage, hence packet loss under congestion). The most easily arranged boo-boo is that mis-delivery with parallel Kermits, because it's a programming error (the error would happen a lot) or a hardware glitch (much less likely). Even then things would have to line up just so to make a difference. What I am saying is, guarantees can't be absolute. They are normally very very good indeed, but not absolute. Making a typing error denoting the file of interest is vastly more likely to occur, not to mention all the errors going into making the file and reading it later (given today's standards in programming, sigh). If you are wondering if the Kermit protocol is more immune to these things than say TCP/IP. The answer is, I do believe, Kermit is more robust than TCP/IP; it has slightly fewer windows of opportunity. Frank is saying the same things, but he is trying to be more reassuring. Fine. What I am saying is absolute certainty is unobtainable, no matter where one chooses to draw the line over which data flows. Please do check your SCSI bus and RAID controller cache memory, and type more carefully next time. Now wasn't that educational? I thought so; rather fun too. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 28 11:58:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13168 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:58:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01314 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:31:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Case Study #10: Atomic File Movement Date: 28 Jan 2000 16:31:26 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86sg8u$190$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Joe Doupnik wrote: : : ... But there is that opening where bytes get swapped wrong in a : buffer deep down in the hardware and by chance the CRC check is ok. : Swapped bytes are not that uncommon. Some years ago, we discovered that our own terminal servers had this problem under heavy load. Checksums do not catch swapped bytes; CRCs do (except perhaps few pathological cases). C-Kermit 7.0 and K95 use CRCs by default. As Joe says, if you are transferring files with Kermit over a TCP/IP connection that has bugs in it and delivers TCP packets to the wrong session, then confusion over Kermit packets, while astronomically improbable, is indeed possible, but (as Joe also says) it's the least of your problems. If TCP is delivering packets to the wrong program, think what must be happening to your passwords and credit card numbers as you surf the web! In any case, it would be unlikely that you could even log in to a host and begin a Kermit transfer under such conditions. At least Kermit provides several layers of protection on top of TCP/IP: CRCs, sequence numbers, packet framing, and the finite state automaton of the protocol engine, which requires legal sequences of events that tend not to occur by chance. Other TCP/IP applications, such as FTP and Telnet, do no error checking at all; they simply assume an error-free connection. If the underlying TCP connection is faulty, FTP and Telnet will not detect it, and certainly will not recover from it. : What I am saying is, guarantees can't be absolute. : That's true. The fact that some event has one chance in a trillion of taking place does not guarantee it won't happen to you. But we base almost everything we do on probabilities -- the chances of a car wreck, a plane crash, of getting botulism from a jar of peanut butter, or that the PC we sit in front of every day will explode in our faces. : Please do check your SCSI bus and RAID controller cache memory, and : type more carefully next time. : This is another important point. The best protocol in the world won't protect your data from interrupt conflicts and similar problems on its way from your computer's memory (after the protocol is finished with it) to the disk. In many cases we have easy ad-hoc ex-post-facto integrity checks at our disposal. If we have transferred an executable program, can we execute it? If we have transferred a Microsoft Word document, can we load it into Word and does it look about right (i.e. not like Klingon). If we transferred C source code, does it compile? These are not guarantees; they can give false positives, but you'll rarely get a false negative :-) In general, the chances that a structured computer file has been damaged in such a way that its associated application won't notice are relatively small -- not zero, but small. Plain text is the most vulnerable, since it has no associated application. It is for humans to read. If the word "not" was dropped out of a sentence, how would we know? When you are transferring a file between like platforms, they often have a utility in common that generates CRCs, checksums, or ciphers over a whole file; in such cases, that utility can be run on the file before and after transfer and the result checked for equality. Examples include the Unix 'sum' and 'md5sum'. Kermit itself offers you a platform-independent check: a 16-bit CRC over the entire file. It is not computed unless you ask for it, since it impacts performance a bit. But in C-Kermit, MS-DOS Kermit, and Kermit 95 you can: SET TRANSFER CRC-CALCULATION ON Then after a file has been transferred, each Kermit's \v(crc16) variable contains the file's CRC (as a decimal numeric string). This check can be used only for binary-mode transfers since text-mode transfers, by definition, change the file and so the before-and-after CRCs can not be expected to agree. Here's an example using a client/server connection that works no matter what platforms are involved (adapted from "Using C-Kermit", 2nd Ed, page 361): set transfer crc on ; Required in C-Kermit 7.0 and K95 1.1.17 set file type binary send mission-critical-data.bin if fail exit 1 Transfer Failed query kermit crc16 if not = \v(query) \v(crc16) exit 1 CRC mismatch (The server must also be told to "set transfer crc on".) Again, this is not a guarantee but it's a further check. The probability that Kermit's per-packet checking fails to catch an error AND the independent per-file CRCs will match in spite of an error is the product of the separate probabilities. So if the first is 0.0000002 and the second is 0.0000003, the probability of both is 0.0000000000006. You can add further and further checks if you wish. Are the lengths the same? query kermit size(mission-critical-data.bin) if not = \v(query) \fsize(mission-critical-data.bin) exit 1 Size mismatch The ultimate test might be to transfer the file back to the source platform and compare the result byte for byte with the original. But even this is no guarantee since it won't necessarily catch systematic errors, and there is always the minute possibility that an undetectable random error will occur at precisely the same spot in both transfers, in such a way that the second one "corrects" the first. But what is the chance this will happen AND the all the other checks also fail to catch an error? The point of all this is that you can safely place more trust in Kermit than you place in other well-known data transfer applications whose integrity you wouldn't think to question, such as FTP. But if you don't trust it, a wide range of tools and tests are available to boost the confidence level. But as Joe says, there can be no absolute guarantees. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 28 17:28:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22333 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA18922 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:09:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "Chris James" Subject: VMS/CMU/CKermit build problems Message-ID: <_lok4.52$03.1456@client> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:02:25 -0500 To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu VMS Version 7.1 CMU/Tek version 6.6-5A Kermit Version 7.0.196 When building it, I get the following warning messages in the module CKCNET (I've removed the informational mesages) (struct sockaddr *)&saddr,&saddrlen)) < 0) { ......................................................^ In this statement, the referenced type of the pointer value "&saddrlen" is "int", which is not compatible with "unsigned int". At line number 2601 in AXP1$DKB100:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0]CKCNET.. if (!getsockname(ttyfd, (struct sockaddr *)&l_addr, &l_slen)) { ............................................................^ In this statement, the referenced type of the pointer value "&l_slen" is "int", which is not compatible with "unsigned int". At line number 2687 in AXP1$DKB100:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0]CKCNET.. if (getpeername(ttyfd,(struct sockaddr *)&saddr,&saddrlen) < 0) { ....................................................^ In this statement, the referenced type of the pointer value "&saddrlen" is "int", which is not compatible with "unsigned int". At line number 2819 in AXP1$DKB100:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0]CKCNET.. if (!getsockname(ttyfd, (struct sockaddr *)&l_addr, &l_slen)) { ........................................................^ In this statement, the referenced type of the pointer value "&l_slen" is "int", which is not compatible with "unsigned int". At line number 4170 in AXP1$DKB100:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0]CKCNET.. s = inet_ntoa(r_addr.sin_addr); /* Convert address to s/ ................^ In this statement, "inet_ntoa(...)" of type "int", is being converted to "pointer to char". At line number 4232 in AXP1$DKB100:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0]CKCNET.. getsockname(sock,(struct sockaddr *)&l_sa,&slen); ......................................................^ In this statement, the referenced type of the pointer value "&slen" is "int", which is not compatible with "unsigned int". At line number 5822 in AXP1$DKB100:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0]CKCNET.. Completed with 0 error(s), 6 warning(s), and 24 informational messages. At line number 10584 in AXP1$DKB100:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0]CKCNET. I've read the CKVINS.TXT file and see that I may be missing an essential include file. Thing is, I'm not a "C" programmer and don't know what include files would be considered essential. Anyone run into this one? From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 28 17:58:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA29390 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:58:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA19966 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:30:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: VMS/CMU/CKermit build problems Date: 28 Jan 2000 22:29:59 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86t597$jfs$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <_lok4.52$03.1456@client>, Chris James wrote: : : VMS Version 7.1 : CMU/Tek version 6.6-5A : Kermit Version 7.0.196 : : When building it, I get the following warning messages in the module CKCNET : (I've removed the informational mesages) : : "int" ... which is not compatible with "unsigned int". : : Completed with 0 error(s), 6 warning(s), and : 24 informational messages. : At line number 10584 in : AXP1$DKB100:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0]CKCNET. : : I've read the CKVINS.TXT file and see that I may be missing an essential : include file. Thing is, I'm not a "C" programmer and don't know what include : files would be considered essential. : : Anyone run into this one? : I don't think so. In all the time we were beta testing C-Kermit 7.0, and announcing the tests all over the place, including the VMS newsgroup and other DEC-oriented newsgroups, I don't believe I recall one since instance of anybody trying to build it with CMU/Tek TCP/IP. All the errors you listed were warnings and so should not have stopped the compilation. They are most likely harmless ones too. So? Did it link? Can you run it? Can you make a Telnet connection with it? - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Jan 28 21:58:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19069 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA02052 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:29:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Nick Boyce Subject: Re: No Screen Output During Scripted Transfers ? Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:22:57 GMT Organization: Sirius Intelligent Doors Message-ID: <38924e13.2990940@news.demon.co.uk> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 28 Jan 2000 00:16:59 GMT, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: >Nick Boyce wrote: >: I have an annoying but non-critical problem with scripted Kermit file >: transfers not displaying anything (at all) to the screen. >: ... >: I ... am feeding it into Kermit using "kermit < myscript.scr" at a >: Unix command prompt. >: >That's why you don't see the display. Kermit senses that its standard >input is not a terminal, and therefore does not attempt to write anything >to the terminal, since that could cause it to block. > >Just remove the "<" from your command line: Thanks - that was it. Boy, do I feel foolish ... Um, we *do* have the Kermit 6.0 book at work, and I didn't see that documented anywhere ... new 7.0 edition pending ... hint hint .. "gotchas section" for novices perhaps ... I'm much obliged - thanks again. Nick Boyce Bristol, UK -- "Come 1st January 2000, and the collapse of computing as we know it, there will be only 3 things that really count: Food, Gold, and Ammo" From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 29 12:58:42 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06955 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:58:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA10060 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:30:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: No Screen Output During Scripted Transfers ? Date: 29 Jan 2000 17:30:06 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <86v82u$9q9$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <38924e13.2990940@news.demon.co.uk>, Nick Boyce wrote: : On 28 Jan 2000 00:16:59 GMT, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) : wrote: : >Just remove the "<" from your command line: : : Thanks - that was it. Boy, do I feel foolish ... : : Um, we *do* have the Kermit 6.0 book at work, and I didn't see that : documented anywhere ... new 7.0 edition pending ... hint hint .. "gotchas : section" for novices perhaps ... : Yes, it probably could be emphasized / highlighted better. The idea is introduced at the bottom of page 328. The command-line syntax is documented in Appendix I (p.461-462) and again in the UNIX Appendix on pages 508-510. At the bottom of page 509, it explains that the "kermit < scriptfile" method is not recommended because Kermit can't "rewind" its standard input, but doesn't explicitly mention the fact that if its standard input is redirected, writing to standard output is inhibited. We'll clarify this in the next edition. Thanks. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Jan 29 18:28:47 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA10687 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:28:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA26402 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:03:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <012900174906not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:01:57 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi Charles, About "MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of January 26: CA> I've been watching `the team' as they re-post old files trying CA> desperately to push all their ill-chosen comments into archival CA> storage on `dejanews'. Yeah, i had started notice... If i were the "team", i wouldn't be too proud of the way they handled things myself! The gibberish stuff which gets poured in all the sudden (and which constitutes a big share of the ~NG~'s late content) is no surprize - it's only coherent with the rest: what you have here smells like control freaks who have managed to gather that much: control. Well, maybe so but they haven't earned my respect. The team got special permissions from Columbia? So it seems!... :-7 I suspect that Columbia, as a sponsoring institution, isn't as generous as it used to be; hence, those repeated concerns we seen about money. %-7 They might not care about any provocation being perpetrated by the team. CA> If I was doing this from work as they are and being paid while this CA> nonsense was going on... I don't think Joe Doupnik realizes that CA> the killing of MSKermit is necessary to sell copies of K95. I don't know, maybe he does!... What i do know is that he wanted me to believe that nothing is wrong on his side and NOW YOU TOO YOU DON'T MAKE IT THRU: i've seen your reaction to my post of Jan. 25 about me reading Joe only from spasmodic quoted fragments (hence, my calling to my ~ISP~ about it). I can read you from Columbia's ~NG~ archive but not from the Sympatico news server: i'm not buillible enough to believe that's only pure coincidence! Somebody must be messing with THE PROPAGATION of the messages all right!... 8-o All i see is a number of postings from Mark Sapiro, Frank da Cruz, Mike Freeman, David Stow, Nick Boyce, and to my surprize (a rather good surprize): Dan Lanciani, author of the ~ODIPkt~ utility! :) Anyway. About seventy messages and a week later, the last post i see from you via Bell's server is this: * From: cangel@famvid.com * Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 9h16 (GMT) (posted at 2h16 MST) * Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities * Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc * Message-ID: * References: <012000052518not-2-disclose@the.net> * Lines: 28 * Size: 1548 (bytes) * Xref: news1.bellglobal.com comp.protocols.kermit.misc:20711 I went to `DejaNews' and the posts of January 27, from us both, made it. It seems that you were right: this is nothing productive... Doupnik's post of January 25 is there too... nonetheless, i don't read from him on my ~ISP~'s news server (as neither from you any longer)... It seems we are forced to address the team at priori and if the team doesn't like our opinions then we can't reach to each other... It wasn't appreciated that my base of discussion was related to DOS, "legacy" PCs, `ZMoDem'... RIGHT FROM MY OPENING. I bet they don't praise your views neither, it's *THEIR* choice but now it's clear they're not even willing to assume!... They'll argue we weren't polite enough since their own ways elude them! [...] CA> MSKermit _also_ operates efficiently in the Windows environment and CA> is free while K95 is not. Seems fairly obvious that you can't give CA> free working copies while trying to sell another? Not mentionning that BBSes on `OS/2', etc. have nothing to do with it... Ho! And it reminds me of that stingy comment about BBS operators trying to make a penny out of it... Isn't it remote from reality or what?! :( CA> I originally thought he was in on this with `the team' but now I'm CA> not so sure. Joe seems quite fond of his MSK and I can't imagine CA> under what circumstances he would allow it to wither and die. Maybe he's just more tired of it than he can be found of it - 2 decades is a very long time! I wonder, would Jim Henson still agree on granting the `MS-Kermit' team his permission of using a character's name from his own creation, should he happen to learn how things have evolved lately?! After all, Kermit was a rather nice Muppet/puppet, at the origin... He was a charming frog, not a pit-bull dog you'd see in Monsters!... 8-o Frank Da Cruz sure will need to review his book; that mention about the "Kermit" word being a Celtic equivalent which means "free" has no place in there, anymore... nor that comment about this child of the sixties! CA> When Joe is out of the picture MSKermit will probably be deleted CA> from the Columbia servers and since Columbia has arranged to own it CA> they can demand it's removal from the others. In the end K95 will CA> fail and damage the reputation of kermit in the process. I won't be surprized a bit when it happens and i'm afraid the reputation of kermit already has a few stains on it, as far as i'm concerned! :-( [...] CA> I'm baayyccckkk! Not everywhere... MS> About "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities" of January 1, 5, 7... I MS> introduce myself, i'm a DOS_InterNet user... ...meaning: - 8088 MS> 4,77 Mhz ~CPU~ - 640 Kb ~RAM~... TO UPGRADE THE HARDWARE OR TO MS> SWITCH TO PROTOCOLS LIKE ~FTP~/~HTTP~ *IS NOT* AN OPTION. JRD> 486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free for the asking... CA> You see Michel said this was not an option and was ignored. More than just ignored, i'd say! After some retrospective, you can see that the `ZMoDem' mention obscured everything else, afterwards!... 8-7 CA> The folklore of free `486s is probably true if you work in academia CA> where they get new equipment for free... For the rest of us even CA> scrap metal has a price tag. Hummm... They really liked the friendliness of the 60s, i guess... 8-o Oh, but we already knew that those people did probably live in a perfect world of their own! I wouldn't be surprized if they even got a courtesy Pentium *LapTop* to bring around, a few years ago!... Don't forget they do have to keep top-notch, specially in universities - and _you_ pay!... I applause at programs which do "the more with the least" but that's me. [...] MS> I finally read your messages (not just short spasmodic quoted MS> fragments) which you intended as a reply to my previous posts. CA> Your choice of `spasmodic' lends that feeling of "just wanting to CA> help" to your reply. I'm not sure Joe really cares since he never came back at me after i pointed him to a possible and major propagation flaw... Indeed, he may very well like to lose his time at typing "helpfull" posts which won't reach the addresse... Or to the least, not before the other guys have messed things up a little bit with that poor addresse... :-o What i've seen here just escapes my sense of rationality, quite frankly. [...] JRD> Stop accusing people. Then please understand just a bit more how JRD> News is propagated as storing and forwarding, merging and splitting JRD> of streams of messages, some of which relays drop or repeat. Hours JRD> or days may pass... It is not my end of things. Zmodem isn't in JRD> the works... Nor will port 25 to be opened... ...decision stands. CA> That particular port was probably being used to feed back some of CA> the attitude that was received here originally. You locked it out CA> in self-defense. Refusing to allow the MSKermit terminal app to use CA> external protocols (via the `int 14h' hook) is... ...irrational... CA> Personally, I don't care about port #25 but I can see why `the team' CA> would fear it's use. All the denies are about what the team wants, not what the user needs... If ~IP~ port #25 hadn't been an exception, i just would have had a tiny and convenient tool for managing my mail. `NetMail v2.12', for example, is one more application which requires some *disk-space* to do the same thing `Kermit' can do for me. What's more, `NetMail' is straightforward (quite too straightforward for my taste!): a `MS-Kermit' script allows me to view the messages list with the sizes and then i can decide what i want. Moreover, i don't have to risk loosing anything; a problem which i heard happens to people using specific applications, like `NetMail'... [...] JRD> To decode your script problems I suggest first reducing... ...the JRD> speed problems you are concerned about... ...your 8088 machine JRD> runs out of cpu cycles and the floppy drive remains slow. CA> Neither Michel nor I have said that MSKermit is slow on the 8088... CA> ...we have both said the opposite. ...the IP stack seems to CA> function properly when others do not. If external protocols could CA> access this it would be a fall back for those BBS with poor or no... You are only waisting your time, Charles! The script he didn't read or try, the concerns he got them all wrong (or pretended to)... statement, he keeps getting us wrong because his definition of "embellishment" just doesn't leave space to include any external protocol in the picture... Think of it: two decades and still just *ONE* file transfer protocol in the `MS-Kermit' emulation program - nothing else. No `CISB+', `HSLink', `SMoDem' or whatever... nada! The hole world is supposed to adapt and not the opposite - since `Kermit' is near to "perfection"... %-7 [...] JRD> Lastly, we have pointed you to the source code more than once. CA> I was directed to something like 4 or 5 different places and the CA> code was not there. Me neither. I guess we must wait for `MS-Kermit' to exit it's present (very long) "Beta" stage - or we may ask to join the "Beta" team, euh... JRD> ...try netlab2.usu.edu, directory kermit. Try netlab1.usu. edu... CA> The first time I went to these the code was not there and access to CA> the `mirror' directory was denied. "Denial" is the magic word here. IMHO! JRD> I can't help more than that... CA> ...not quite accurate. See my comment, right above!!! 8-o [...] CA> With your years of working with the code it shouldn't take very long CA> for you to determine if adding a `hook' for exernal protocols is CA> feasible without major surgery. Wake up! You and me must know that this has been too many years already and the professor happens to be quite tired of it. That's all there is to it! P-> The only major surgery you may ever expect won't be done on `MS-Kermit'!... I'm sorry Charles but your only option is to go at some other author like the one of `Anzio'. Of course, commercial package$ as `GLink for DOS' might be an option too, if only the cost could be made a little bit more reasonable, especially for such a "legacy" thing... 8-7 Only, we can't ask `MS-Kermit' to be of help in the "legacy" PC world, even if it already works fine (until you need `ZMoDem', that is!)... :( One other choice is to try to make the BBS SysOps install whatever we'd like them to install... which would be quite silly of us, i'm afraid!!! At best, we may try to check for the `RLogIn' ~IP~ port (#513?)!... If it's an unused option that's just sitting there then we might have some success asking SysOps to use it (`TextWin', etc. would do the rest)... [...] The team has a means to imperviate the propagation of your posts so that they can't reach me via my regular ~ISP~; the same must be true of me. They sure wouldn't discuss the ~FOSSIL~ extension topic even if you told them that you're going to manage with it all by yourself, alone... not even a theoretical topic related to THAT. Your exposition is now being limited - voluntarily, i.e. you're not getting thru too well... %-( I submit to you that only a fraction of this ~NG~'s readers are reading us as of now... Let's face it, that's how it ends up after only a couple postings done over less than a month! No specifics here, they just prefer politics if anything else would lead to "ZMoDem", a *TABOO* word they despise most. :-7 [...] I don't think i'll be back unless there's a major gear toward a change. Bye! See you around, elsewhere. Best salutations, :-) Michel Samson From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 31 09:29:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19775 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:29:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA06182 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:18:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: rrodriguez Subject: Kermit/95 multitasking problem Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:08:36 GMT Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Is there a way to ensure that Kermit/95 windows have a reasonable share of the Windows timeslice resources? Sometimes when running large resource-hogging Lotus Notes agents, I have trouble in Kermit/95 windows with characters typed appearing out of sequence or getting dropped altogether. This did not happen with the same agents running on OS/2; I think that there was a CONFIG.SYS parameter to ensure that Kermit/2 would get its fair share of system resources. From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 31 09:29:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19777 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:29:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA06664 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:28:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: VMS/CMU/CKermit build problems Date: 31 Jan 2000 14:28:23 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <874667$6g4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Chris James wrote: : Sorry Frank, hit the wrong button. Ignore the message sent directly to you, : the example was slightly incorrect Here again with the correct example, : : That was the first thing I did. If built fine but did the following.... : : (IP addresses changed due to company security policy) : : C-Kermit 7.0.196, 1 Jan 2000, for OpenVMS VAX : Copyright (C) 1985, 2000, : Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York. : Type ? or HELP for help. : DISK25:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0] C-Kermit>telnet 111.222.333.444:2005 : DNS Lookup... : Can't open connection to 111.222.333.444:2005333.444 : : Looks like the last 2 octets of the IP address is being appended to the IP : address. If there were some integer conversion problems involving length : strings in the CKCNET module, I'd imagine this sort of thing would occur. : Please start Kermit and give these commands: log debug telnet 111.222.333.444:2005 Then send the resulting debug.log file to kermit-support@columbia.edu. Thanks! - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 31 09:29:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19780 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:29:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA05370 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:02:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "Chris James" Subject: Re: VMS/CMU/CKermit build problems Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:48:48 -0500 To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Sorry Frank, hit the wrong button. Ignore the message sent directly to you, the example was slightly incorrect Here again with the correct example, That was the first thing I did. If built fine but did the following.... (IP addresses changed due to company security policy) C-Kermit 7.0.196, 1 Jan 2000, for OpenVMS VAX Copyright (C) 1985, 2000, Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York. Type ? or HELP for help. DISK25:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0] C-Kermit>telnet 111.222.333.444:2005 DNS Lookup... Can't open connection to 111.222.333.444:2005333.444 Looks like the last 2 octets of the IP address is being appended to the IP address. If there were some integer conversion problems involving length strings in the CKCNET module, I'd imagine this sort of thing would occur. Would a list of successfully included modules be helpful? Frank da Cruz wrote in message news:86t597$jfs$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu... > In article <_lok4.52$03.1456@client>, Chris James > : wrote: > : > : VMS Version 7.1 > : CMU/Tek version 6.6-5A > : Kermit Version 7.0.196 > : > : When building it, I get the following warning messages in the module > : CKCNET (I've removed the informational mesages) > : > : "int" ... which is not compatible with "unsigned int". > : > : Completed with 0 error(s), 6 warning(s), and > : 24 informational messages. > : At line number 10584 in > : AXP1$DKB100:[PRODUCTS.KERMIT.7_0]CKCNET. > : > : I've read the CKVINS.TXT file and see that I may be missing an essential > : include file. Thing is, I'm not a "C" programmer and don't know what > : include files would be considered essential. > : > : Anyone run into this one? > : > I don't think so. In all the time we were beta testing C-Kermit 7.0, > and announcing the tests all over the place, including the VMS newsgroup > and other DEC-oriented newsgroups, I don't believe I recall one since > instance of anybody trying to build it with CMU/Tek TCP/IP. > > All the errors you listed were warnings and so should not have stopped the > compilation. They are most likely harmless ones too. > > So? Did it link? Can you run it? Can you make a Telnet connection with it? > > - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 31 10:29:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02330 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:29:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA09531 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:25:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: Kermit/95 multitasking problem Date: 31 Jan 2000 15:25:38 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <8749hi$99n$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , rrodriguez wrote: : Is there a way to ensure that Kermit/95 windows have a reasonable : share of the Windows timeslice resources? Sometimes when running : large resource-hogging Lotus Notes agents, I have trouble in : Kermit/95 windows with characters typed appearing out of sequence : or getting dropped altogether. This did not happen with the same : agents running on OS/2; I think that there was a CONFIG.SYS : parameter to ensure that Kermit/2 would get its fair share of : system resources. This is not a problem with Kermit 95. The character reversal or loss is taking place within Windows 95/98. This bug was reported to Microsoft years ago. They have chosen not to look at it. Windows 95/98 is still a DOS based operating environment. Use NT (or the forthcoming win2000 pro) if you want a multitasking operating system with process protection and reliable time slice management. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 31 18:59:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18720 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:59:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA06302 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:41:22 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7.0 makefile bugs Date: 31 Jan 2000 23:41:22 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <8756j2$64q$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <3896190b$0$81670@news.execpc.com>, Steve Manning wrote: : I found a number of inconsitancies in the makefile provided with : the Unix distribution of C-Kermit 7.0. Most appear to derive : from an incomplete renaming of the sections of the file dealing : with SCO OpenServer 5.0.0, along with a missing back-slash in the : sco32v504netgccel section. : : I'm appending a diff. : Thanks. We caught most of these ourselves when making binaries after the release announcement. Unfortunately we can't replace the tarballs without causing an international incident since that breaks MD5 checksums on them are maintained all over creation. There's an up-to-date copy of the makefile "loose" in: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/f/makefile - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Jan 31 18:59:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA18722 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:59:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA05918 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:33:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Steve Manning Subject: C-Kermit 7.0 makefile bugs Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:21:37 -0600 Message-ID: <3896190b$0$81670@news.execpc.com> Organization: ExecPC Internet - Milwaukee, WI To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I found a number of inconsitancies in the makefile provided with the Unix distribution of C-Kermit 7.0. Most appear to derive from an incomplete renaming of the sections of the file dealing with SCO OpenServer 5.0.0, along with a missing back-slash in the sco32v504netgccel section. I'm appending a diff. Steve Manning Systems Administrator Mega Marts Inc. Milwaukee, WI USA manning@execpc.com ===== begin ===== --- makefile.orig Thu Jan 6 15:54:24 2000 +++ makefile Thu Jan 27 19:31:26 2000 @@ -524,11 +524,11 @@ # # + for SCO ODT 2.0, "make sco32v4net" # + for SCO ODT 3.0, "make sco-odt30" -# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5), "make sco32v5" -# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5) with networking, "make sco32v5net" -# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5), gcc, "make sco32v5gcc" -# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5), gcc, with networking, "make sco32v5netgcc" -# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5) as above, ELF binary, "make sco32v5netgccelf" +# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5), "make sco32v500" +# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5) with networking, "make sco32v500net" +# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5), gcc, "make sco32v500gcc" +# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5), gcc, with networking, "make sco32v500netgcc" +# + for SCO OpenServer 5.0 (OSR5) as above, ELF binary, "make sco32v500netgccelf" # + for SCO OpenServer 5.0.4, use "make sco32v504xxx" entries as above. # + for SCO OpenServer 5.0.5, use "make sco32v505xxx" entries as above. # + for SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 with UDK, use "make sco32v505udk". @@ -4961,37 +4961,37 @@ #Note: NOSYSLOG required for non-net entries because it requires sco32v500gcc: @echo Using gcc... - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5 CC=gcc CC2=gcc \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500 CC=gcc CC2=gcc \ KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} "KFLAGS= $(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0 with networking, gcc. sco32v500netgcc: @echo TCP/IP networking added - using gcc... - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5net CC=gcc CC2=gcc \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500net CC=gcc CC2=gcc \ KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} "KFLAGS=$(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0 with networking, gcc, elf. sco32v500netgccelf: @echo TCP/IP networking added - using gcc, dynamic elf library - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} "KFLAGS=-O3 -belf" "LNKFLAGS=-belf" #SCO OpenServer 5.0.4 (SCO UNIX 3.2v5.0.4) with SCO development tools. #Like 5.0, but adds high serial speeds. First POSIX-based SCO version. sco32v504: - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5 KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500 KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR504 -b elf -DPOSIX $(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0.4 with gcc, no networking. sco32v504gcc: @echo Using gcc... - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5 "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500 "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR504 -DPOSIX $(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0.4 with networking, SCO development tools. sco32v504net: @echo TCP/IP networking added... - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5net KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500net KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ "KFLAGS=-b elf -DSCO_OSR504 -DPOSIX $(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0.4 with networking, gcc. @@ -4999,13 +4999,13 @@ @echo TCP/IP networking added - using gcc... @echo If gcc crashes on ckwart.c then build it by hand: @echo " gcc -o wart -DCK_SCOV5 ckwart.c" - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR504 -DPOSIX $(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0.4 with networking, gcc, elf. sco32v504netgccelf: @echo TCP/IP networking added - using gcc, dynamic elf library - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR504 -DPOSIX -O3 -belf $(KFLAGS)" \ LNKFLAGS="-belf" @@ -5013,25 +5013,25 @@ #SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 (SCO UNIX 3.2v5.0.5) with SCO development tools. #Like 5.0, but adds high serial speeds. First POSIX-based SCO version. sco32v505: - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5 KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500 KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR505 -b elf -DPOSIX $(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 (SCO UNIX 3.2v5.0.5) with UDK. sco32v505udk: - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5 KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500 KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR505 -DDCLTIMEVAL -b elf -DPOSIX $(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 with gcc, no networking. sco32v505gcc: @echo Using gcc... - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5 "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500 "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR505 -DPOSIX -funsigned-char $(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 with networking, SCO development tools. sco32v505net: @echo TCP/IP networking added... - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5net KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500net KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR505 -b elf -DPOSIX $(KFLAGS)" #SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 with networking, gcc. @@ -5039,7 +5039,7 @@ @echo TCP/IP networking added - using gcc... @echo If gcc crashes on ckwart.c then build it by hand: @echo " gcc -o wart -DCK_SCOV5 ckwart.c" - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" \ KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} \ "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR505 -DPOSIX -funsigned-char $(KFLAGS)" @@ -5052,7 +5052,7 @@ #SCO OpenServer 5.0.5 with networking, gcc, elf. sco32v505netgccelf: @echo TCP/IP networking added - using gcc, dynamic elf library - $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v5net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" + $(MAKE) "MAKE=$(MAKE)" sco32v500net "CC=gcc" "CC2=gcc" "KFLAGS=-DSCO_OSR505 -DPOSIX -funsigned-char -O3 -belf $(KFLAGS)" \ KTARGET=$${KTARGET:-$(@)} LNKFLAGS="-belf" ===== end ===== From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 1 00:59:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA26521 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:59:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA26843 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:34:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: David Gentzel Subject: K95 dropping characters Date: 01 Feb 2000 00:33:47 -0500 Organization: UUNET Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Somewhere in the patch sequence (i.e. it was not in the 1.1.4 I originally purchased, but appeared somewhere before 1.1.17) K95 began to intermittently drop a single output character when the K95 window got the focus (either windowed or full screen). For example, if I have emacs running in a telnet session with K95 as the telnet client, work in some other window for a while, and then shift back to K95, and hit a character to cause a screen update, the first output character (virtually always an ESC) is sometimes lost, causing a slight screen garble. Although it would be a pain, I could backtrack and try to find out exactly what version began to exhibit this behaviour. -- Dave Gentzel gentzel@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~gentzel/ From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 1 01:29:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA27677 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 01:29:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA27809 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 01:02:37 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: K95 dropping characters Date: 1 Feb 2000 06:02:34 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <875stq$r4u$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , David Gentzel wrote: : Somewhere in the patch sequence (i.e. it was not in the 1.1.4 I originally : purchased, but appeared somewhere before 1.1.17) K95 began to intermittently : drop a single output character when the K95 window got the focus (either : windowed or full screen). : : For example, if I have emacs running in a telnet session with K95 as the : telnet client, work in some other window for a while, and then shift back to : K95, and hit a character to cause a screen update, the first output character : (virtually always an ESC) is sometimes lost, causing a slight screen garble. : : Although it would be a pain, I could backtrack and try to find out exactly : what version began to exhibit this behaviour. Please don't waste any time on this. 1.1.19 will be released as soon as I can get the documentation finished. Not that anyone has reported this bug since the release of 1.1.17, but 1.1.19 fixes a bug that could have this side effect on some systems. (it is specific to tcp/ip connections and is timing dependent upon CPU speed, memory usage, and system load.) Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 1 17:29:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19099 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:29:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14614 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:08:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Francis R Bridge Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 01 Feb 2000 15:35:36 -0600 Organization: Motorola CIG Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cangel@famvid.com writes: cangel@famvid.com writes: > Hello Joe - > > I'm baayyccckkk! > > On 1900-01-25 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: > > > JD>>JRD> 486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free for the asking... > > You see Michel said this was not an option and was ignored. The folklore of > free `486s is probably true if you work in academia where they get new > equipment for free or in the government where they place no value on what > they no longer require. For the rest of us even scrap metal has a price > tag. No need to work for the government or academia. Try any of the *.forsale groups - many people are selling 486's for less than $30 or giving them away outright. Even for someone earning the minimum wage, the $30 would quickly repay itself in reduced boot time and sanity over a 8088. If one still can't manage the cost, then politely ask on one of those newsgroups for a machine as a donation and you will likely get one. Myself and others have disposed of several obsolete machines that way. Frank From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 1 17:29:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19101 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:29:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA14272 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:03:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7.0 makefile bugs From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:57:04 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-01-31 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: FD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc FD> In article <3896190b$0$81670@news.execpc.com>, FD> Steve Manning wrote: FD> : I found a number of inconsitancies in the makefile provided with FD> : the Unix distribution of C-Kermit 7.0. Most appear to derive FD> : from an incomplete renaming of the sections of the file dealing FD> : with SCO OpenServer 5.0.0, along with a missing back-slash in the FD> : sco32v504netgccel section. FD> : I'm appending a diff. FD> Thanks. We caught most of these ourselves when making binaries FD> after the release announcement. If this is what happened then it begs the question of just what were you using the source code for BEFORE you did the release? Screen savers perhaps? FD> Unfortunately we can't replace the FD> tarballs without causing an international incident since that FD> breaks MD5 checksums on them are maintained all over creation. Assuming none of the sites realize they are dealing with a new release and never update their files. Considering that you did not compile this prior to release I can understand how you would make such an assumption. GIGO FD> There's an up-to-date copy of the makefile "loose" in: FD> ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/f/makefile As a `boo' file or UUE? From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 1 19:29:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA10405 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:29:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA21625 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:23:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: C-Kermit 7.0 Update Notes Date: 2 Feb 2000 00:23:58 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <877teu$l3m$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu To make it easier for everybody to find what they're looking for in the C-Kermit 7.0 update notes, the ckermit2.txt file has been converted to HyperText Markup Language (HTML) and placed on the Kermit website as: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit2.html It's big, of course, so it takes a while to load. But it should be easier to read, with the same typeface conventions as the printed manual, plus all the references and internal cross-references are now hyperlinks. Nothing fancy -- it should be usable by any browser at all (HTML 1.0 and later :-) It's still all one big file, which is advantageous for text searches. The case studies (posted here over the past few weeks) that were added to the website now link into specific sections of the new update notes page, so you can just click on (e.g.) "Section 7.19" and go straight there. Case 10 seems to have been the most discussion-provoking, and all the followups have been collected with it: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/case10.html In other news, version 7.0 has been holding up well. As noted or implied in other postings, some alterations were made after the release to make it build on platforms that were not accessible before the release date, most of them to the makefile (the one involving SCO OSR5 was caused by a "cleaning up" edit to the makefile after the binaries were built -- evidently it was interrupted in the middle by a phone call or something). We've collected about 240 C-Kermit 7.0 binaries so far, which might be some kind of record, plus 100 G-Kermit ones. We hope to go to press with the C-Kermit 7.0 CDROM soon, so if you can make any binaries that are not listed (or that are listed without the "+" sign) in: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html#binlist or can add any new G-Kermit binaries: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/gkermit.html please let me know. Some of the major gaps include: . Unixware 2.0 or earlier . SCO OSR5.0.0 . SCO UNIX prior to 3.2.4 . Old DG/UX versions . OSF 2.0 or 3.0 . HP-UX 10.30 . AIX 3.0 or 3.1 . AIX 3.2.5 . AIX 4.2-point-anything . AIX or any other OS on RT PC . Motorola 88K with System V R3 . BSDI releases prior to 4.0 . Sequent DYNIX/ptc prior to 4.4.2 . ESIX . Encore Umax, any version . 4.2 or 4.3 BSD on any architecture . Red Hat Linux prior to 5.1, any architecture . NeXTSTEP 3.x on Intel . Any QNX version priot to 4.25 . Unisys SVR3 And for C-Kermit only: . Stratus VOS on m68k or i860 . Stratus FTX on Continuum . Old VMS versions Thanks! - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 2 11:59:37 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA16747 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:59:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA28318 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:45:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Steve Manning Subject: Re: C-Kermit 7.0 makefile bugs Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:39:39 -0600 Message-ID: <38985dd5$0$6810@news.execpc.com> Organization: ExecPC Internet - Milwaukee, WI To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cangel@famvid.com wrote: > >On 2000-01-31 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: > >FD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc >FD> In article <3896190b$0$81670@news.execpc.com>, > >FD> Steve Manning wrote: >FD> : I found a number of inconsitancies in the makefile provided with >FD> : the Unix distribution of C-Kermit 7.0. Most appear to derive >FD> : from an incomplete renaming of the sections of the file dealing >FD> : with SCO OpenServer 5.0.0, along with a missing back-slash in the >FD> : sco32v504netgccel section. > >FD> : I'm appending a diff. > >FD> Thanks. We caught most of these ourselves when making binaries >FD> after the release announcement. > >If this is what happened then it begs the question of just what were >you using the source code for BEFORE you did the release? Screen >savers perhaps? Cripes... I forgot there were trolls lurking. Sir, the attitude you flaunt so blatantly does absolutely no service that I can see to the Kermit community in general. Or perhaps I should say that it does the same service as jackals perform for the antelope herd. I for one don't want any culling done here. Your points can be made without being hostile and adversarial. I'm sure you feel you have adequate reason to adopt such an attitude. Fine, but *I* don't share your pain, nor should I have to see it splattered all over the newsgroup. Plus, I highly resent having the spirit of my posting turned around as you attempted to do. I *almost* felt regret that I'd posted something in a helpful spirit only to have it turned against the folks who I'd been trying to help, until I made myself focus on where the problem actually lay. Far from being productive, your tirades tend to drive people away - from your points, and from the newsgroup in general I fear. If I were a new viewer of this group, I'd be concerned about the S/N ratio and given the huge volumes of "data" in newsgroups these days, I might opt to not participate in this one. Or were I someone with a lot more knowledge about the inner working of the kermit family of programs, I'd be a lot more inclined to just keep my comments to myself and avoid the almost inevitable churn that would follow. I hope that the developers don't view it a dis-incentive to keep this group up to date on technical issues either. As far as this bug goes... it happens. It was (I'd wager) probably a last-minute stylistic cleanup on the makefile that came after the file had gone through QC. Is it right that it happened? No, and I'm sure that the developers would say the same thing. But is it the end of western civilization as we know it? Well, I hope not anyway... I don't post this in hope that you'll change your attitude. I have little hope of that. I guess I just want to do two things: let the folks at Columbia know that there are those of us out here who *want* to be helpful, and affirm to the lurkers out there (which I usually am too) that you are the exception. And a candidate for consideration to be included in their Killfile. I'm done responding on this, for *I* have much more productive things to do as well. But feel free to fire away... not that you need any encouragement. Steve Manning Systems Administrator Mega Marts Inc. Milwaukee, WI USA manning@execpc.com From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 2 14:59:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23974 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA08779 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:55:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: chase_meridian@my-deja.com Subject: linux kermit vs W95 hyperterm Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:39:47 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <87a162$tc1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi I am fiddling with radio-pad which connects via a serial port to a pc. Responsiveness is great and immediate when using Hyperterm under windows. However, using kermit7 under linux results in huge delays. For instance, the pad prompt takes 5 to 10 seconds to appear when pressing CR. Seeing as settings are limited under windows (4800 , 7E1, Xon/Xoff flow) and these are easily set using kermit, what else needs to be configured for responsiveness to be the same? The only thing that sticks out is the "set carrier-watch off" which is required to get any response under kermit. Thanks in advance CM (chase.meridian@usa.net) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 2 15:29:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29339 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:29:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09711 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:11:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: linux kermit vs W95 hyperterm Date: 2 Feb 2000 20:11:14 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87a312$9fc$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <87a162$tc1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : I am fiddling with radio-pad which connects via a serial port : to a pc. Responsiveness is great and immediate when using : Hyperterm under windows. : : However, using kermit7 under linux results in huge : delays. For instance, the pad prompt takes 5 to 10 seconds to : appear when pressing CR. : : Seeing as settings are limited under windows (4800 , 7E1, : Xon/Xoff flow) and these are easily set using kermit, what : else needs to be configured for responsiveness to be the : same? : : The only thing that sticks out is the "set carrier-watch off" : which is required to get any response under kermit. : There is nothing in Kermit that would make it sluggish in delivering characters in each direction. To check this, why don't you try the same connection with some other Linux program -- cu, tip, minicom, etc -- and see if response is any different. If it is, I'll be surprised (but interested). If it isn't, this shows the application is delivering characters at whatever rate they are delivered by the device driver. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "radio pad", but I suppose it is some kind of radio modem. The last time I looked at these, most of them were half duplex, and used RTS/CTS protocol (not full-duplex RTS/CTS flow control) to control the direction of sending. Most Unixes have no provision for this, and that probably includes Linux. Of course neither does Windows or HyperTerminal. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 2 17:59:40 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02739 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 17:59:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA18331 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 17:53:54 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <8y2m4.17191$ox5.4034701@tw11.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 22:51:48 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu FD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc FD>> On 1900-01-25 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: FD>> JD>>JRD> 486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free FD>> JD>>JRD> for the asking... FD>> You see Michel said this was not an option and was FD>> ignored. The folklore of free `486s is probably true if FD>> you work in academia where they get new equipment for free FD>> or in the government where they place no value on what FD>> they no longer require. For the rest of us even scrap FD>> metal has a price tag. FD> No need to work for the government or academia. Try any of FD> the *. forsale groups - many people are selling 486's for FD> less than $30 or giving them away outright. Even for FD> someone earning the minimum wage, the $30 would quickly FD> repay itself in reduced boot time and sanity over a 8088. You completely ignored that it was not an option. This is probably the third or fourth time it has been ignored. I made the mistake of mentioning money and gave you an alternate subject to discuss. I realize it was a mistake. First they are free, then $30. At some point we will get to the real-world price that anything useable is about $100. As for earning minimum wage you're assuming that the money is the problem and choice has no value. There is the assumption that because you enjoy newer systems _everybody_ does. Do you have a friend who restores old automobiles and do you tell him he should buy something newer? Most of the time this is fun for me and a few others who also enjoy doing it the old-fashioned way. As for earning minimum wage, you probably don't think about it often but I keep finding myself communicating via email with shut-ins who are handicapped and cannot even earn minimum wage. Their income is probably below minimum wage, I don't ask them. They know I won't knock their equipment or tell them to get something better I guess? FD> If one still can't manage the cost, then politely ask on FD> one of those newsgroups for a machine as a donation and you FD> will likely get one. Myself and others have disposed of FD> several obsolete machines that way. Yes, Frank, you can throw away what those earning minimum wage cannot purchase. I'm happy for you. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 2 18:29:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07734 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:29:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA19722 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:19:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 2 Feb 2000 23:19:53 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87ae2p$j87$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <8y2m4.17191$ox5.4034701@tw11.nn.bcandid.com>, wrote: : As for earning minimum wage, you probably don't think about it : often but I keep finding myself communicating via email with : shut-ins who are handicapped and cannot even earn minimum wage. : Their income is probably below minimum wage, I don't ask them. :... : : FD> will likely get one. Myself and others have disposed of : FD> several obsolete machines that way. : : Yes, Frank, you can throw away what those earning minimum wage : cannot purchase. I'm happy for you. : Charles, please attribute quotes to the people who made them. That wasn't me. As you might know, the Kermit Project has always made a point of producing accessible software compatible with low-end equipment and with speech and Braille devices. We have always done this and we do it today. You can run MS-DOS Kermit on a Day-1 IBM PC with only floppy diskettes and 640K (less, really, maybe 512K) of memory (*), and you can hook your accessibility devices to it and it works great. If you have a hearing impairment, it also has a visible bell. The key mapping provides relief to those who have difficulty with the keyboard. All of this in software that you can download for free and get tech support for free too. Within reason! The result might be "ugly" by modern standards, but we believe functionality and accessibility are more important than the slickness required for mass market appeal and financial success. We serve, and have always served, the very constituency for whom you are speaking up. Your quarrel is not with us, it's with the BBSs that don't install a decent Kermit implementation. It's not our job to make Zmodem work better. That's not included in your free tech support. (*) If you have a PC with less memory, you can run earlier releases of MS-DOS Kermit -- they are all in our archive. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 2 19:59:41 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26117 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:59:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA24589 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:49:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Francis R Bridge Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 02 Feb 2000 18:22:10 -0600 Organization: Motorola CIG Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cangel@famvid.com writes: The most recent citations were not made by Frank da Cruz, they were made by me, Frank Bridge. > FD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc > > FD>> On 1900-01-25 jrd@cc.usu.edu(JoeDoupnik) said: > > FD>> JD>>JRD> 486 and Pentium motherboards are basically free > FD>> JD>>JRD> for the asking... > > FD>> You see Michel said this was not an option and was > FD>> ignored. The folklore of free `486s is probably true if > FD>> you work in academia where they get new equipment for free > FD>> or in the government where they place no value on what > FD>> they no longer require. For the rest of us even scrap > FD>> metal has a price tag. > > FD> No need to work for the government or academia. Try any of > FD> the *. forsale groups - many people are selling 486's for > FD> less than $30 or giving them away outright. Even for > FD> someone earning the minimum wage, the $30 would quickly > FD> repay itself in reduced boot time and sanity over a 8088. > > You completely ignored that it was not an option. This is > probably the third or fourth time it has been ignored. > > I made the mistake of mentioning money and gave you an > alternate subject to discuss. I realize it was a mistake. > > First they are free, then $30. At some point we will get to the > real-world price that anything useable is about $100. > > As for earning minimum wage you're assuming that the money is > the problem and choice has no value. There is the assumption > that because you enjoy newer systems _everybody_ does. Do you > have a friend who restores old automobiles and do you tell him > he should buy something newer? > > Most of the time this is fun for me and a few others who also > enjoy doing it the old-fashioned way. > > As for earning minimum wage, you probably don't think about it > often but I keep finding myself communicating via email with > shut-ins who are handicapped and cannot even earn minimum wage. > Their income is probably below minimum wage, I don't ask them. > > They know I won't knock their equipment or tell them to get > something better I guess? Who was knocking equipment? Are you saying that an XT is not obsolete? Well, I don't want to argue the definition, but saying a device is obsolete and knocking it are not the same thing. I attempted to offer options for those who cannot afford a recent machine. You implied that the only way to get free material is if you work of academia or the government. I simply stated that that is not true and gave you an avenue to pursue cheap or *FREE* material that is more recent than what someone may be using. > > FD> If one still can't manage the cost, then politely ask on > FD> one of those newsgroups for a machine as a donation and you > FD> will likely get one. Myself and others have disposed of > FD> several obsolete machines that way. > > Yes, Frank, you can throw away what those earning minimum wage > cannot purchase. I'm happy for you. Please read my post, Charles. I made no such statement or implication. -Frank (Bridge, not da Cruz) From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 3 16:59:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03695 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:59:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA24784 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:37:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: TCP time limit in MSKermit? Message-ID: Date: 3 Feb 00 14:08:48 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <87cist$5l6$1@sylvester.vcn.bc.ca>, David Stow writes: > Is there a preset limit to how long Kermit will keep a TCP > connection open? I want to link two computers with Arcnet cards > running DOS, LSL, SMCARCWS (MLID), and MSK 3.15. I gave node 1 the > arbitrary IP address of 123.123.123.123 (the machines are connected > only to each other) and node 2 the address 123.123.123.124, and set > node 2's port to TCP/IP * . I typed CONNECT, then set node 1's port > to TCP/IP 123.123.123.124 and instructed it to CONNECT as well. > Node 1 showed me this rejection letter from Node 2. There is no time limit for a connection to persist. No SET anything has any effect on TCP timing material. Note that DHCP attempts should NOT be used because there is no DHCP server. Give the usual TCP/IP information about own IP, subnet mask, gateway, nameservers for normal connections. In your case there is no nameserver and no gateway, so leave them empty. The TCP RST is received from the other side, which did TCP_ABORT and that happens only if things are so very very slow that the machine has given up hope of communicating (required response was delayed far far too long). We can see very long times from the TCP Debug information. The time= item is the number of Bios clock ticks (18.2/sec) since network comms were started, rtt= is the round trip time in Bios clock ticks, and rto= is the timeout in Bios clock ticks. Your values are big for a two station hookup, suggesting that the ARCnet link is not working well. Joe D. -------------- > Resolving address of host 123.123.123.124 ... > > ARP request sent. Sender_IP=123.123.123.123, Target_IP=123.123.123.123 > Sender_MAC=01 > ARP request sent. Sender_IP=123.123.123.123, Target_IP=123.123.123.123 > Sender_MAC=01 > ARP request sent. Sender_IP=123.123.123.123, Target_IP=123.123.123.124 > Sender_MAC=01 > ARP reply received. Sender_IP=123.123.123.124, Target_IP=123.123.123.123 > Sender_MAC=02 > ARP request received. Sender_IP=123.123.123.124, Target_IP=123.123.123.123 > Sender_MAC=02 ARP R > Welcome to the MS-DOS Kermit Telnet server at [123.123.123.124]. > You are talking to the terminal emulator, > adjust local echoing accordingly. > Opt send will ttype > Opt send will naws > Opt send do sga > time=29 rtt=2 avg=0 std_dev=3 rto=13 > time=29 rtt=0 avg=0 std_dev=2 rto=11 > Opt recv will sga > RST received. Connection refused by host > > Node 2 waited only a few seconds before aborting, even though I > had SET TIMERs OFF on both computers. Its screen read: > > Operating as a Telnet server. Waiting... > ARP request received. Sender_IP=123.123.123.123, Target_IP=123.123.123.124 > Sender_MAC=01 ARP Request is for our IP; replying. > LISTEN > > ARP request sent. Sender_IP=123.123.123.124, Target_IP=123.123.123.123 > Sender_MAC=02 > ARP reply received. Sender_IP=123.123.123.123, Target_IP=123.123.123.124 > Sender_MAC=01time=25137 rtt=2 avg=0 std_dev=2 rto=8 > SYN_RECVD > > Connection starting from [123.123.123.123]. > time=25145 rtt=2 avg=0 std_dev=3 rto=13 > Opt recv will ttype > Opt recv will naws > Opt recv do sga > Opt send will sga > time=25165 rtt=3 avg=0 std_dev=5 rto=21 > TCP_ABORT > > > Any advice about how to avoid this snub would be welcome. From news@columbia.edu Thu Feb 3 18:59:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27744 for ; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01208 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 18:42:03 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Case Study #18: File Timestamps and Permissions Date: 3 Feb 2000 23:42:02 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87d3oa$15l$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Ever since the late 1980s, the popular Kermit programs have been able to send a file's timestamp along with the file, allowing the receiver to give the incoming file the same timestamp as the original. This is not just a frill. It can also be a useful feature when used in conjunction with SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE. In case you didn't know about this feature (which is not new at all), suppose you have MS-DOS Kermit or Kermit 95 on a PC connected to a UNIX or VMS system that has C-Kermit. And suppose you have a directory on the PC containing many files that you work on each day, and you want to back them up periodically to the UNIX or VMS system (whose file system, in turn, is backed up to tape for disaster recovery). Obviously you could send all the files every day, but if your connection is slow and/or the files are large and/or many, this could be tedious and wasteful. So just tell the Kermit receiver to: SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE This means: if a file arrives that has the same name as an existing file, the receiver is to refuse the incoming file if its timestamp is not newer the existing file's. So now if your "send *.*" command matches 200 files, you don't have to bother about which ones were changed and which were not; only the ones that were changed are transferred, the rest are skipped automatically. C-Kermit 7.0 also transmits a new piece of information about each file: its "protection code" or "permissions". This is mainly the solve the annoying problem in which execute permission was lost when transferring from Unix to Unix. Now if you use two copies of C-Kermit to transfer a Unix executable from one Unix system to another, you no longer have to "chmod +x" the result before you can run it. This new feature works across platforms too; for example, between Unix and VMS. If you use C-Kermit 7.0 to send a UNIX executable to VMS and from VMS back to another Unix system, it keeps its execute permission every step of the way. Preservation of timestamps and permissions is another feature you won't find in other cross-platform data transfer protocols like FTP. When combined with Kermit's new automatic per-file text/binary-mode switching and recursive directory traversal capability, you can produce a remarkable facsimile of a directory tree and all its files from one computer to another, even if they are different operating systems (but obviously permissions are lost if one of the OS's -- e.g. DOS or Windows -- does not have a file system that supports them). Combine all of this with SET FILE COLLISION UPDATE, and you have the classic incremental backup. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 4 09:00:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00343 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:00:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA02432 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 08:35:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "Kevin Traub" Subject: How do I set carrier-watch off in env or param file? (C-kermit 7 & linux csh) Message-ID: <4yAm4.6$Qb.2185@news> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 13:32:48 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Can anyone tell me how I can set the carrier-watch off in C-kermit 7 in either an csh enviromnet variable of in a param file which kermit will read upon initialization? I'm in a real bind and cannot change the cable to set the CD on. Please help... Thanks; Kevin traub From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 4 09:30:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05497 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA04246 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:19:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: How do I set carrier-watch off in env or param file? (C-kermit 7 & linux csh) Date: 4 Feb 2000 14:19:57 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87en6d$44j$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <4yAm4.6$Qb.2185@news>, Kevin Traub wrote: : Can anyone tell me how I can set the carrier-watch off in C-kermit 7 in : either an csh enviromnet variable of in a param file which kermit will read : upon initialization? I'm in a real bind and cannot change the cable to set : the CD on. : ~/.kermrc is the initialization file. Put any C-Kermit commands in it you want to be executed every time C-Kermit starts. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 4 11:00:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24747 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:00:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA08404 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:39:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Last call for C-Kermit 7.0 AIX binaries Date: 4 Feb 2000 15:39:08 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87erqs$86h$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu C-Kermit 7.0 was announced here at the beginning of January: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html We hope to be cutting the C-Kermit 7.0 CDROM very soon. The CDROM contains source code and as many prebuilt binaries and install packages as possible, of which we have about 250 so far. But there are still some holes in the AIX area. Most importantly, we need a binary with AIXLink X.25 included. The code was written for this during the development cycle, was tested, and works. But the guy who did the work lost his access to the development system before the final release. It seems a shame to have all this wonderful code that can't be compiled. Maybe somebody from IBM can do it? Second, we like to have binaries for each AIX release, since this tends to get us around release-related incompatibilities (even though there shouldn't be any :-) Here's what we have and what we need. The ones marked with "+" on the left are current; those without the "+" (or not listed at all) are needed: + cku196.ps2aixnetc-1.2.1 IBM PS/2 AIX 1.2.1 cku192.rtaixc-2.2.1 IBM RT PC AIX 2.2.1 cku192.rs6000c-3.1.5 IBM RS/6000 AIX 3.1.5 + cku196.rs6aix32c-3.2.0 IBM RS/6000 AIX 3.2.0 cku192.rs6aix32c-3.2.2 IBM RS/6000 AIX 3.2.2 cku190.rs6aix32c-3.2.4 IBM RS/6000 AIX 3.2.4 + cku196.aix41-4.1.3 IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.1.3 cku192.rs6aix41c-4.1.4 IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.1.4 cku192.rs6aix41c-4.2 IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.2 cku195b07.aix42-4.2.1 IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.2.1 cku195b04.aix43-4.3.0 IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.3.0 + cku196.aix43-4.3.1 IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.3.1 + cku196.aix43-4.3.2 IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.3.2 + cku196.aix43-4.3.3 IBM RS/6000 AIX 4.3.3 Some that are not listed include: IBM RT PC, any OS (AOS, ACIS, 4.xBSD) IBM AS/400, AIX (any version) IBM RS/6000, AIX 3.0, 3.2.5, 4.2.x IBM 370 or 390 Series Mainframe, UTS (any version) IBM 370 or 390 Series Mainframe, IX/370 (any version) IBM 370 or 390 Series Mainframe, AIX/370 (any version) IBM 370 or 390 Series Mainframe, AIX/ESA (any version) (We do, however, have one for Linux/S390!) If you can build C programs on or for any these platforms and would be willing to contribute a binary to the "digital archive", please let me know. Thanks! - Frank From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 4 15:00:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14563 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 15:00:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21203 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:43:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 19:43:34 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-02 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: FD>Charles, please attribute quotes to the people who made them. That FD>wasn't me. Yes, and I didn't say it was you either. I said `Frank' which is his name btw. The initials were probably out of habit (my software selects them as lowercase and I retype them in uppercase. My reference to those with impairments was in reference to their limited income not a reference to you or your software. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 4 15:00:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14566 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 15:00:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21208 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:43:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 19:43:36 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-02 bridge@cig.mot.com said: --8<--cut FB>> FD>> You see Michel said this was not an option and was FB>> FD>> ignored. --8<--cut FB> Who was knocking equipment? Are you saying that an XT is not FB> obsolete? Michel's msgs and my own are written on and transmitted from XT machines. Are _you_ saying XTs _are_ obsolete? FB> Well, I don't want to argue the definition, but saying a FB> device is obsolete and knocking it are not the same thing. Right and monkeys fly out of my ... FB> I simply stated that that FB> is not true and gave you an avenue to pursue cheap or *FREE* FB> material that is more recent than what someone may be using. Can you not read and interpret English? "IT IS NOT AN OPTION" FB> > Yes, Frank, you can throw away what those earning minimum FB> > wage cannot purchase. I'm happy for you. FB> Please read my post, Charles. I made no such statement or FB> implication. Frank, I don't believe a word you say. From news@columbia.edu Fri Feb 4 19:30:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09268 for ; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:30:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA04776 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 4 Feb 2000 19:02:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Francis R Bridge Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 04 Feb 2000 17:48:07 -0600 Organization: Motorola CIG Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu cangel@famvid.com writes: > On 2000-02-02 bridge@cig.mot.com said: > > --8<--cut > > FB>> FD>> You see Michel said this was not an option and was > FB>> FD>> ignored. > > --8<--cut > > FB> Who was knocking equipment? Are you saying that an XT is not > FB> obsolete? > > Michel's msgs and my own are written on and transmitted from XT > machines. Are _you_ saying XTs _are_ obsolete? Yes, they are. That does not mean they are not usable. A Ford Model T is obsolete but people are still passionate about them and maybe even using them to get around. Fine. A different example is in telephone infrastructure equipment. The Lucent 5ESS switch has been around 25 years. In that time, many generations of ICs have come and gone. The switch is being built today with many obsolete ICs that were lifetime bought years ago. Those ICs, and the products they go into, are still quite usable. You are probably using one to post your news. But those ICs are quite obsolete and should not be used in a new design. But I have an XT as well. I enjoy the nostalgia; the 4 minute boot time, low level formatting the 5 MB MFM drive once a year, feeling the table shake as the drive seeks, etc. And it is still quite an effective terminal with a Hercules card and Kermit. > > FB> Well, I don't want to argue the definition, but saying a > FB> device is obsolete and knocking it are not the same thing. > > Right and monkeys fly out of my ... I don't want to know what you place in your ... > > FB> I simply stated that that > FB> is not true and gave you an avenue to pursue cheap or *FREE* > FB> material that is more recent than what someone may be using. > > Can you not read and interpret English? "IT IS NOT AN OPTION" Yes, English is my native language; is it yours? My response, which you have gone out of your way to ignore and misinterpret, was to your statement that you had to work in the government or academia to get free computers. I disagreed and stated why and provided options for people to obtain them if they wish. If it is "not an option" for you FINE. But it very well may be for others and makes your statement about needing to work in the government or academia no less a fallacy. > > FB> > Yes, Frank, you can throw away what those earning minimum > FB> > wage cannot purchase. I'm happy for you. > > FB> Please read my post, Charles. I made no such statement or > FB> implication. > > Frank, I don't believe a word you say. Why is that Charles? Just what have I lied about? -Frank From news@columbia.edu Sat Feb 5 04:00:24 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA20399 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 04:00:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA28140 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 03:53:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: el@lisse.na (Eberhard W Lisse) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities Date: 5 Feb 2000 08:37:49 GMT Organization: Krankenhaus Neunkirchen Message-ID: <8ED162054ellissena@news.rmi.de> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu This whole thread is one of the weirdest I have read in ages. But it is similar to the sendmail debates started on occasion by some newbies. I for one have been fortunate to have access to kermit from the early eighties, when there was no networking whatsoever happening in Europe. And since the late nineties I have been very fortunate to have access to kermit while working in rural Africa as a medical practitioner. Even now, while on post graduate study leave back in Germany I keep a copy of kermit on all my machines, mainly linux by the way. It´s free, it´s faster than my neighbour´s dog and it works. Enjoy it and be thankful for the work that People like Frank, Jeffrey and Joe have been putting into it for more than 15 years. el From news@columbia.edu Sat Feb 5 17:30:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA14151 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:30:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA13673 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:22:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jmhill@ece.wpi.edu (Jonathan M Hill) Subject: Sending ASCII text Date: 5 Feb 2000 22:13:27 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Message-ID: <87i7a7$gno$1@bigboote.WPI.EDU> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hello; I am using the MS-DOS version of kermite along with an embedded system project that I am working on. I think I have version 3.14. Among other things, I am using kermite to dump an ASCII hex file through the PC's COM2 serial port to my embedded system. To send the file I am using the "transmit" command. The problem that I am having with kermite is that when I use the transmit command, it sends one line of ASCII text and stops, waiting for me to strike the return key before it sends the next line. I'd like kermite to send an entire file of ASCII text, only stopping if it receives XOFF, and resuming with XON. I noticed there options for "set transmit" and tried the following, "set transmit prompt 0" but saw no change in the behavior. I'd like to make any change that I make permanent in the mscustom.ini file. Any comments would be appreciated. Jonathan Hill jmhill@ece.wpi.edu From news@columbia.edu Sat Feb 5 18:00:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20846 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 18:00:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA15155 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 17:51:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jmhill@ece.wpi.edu (Jonathan M Hill) Subject: Re: Sending ASCII text Date: 5 Feb 2000 22:35:14 GMT Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute Message-ID: <87i8j2$gno$2@bigboote.WPI.EDU> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hello; Thanks so much to Frank da Cruz, it looks like I am set for now. The MS-DOS version of kermite requires a slash so that the commands to set flow control and to remove prompting is... > SET FLOW XON/XOFF > SET TRANSMIT PROMPT \0 Thanks to all the people who support kermit and kermite. Jonathan Hill jmhill@ece.wpi.edu Jonathan M Hill (jmhill@ece.wpi.edu) wrote: : Hello; : : I am using the MS-DOS version of kermite along with an embedded system : project that I am working on. I think I have version 3.14. Among other : things, I am using kermite to dump an ASCII hex file through the PC's COM2 : serial port to my embedded system. To send the file I am using the "transmit" : command. : : The problem that I am having with kermite is that when I use the transmit : command, it sends one line of ASCII text and stops, waiting for me to strike : the return key before it sends the next line. I'd like kermite to send an : entire file of ASCII text, only stopping if it receives XOFF, and resuming : with XON. : : I noticed there options for "set transmit" and tried the following, : "set transmit prompt 0" but saw no change in the behavior. I'd like to make : any change that I make permanent in the mscustom.ini file. Any comments : would be appreciated. : Jonathan Hill : jmhill@ece.wpi.edu From news@columbia.edu Sat Feb 5 20:00:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA10399 for ; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:00:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA20959 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 19:59:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <020500194616not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:59:31 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi Frank, Francis and all the captains Kermit around, About "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities" of February: FDC> Even for someone earning the minimum wage, the $30 would quickly FDC> repay itself in reduced boot time and sanity over a 8088. CA> You completely ignored that it was not an option. This is probably CA> the third or fourth time it has been ignored. ...you're assuming CA> that the money is the problem and choice has no value. Charles is right: i never wanted to discuss money problems! Instead of that, MY CHOICES WERE STATED CLEARLY - FROM THE BEGINING... We are very well aware of what `MS-Kermit' DOES on a "legacy" machine because WE ARE USERS and we both made numerous testings. I PRE-ESTABLISHED THE GROUNDS FOR THE DISCUSSION I WAS SEEKING FOR and it has been DISREGARDED in such a way that left no room for erroneous perceptions: a person who doesn't understand an other's person topic would simply ask questions but that's not what i seen. What i observed was supposedly "busy" people who acted as if i hadn't pointed them out at the topic i wished to focus on. "The Team" members are INCAPABLE OF RECOGNIZING THAT THEY FAILED OUTRAGEOUSLY in DISRESPECTING a most BASIC & REPEATED request: that to upgrade ISN'T considered AN OPTION... Trully, that's the very point where the fallacy begins. The sole interrest centered on turning my topics into something else, which is quite despicable when you know that i'm a user who simply tried to share with others. Even more despicable is the quick judgment in vertue of which i was designated as being a confused "genius", in one of those contexts where it's crystal clear that this is no compliment... Think of it: if i am to consider any hardware upgrade it's quite simple to pick up a `Win' box and load `ZMoDem' capable ~TelNet~ applications, to my hearts content, and with very little imagination being required!!! Imagination, it's all that is necessary to realize that a 8088/8086 can be a severe "test bench" for revealing the programs which have been best put together... Maybe, it might also bring into view an original way to go back in time and see the real extent of what MIGHT have been done on a modest `PC-XT' - more than a decade ago - should the programing effort have been agreed upon in time to match the hardware at hand... Maybe, i am just trying to locate the perfect application for a friend who's tiny ~PalTop~ will connect happily to a pocket MoDem... Why is my motivation supposed to be important to people who can't care less about the rest?!? That's IRRELEVANT here since i've set the parameters, *REPEATEDLY*! :-7 [...] Instead of a short & clear answer which would have allowed me to quickly move out, in search for another ~NG~, i landed in a place where the guys find satisfaction into an unprovoked, mocking, twisted mind game against some legacy USERS! Amazing how the hole team - or team of holes, euh... Well, the team clearly won't see a need for introspection, put aside the professor who briefly expressed some regret for having to say "No"... I am confident that some readers weren't rendered "confused" by the recent effort of diversion: in a way, a couple harsh words like "ass-holes" or "shit-heads" can't be any worst than a selection of "little strategies". It is easy to allege that a user is making fallacies, Frank, but it will not erase your own faults... Charles has proven to be CURIOUS and tried to HELP me - YOU HAVEN'T, especially you, Frank. You took great care in order not to ever pay attention to my basic intention but everything you want the audience to believe about Charles i saw it coming from the team while the uncalled hostility rapidly took form, in between the lines, in a much clearer fashion, at occasions... You people just seem to love it when things start to heat up and you enjoy pushing it toward the edge. Can't you just write a 2 sentences reply like the following (how come?): ******************************************[ Hypothetical mode enabled ]* No, the `MS-Kermit' team isn't and -=* WON'T *=- make any plans for the addition of other file transfer protocols like `ZMoDem' to its terminal emulator. Also, the source-code currently available is for v3.15 ONLY. *****************************************[ Hypothetical mode disabled ]* Three lines, Frank. That's all i'd require as an answer. No frill$!... Also, the same is valid for professor Doupnik and his followers!... %-7 FDC> As you might know, the Kermit Project has always made a point of FDC> producing accessible software compatible with low-end equipment... FDC> We serve, and have always served... Your quarrel is not with us, FDC> it's with the BBSs that don't install a decent Kermit... It's not FDC> our job to make Zmodem work better. You'd deny that the BBS world won't just thrive on the `Kermit' protocol alone, even if you were the only users on earth! By the time you people are trying to justify your kind of "magical thought" concept, nothing is actually done to resolve the issue. In the meantime, you will disregard any real-life information a BBSer can bring to your attention and still expect SysOps to readily invest a great deal of time to install `Kermit' (even if they already juged that `ZMoDem' does fine!). That's a foolish idea when USERS who are caught in the middle ARE ASKED TO ADAPT - IN THE VERY SAME WAY THAT YOU'VE BEEN INSISTING THAT THEY DO, YOURSELF... Your quarrel is not with us, it is with the author of `ZMoDem' or whatever it is (i don't care)! Oh, and those disabled people, about who you pretend to show concern, they probably happen to be amongst those for who BBSing makes the most sense since it is text-mode based, in essence. Keep your display of a caring attitude for somebody else, Frank! I don't buy it: the `MS-Kermit' users are cut out from a great deal of the BBS world but you don't look like you're aware of it; i bet you don't lurk around... At the very least, have the decency to leave the disabled out of this!!! >:-7 Why the fuss? 'cause "legacy" and/or "ZMoDem" taboo words were written? That's bizarre! Almost as bizarre as the fact that `MS-Kermit' DID rely on `TCPPort', from the `WatTCP' -=BLOB=- something ~TCP~/~IP~ stack, but you didn't seem to remember depending on it for `Kermit's ~TelNet~ port! Hey? 8-o Talk about denying others access to the #25 ~IP~ port... %-7 The poor sod's "BLOB" line of topic sounds funny, seen under that light! FRB> Are you saying that an XT is not obsolete? I... ...gave you an FRB> avenue to pursue cheap or *FREE* material that is more recent... CA> Can you not read and interpret English? "IT IS NOT AN OPTION" FDC> If it is "not an option" for you FINE. But it very well may be for FDC> others and makes your statement about needing to work in the FDC> government or academia no less a fallacy. There is a saying that nobody is more blind than he who doesn't want to see. My very post of January 1 wasn't written in behalf of "others"!... I thought it was clearly put: upgrading I S N O O P T I O N !!! This NewsGroup is the most pathetic thing i've seen for months. I start with introducing myself and playing all cards at once, believing that it would help eventual correspondants to TUNE IN or FILTER OUT my posts, if wanted; instead of to-the-point replies, all i appear to get is a bunch of ill-focussed, mis-interpreted and fallacious expressions with a great deal of attitude and i'm supposed to agree with that... Well, arrogance has a name (many names i'd say)! It should suffice to review the ~NG~'s archive in a chronological order to see how a simple and innocent post i made became twisted to no end by "the team". *THAT* amazes me!... %-o Of course, "the team" may have forgot the basics: such as the "Editor's Notes" by Christine M. Gianone who wrote in `Kermit's News #4 of June 1990, in her quality of manager for development and distribution... :^o I was pointed to this very interresting reading, lately... I found it quite refreshing: ************************************************************************ CMG> What Are You Doing? If you have an interesting Kermit story to CMG> tell, please send it in. Even if you don't think it's interesting, CMG> we'd still like to know how you are using Kermit. Is it saving you CMG> money, time, aggravation? Is it making your life better in some CMG> small way? Let us know! There are three widespread misconceptions CMG> about Kermit. The first is that it is "just" a file transfer CMG> protocol that one finds implemented in commercial software packages CMG> like Crosstalk, Smartcom, etc, but it is not a software package CMG> itself. The second misconception is that Kermit software is CMG> academic, used only in universities. [...] ************************************************************************ Well, i'm using `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' as a ~TelNet~ terminal emulator. I visit some of the rare remote sites to support the same-name protocol thru it, including BSSes. I read/post into NewsGroups (this message is a real-life proof that i do!), and i would do the same with my ~E-Mail~ as well, were it not for an obtuse, single-minded set of idealists... :-7 I came to this NewsGroup in hope of finding other people like me. Only, the spirit isn't there anymore - it shows! Haven't i POLITELY submitted to this ~NG~ what i was doing, just like you frequently insisted that we do, Frank - as if we were the only ones who need to watch our ATTITUDE?! I didn't see any "Glad you let us know" kind of reply. Instead, it felt as if we were told: "Hey, don't bother... It's our way or nothing!"... Please, take note that i can't care less about the team. Let people do *their* things and keep yours for those who seem to appreciate, you will be rendering everybody an immense service by dispensing people of all the self-justifications, bold titles quoting & intimidation... twisted mind games, etc., etc., etc... %-o Oh, and should a member of the team come to a point where he needs to say "no" again, please: cut the crap! [...] To those who happen to be curious about what "the team" is not saying on `ZMoDem' over ~IP~, go check this ~URL~ and you'll see that there's no such thing as a 100 % black or a 100 % white world: ftp://ftp.kellygroup.com/pub/glink/glinkdos/GLDOS.ZIP (about 525 Kb) I couldn't find enough time to play extensively with `Glink for DOS', demonstrator release 6.1.5 (of February 1), but it clearly demonstrates, * ALREADY *, that `ZMoDem' in a ~TelNet~ session *IS* working and can be offered with `Kermit', SIDE-BY-SIDE, in the same DOS ~TelNet~ client!... Personnaly, i'm very confident that `MS-Kermit' would execute a `ZMoDem' algorythm roughly as well as it does a `Kermit' one. The very fact that `MS-Kermit' remains a SINGLE file transfer protocol terminal after about TWO DECADES is not the result of a lack in hardware ressources, it's a subjective choice and i'd say `GLink for DOS' tends to prove it WRONG. Some 20 years later, `Kermit' is still sulked at by the BBS community and now i think i can begin to see why! What's happening in reality is just the opposite!!! %-o No wonder we had to wait until a paying `Win 9x Kermit' ver$ion before a select group of `Kermit' users could access their prefered BBSes and have use of `ZMoDem' with it! At the moment, the poor "sod" (DOS) users can't do that and it appears they never will have the same chance (but who can possibly know?!?)... Go figure! :( [...] This salute goes to "The Team"/followers in a most appropriate language: Mmmeuhhh!... >8'b, Michel Samson ************************************************************************ * Peculiar bucolic scene: a cow comes to a stop, takes a break... * * lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness around its immense * * eyes and then... and then pinch your nose and run for your life! * * * * A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task force. * ************************************************************************ From news@columbia.edu Sun Feb 6 10:00:33 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13561 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:00:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA26957 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 09:51:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:48:23 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-04 bridge@cig.mot.com said: FB>> Michel's msgs and my own are written on and transmitted FB>> from XT machines. Are _you_ saying XTs _are_ obsolete? FB> Yes, they are. The only thing obsolete here is the attitude that I require your opinion of my equipment. --8<--cut FB> > Can you not read and interpret English? "IT IS NOT AN FB> > OPTION" --8<--cut FB> I disagreed and stated why and provided options for people FB> to obtain them if they wish. If you want to get on a soapbox don't use the pretense of doing it for `other people'. Post to all. When I begin by saying I don't want to change hardware who the hell are you to insist that I do? --8<--cut FB> and makes your statement about needing to work in the FB> government or academia no less a fallacy. Those who work in either place are cloistered into thinking it's that easy for everyone. I was not asking for your advice on finding other hardware. I specifically said this and you ignored me and went off on your own little fantasy. FB> > FB> > Yes, Frank, you can throw away what those earning FB> > FB> > minimum wage cannot purchase. I'm happy for you. FB> > FB> Please read my post, Charles. I made no such FB> > FB> statement or implication. Yes you did Frank and you know it. FB> > Frank, I don't believe a word you say. FB> Why is that Charles? Just what have I lied about? You totally disregard what I have said, reply to questions I did not ask, and lie about your intentions when doing this. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Sun Feb 6 13:30:35 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05488 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 13:30:34 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06169 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 13:04:41 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Date: 6 Feb 2000 18:04:40 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87kd3o$60m$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <020500194616not-2-disclose@the.net>, wrote: : Hi Frank, Francis and all the captains Kermit around, : : About "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities" of February: : : FDC> Even for someone earning the minimum wage, the $30 would quickly : FDC> repay itself in reduced boot time and sanity over a 8088. : Again, this is not a quote from me. I don't mind being excoriated for things I said, but this isn't one them. : FDC> As you might know, the Kermit Project has always made a point of : FDC> producing accessible software compatible with low-end equipment... : FDC> We serve, and have always served... Your quarrel is not with us, : FDC> it's with the BBSs that don't install a decent Kermit... It's not : FDC> our job to make Zmodem work better. : : You'd deny that the BBS world won't just thrive on the `Kermit' protocol : alone, even if you were the only users on earth! : You're still talking to the wrong people. MS-DOS Kermit: . Did not cost you a penny. . Runs on your PC/XT and original PC. . Includes a fast and reliable file transfer protocol. . Includes a TCP/IP stack that you like. . Does what it was designed to do. . Can be installed on BBSs by their proprietors, as we have invited them to do all along, and still invite them to do. However you should understand that their users have more influence over them than we do. . You have the source code and can modify it for your own purposes, as generations of Kermit software users have always done. If you make a modification that might be generally useful, you can send it back and it will be considered for incorporation into the base version. This applies even if you might not have the up-to-the-minute working code. It doesn't matter. : FDC> If it is "not an option" for you FINE. But it very well may be for : FDC> others and makes your statement about needing to work in the : FDC> government or academia no less a fallacy. : Again, this is not a quote from me. This newsgroup is an open forum, and a usually a productive one. You might or might not have some valid points, but try to remember that you have no right to make people work for you. You can ask them, you can offer them money, or employ any other technique of persuasion at your disposal, but in the end you have no right to their time and labor and therefore no reason to be angry if they can't attend to your demands. After all, we have thousands of users who ask us nicely for new features all the time. Our list of things to do stretches on into infinity. How we decide to prioritize these items is our business, I'm afraid, but in general we follow certain well-know principles of scheduling, such as these: . If it brings a greater benefit to a larger number of people, it has higher priority. . If it's quick, easy, and risk-free, it can often be "slipped in" ahead of its normal priority. . If somebody else does the work and sends it in, and it's easy to evaluate and verify and retrofit, and does not break anything else, it can usually be incorporated quickly. The final point applies in this case. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Sun Feb 6 21:30:39 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14729 for ; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:30:39 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA06595 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sun, 6 Feb 2000 21:29:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <020600211450not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 02:28:18 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi again Frank, About "MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of February 6: FRB> Even for someone earning the minimum wage, the $30 would quickly FRB> repay itself in reduced boot time and sanity over a 8088. FDC> ...this is not a quote from me. I don't know if you get paid for $tanding in front of your screen, nor if you get instant access to the message base... but one thing is sure: you're quick to protest about some misquoting; still, i can't expect to see a valid correction made by you. The quote goes to Francis R Bridge; you just found a flaw, congratulations! This mind game is now starting to give you benefits - unless i'm the trap and you're the mouse - how do you think you can ever be sure?... I wish you'd have put as much energy into writing the 3 lines long 2 sentences i've suggested that you should have posted has your first/LAST reply, at the very beginning of January: ******************************************[ Hypothetical mode enabled ]* No, the `MS-Kermit' team isn't and -=* WON'T *=- make any plans for the addition of other file transfer protocols like `ZMoDem' to its terminal emulator. Also, the source-code currently available is for v3.15 ONLY. *****************************************[ Hypothetical mode disabled ]* You see that negation "WON'T" concatenation of words??? It's never been written, in this context, in a CLEAR statement made by any member of the team... Since you'll let others plunge into message archives for you, i collected this pot-pourri of quotes, specially made for your attention: > ...no one at the present time is working to implement Zmodem in MS-DOS > Kermit. Zmodem isn't in the plans for MSK, sorry. ...the Zmodem > support in K95 is there because somebody donated... I have no plans > of touching zmodem file transfer material. Anybody who can read and gather some comprehension from that reading can see that NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT PLANS FOR THE FUTURE. Actually, the idea that the `Win 9x Kermit' version could have the `ZMoDem' protocol added because of a contributor implies just the opposite... The team has been offered numerous occasions for stating as to wether it was decided that *`ZMoDem' WON'T BE ADDED* or not!... :-7 Instead, all you will find by scanning the NewsGroup's archive is a subtle sign of hesitation from the team; at best, you can find evidence that a member of the team declared his intention of not doing the work himself - i'll let you find out who. PLANS FOR THE FUTURE. That's what i've been asking about for a while... Here's another pot-pourri collection of quotes i made to your atention: > The source for Zmodem is Omen Technogy. If you want to implement > Zmodem in MS-DOS Kermit be our guest. The source code is available. > Write your own Zmodem library to integrate with MS-DOS Kermit that > does not violate the copyright of Omen Technologies and donate it to > the Kermit Project. ...the MSK source code is now in hand and being > scrutinized for local embellishment. That's one reason we publish it. > You have sources, so please dig into them... Again, any person who will pay attention to this might gather some basic comprehension from it; only, that one is a little bit more ambiguous... This idea that users can "donate"/"contribute" has been around for some time. What was -= NEVER PUT IN WORDS =- is a clear answer to questions Charles & myself have asked at numerous occasions: does the team expect such "willing" users to "embellish" its 2 years, 4 months & 20some days old version of September 15, 1997... -OR- the latest 3 months & 20some days old Beta release of Octobre 14, 1999??? To add functionality to a program that's about 30 months older than the current available version is nothing like a small compromize; to me, it sounds more like a waste of time than any sort of "embellishment"!!! Scan all you want, you will find nothing to disprove the above but i suspect that you won't. In any case, prove me that's no fling flang for another mind game, if you care! [...BUT DO YOU CARE? YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE YOU DO!...] NOTHING HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT PLANS FOR THE FUTURE, NO CLEAR STATEMENTS CAN BE FOUND ABOUT THE `MS-KERMIT v3.16 BETA 8' SOURCE-CODE!... Are you interrested in CONTROVERSY only, like you shown you are in your very 1st reply to me, on January 1, when YOU CHOSE TO DISREGARD MY INTRODUCTION? No "big things" possible with a tiny program! Sure... AS IF YOU HAD NO CLUE TO TELL YOU WHAT I HAD BEEN DOING WITH `MS-KERMIT', ALREADY!!! %-7 MS> You'd deny that the BBS world won't just thrive on the `Kermit' ^ MS> protocol alone, even if you were the only users on earth! | FDC> You're still talking to the wrong people. MS-DOS Kermit... | [...Oh! Some fling flang ignored - see my last comment above!...] -' FDC> You have the source code and can modify it for your own purposes... FDC> If you make a modification that might be generally useful, you can FDC> send it back and it will be considered for incorporation... [...Now: the plat-of-resistance!...] FDC> This applies even if you might not have the up-to-the-minute FDC> working code. It doesn't matter. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ha! Ha! Ha! %*D)) Make me laugh, i think i earned it!!! %-o The wrong (`MS-Kermit') people, right!... Your insistance to come back at us and still not recognize that your team shown disrespect to people who 1st came to your ~NG~ in good faith only adds to the noise: it made me forget that it is the so-called "Kermit Project"! "Contribute" is a magic word, hey? But at the same time, you seem to have a very strange definition for what's next to "UP-TO-THE-MINUTE" source-code!... 8-o It's too hard for you to write a clear statement but you'll *volunteer* happily when it comes to writing "IT DOESN'T MATTER". It doesn't matter that the "up-to-the-minute" (`MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8') source-code would be available, according to you, but * I S IT A V A I L A B L E * ?! IS THE `MS-KERMIT v3.16 BETA 8' SOURCE-CODE AVAILABLE? How many degrees and diplomas do you need to gather before we get a direct reply to THAT? [...] FDC> ...you have no right to make people work for you. ...you have no FDC> right to their time and labor... Are you being equal to yourself today?! Well, take notice yourself that YOU HAVE NO RIGHT IN WRITING THAT I EVER DEMANDED PEOPLE TO WORK FOR ME! The program has qualities but the team insists that they ruin it all by adding a few stains. The team didn't earn the consideration the program did in my mind and if it makes you suffer because the program is FREE TO EVERYBODY, including ME, then suffer! I'll only enjoy this even more!!! Yours is a clear case of this "FALLACY", like what you started to allege Charles has been doing and now you're trying the same trick with me. To my relief, the records are set and you can try to fool us as long as you wish but IT WON'T CHANGE A THING TO THE CHAIN OF EVENTS. In this case, the *chain of events* is that i came to this forum with a proposition of my own and i honestly thought that it could be regarded as a thing which could be fun or interresting... Scan all you want, you won't be able to support your interpretation above. Instead, you'll find that the team's response was quite improper when you consider that the WORK and TIME are MINE in this case! The choice of irrelevant replies isn't my doing, you seem to believe that i've chosen to enter this long unproductive thread but i urge you to begin your own introspection because i know i've done everything in my power to clearly state my goals, before anything else! *THIS IS NOT AN OPTION* Remember? The reply was uncalled *PROVOCATION* and i have every reason to look angry. * YOU * are the one who's making me loose my time and the more it goes the more it looks like you expect me to work a little bit harder just to prove a point to this obtuse mind that you are! I invite you to look for my alleged demands in the ~NG~s archive - take note that i certainly won't try to track it for you. All you'll find is that i have a very low esteem of you (and the team), not because of your knowledge but because of the only thing i know from you: THE WAY YOU CHOOSE TO ACT THRU YOUR POSTS. Just like Charles suggested weeks ago: try your manners with somebody you encounter on the walkside if you dare!!! >:-7 Your actions is the only thing which can impress a person like me; there happens to be some kinds of show offs to which i am quite impervious, if you must know... Some other kinds, maybe worst. If you can't bear to see modest attemps from users who are trying to be innovative then i'd suggest that you place a warning in the distribution archive so that such users can be aware, from their very 1st encounter, that they should renounce to commit a similar sacrilege before they even think of it!... I'm verry sorry that i disfigured "your baby". You can be assured i'll never try to share a single "contribution" here again... I've tried nicely and now i'm outraged, got that? Try to impress me all you want with the thousands of users, the fact remains that i seen very little "constructive" scrutiny about the ~NG~-reader script which i have submited a month ago, on January 1... I wasn't asking for anybody to go in trance and bow before my achievement but i certainly wasn't expecting this "genius" mocking thing neither!!! I do know of another `MS-Kermit' user here; he too was looking for a remedy to the lack of `ZMoDem' and i was under the impression that he too didn't seem to appreciate the way "The Team" treated him... How do you like that for a "ME TOO" argument? 8-o [...Sorry for making mine that "ME TOO" which fits so well, Charles!...] ;-) [...] Now, if you are finished with making us waisting our time, tell us if it is possible to "embellish" `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8' IN A 2 LETTERS REPLY to this question: can we have the `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta 8' source-code? And, if you feel up to it, try to answer that one: to what condition??? Or maybe you do like controversy indeed - prove me i'm suspecting wrong! [...] To our readers, here's another *MISLEADING STATEMENT* that was posted in this NewsGroup lately (this is not really a surprize to me, though!): ************************************************************************ Performing Zmodem file transfers as an external add-on over a raw TCP/IP connection is possible; over Telnet it requires that there been a tight coupling between the Zmodem engine and the Telnet engine such that USING AN EXTERNAL PROCESS TO HANDLE THE ZMODEM WILL NOT WORK RELIABLY in the very environment which you wish to use it. |^^^^^^^^| ********************************************[ notice, "reliably"... ]*** An external DOS `ZMoDem' protocol won't work RELIABLY in a session going over ~TelNet~, hey?? Really?!? To my knowledge, `TCPPort.EXE' from the `WatTCP' package *IS* providing a connection over ~TelNet~ & ~TCP~/~IP~; i don't know in virtue of what prodige i was able to do it but a program like `GLink for DOS r6.1.5' *DID* allow me to *RELIABLY* DownLoad a file using the `ZMoDem' protocol! Those who wonder who's that quote from are refered to the ~NG~'s archive on Columbia's ~FTP~ site! 8-o I begin to feel like imitating Frank when it comes to pointing at quote sources so i guess that i'll let that chore to others than myself... %-7 In the meantime, no reaction was seen from "The Team" about the existing *PUBLIC DOMAIN* `ZMoDem' protocols and the suggestion that `MS-Kermit be rendered the equivalent of `TCPPort' (which it happily used, once upon a time...), euh... Well, go figure why that's not a good thing for "them" to consider a DISCUSSION on the EVENTUAL addition of a ~FOSSIL~ "socket" (if i may say so, to use the analogy), euh... to add the infamous taboo file transfer protocol: `ZMoDem'! (NO URGING *DEMAND* HERE)!... %-o Keep us posted, Frank! I have a hint that you will... [...] Michel Samson ************************************************************************ * Peculiar bucolic scene: a cow comes to a stop, takes a break... * * lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness around its immense * * eyes and then... and then pinch your nose and run for your life! * * * * A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task force. * ************************************************************************ From news@columbia.edu Mon Feb 7 09:00:44 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA02236 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:00:44 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA26139 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 08:46:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "anonymous" Subject: Re: Kermit Spec Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 19:23:59 +0800 Organization: Unconfigured Message-ID: <87mibs$8ij$1@news5.jaring.my> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi, anyone know where to get kermit protocol spec ? the newer version used by ms-kermit is better. I'm on my way developing kermit dll for ms-win95, however find fail to get the new spec, I only have incomplete old spec, which not working with any new kermit program I have. Thank in advance, prefer send me URL or sample pdf source or ascii source spec or code. Thank in advance Rgds Ng ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ abuse@ietf.com winboss@chillynet.com loopback@nosuchperson.com beatspammer@ifyoumeetone.org abuse@yahoo.com abuse@msn.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From news@columbia.edu Mon Feb 7 10:30:45 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19294 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00704 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:10:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Peter Easthope Subject: Questions about Kermit language programming Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 14:59:23 GMT Organization: gulfnet.pinc.com Message-ID: <87mmk8$kla$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Are questions about Kermit language programming allowed in this forum? Thanks, peter_easthope@gulfnet.pinc.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Mon Feb 7 10:30:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19296 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA00813 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:14:44 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Questions about Kermit language programming Date: 7 Feb 2000 15:14:43 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87mnh3$pa$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <87mmk8$kla$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Peter Easthope wrote: : Are questions about Kermit language : programming allowed in this forum? : Of course. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Feb 7 11:00:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25901 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:00:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01698 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 10:31:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Kermit Spec Date: 7 Feb 2000 15:31:01 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87mofl$1kt$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <87mibs$8ij$1@news5.jaring.my>, anonymous wrote: : : Hi, anyone know where to get kermit protocol spec ? the newer version used : by ms-kermit is better. : : I'm on my way developing kermit dll for ms-win95, however find fail to get : the new spec, I only have incomplete old spec, which not working with any : new kermit program I have. : To find out all about Kermit, visit the Kermit website: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ The Kermit protocol is documented in the book, "Kermit, A File Transfer Protocol": http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/manuals.html Updates to the protocol are found in the directory: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/e/ in the Kermit Digest archives, etc. You might also want to take a look at: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/sdk.html which explains why there is usually a better approach to embedding Kermit protocol in other applications than writing it yourself. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Mon Feb 7 11:30:46 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02210 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:30:46 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA03620 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:06:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Steve Manning Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:43:14 -0600 Message-ID: <389ee81d$0$1402@news.execpc.com> Organization: ExecPC Internet - Milwaukee, WI To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu not-2-disclose@the.net wrote: >> ...no one at the present time is working to implement Zmodem in MS-DOS >> Kermit. Zmodem isn't in the plans for MSK, sorry. ...the Zmodem >> support in K95 is there because somebody donated... I have no plans >> of touching zmodem file transfer material. > >Anybody who can read and gather some comprehension from that reading can >see that NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT PLANS FOR THE FUTURE. Obviously the plans being discussed in the post you quoted were plans for the past. I for one plan on investing in Microsoft upon their IPO. Anyone know when that was? What else do you plan for *but* the future?? C'mon Michel... cut it out... you're killing us out here!! Steve Manning Systems Administrator Mega Marts Inc. Milwaukee, WI USA manning@execpc.com From news@columbia.edu Mon Feb 7 12:30:48 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14856 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:30:47 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA07626 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:23:04 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fred smith Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Organization: None! Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:18:52 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu not-2-disclose@the.net wrote: I would have preferred to send this to you by private email, but you seem to be too impolite to use a real email address in your postings. So, I'm left with no choice but to post it to the world. I can sense that you're displeased. You've made that abundantly obvious by repeating yourself (and repeating yourself, and repeating yourself, and repeating yourself, and...). While I have no responsibility for the condition of kermit or the policies of its maintainers, I can appreciate that they will put in the things they want to and won't put in the things they don't want to. After all, it's THEIR software. You are, of course, welcome to request enhancements, and they are free to determine that they don't wish to do them. As has been pointed out you are free to do them yourself if you feel so strongly about it. But this ongoing, continuous, series of L O N G, abusive, and boring postings of yours is unnecessary. You're welcome to stop it at any time. I've not (yet) added you to my killfile, but if you keep it up I will. Please understand that while it's a free newsgroup, that you're NOT contributing anything useful to it by your ongong ravings. Please be a good social citizen and cut it out. If you really have a kermit need that's not being met you would be better advised to carry out a short concise, POLITE, and non-abusive email or telephone dialog with the kermit folks themselves. Perhaps waving money under their noses will get you what you want (after all, the project survives by selling its wares--no sales, no project). But please don't continue to dump all over them. It won't do anybody any good, including you. Thanks! Fred Smith If I get any rants/flames in reply it'll just get you added to my spam filter, so please don't. -- ---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us ---------------------------- "For him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy--to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen." ----------------------------- Jude 1:24,25 (niv) ----------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Mon Feb 7 13:30:49 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27385 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:30:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA09899 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:02:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: Kermit Spec Message-ID: Date: 7 Feb 00 10:46:20 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <87mibs$8ij$1@news5.jaring.my>, "anonymous" writes: > Hi, anyone know where to get kermit protocol spec ? the newer version used > by > ms-kermit is better. > > I'm on my way developing kermit dll for ms-win95, however find > fail to get the new spec, I only have incomplete old spec, which not working > with > any new kermit program I have. > > Thank in advance, ---------- Frank pointed you at the Kermit protocol specifications. I have no idea of what you are looking at for specs, but if they are correct then any two Kermits obeying old to new specs will interoperate correctly. That is by design of the protocol. Thus verify the specs you are looking at are correct and that your implemenation obeys them. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Mon Feb 7 15:00:50 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17041 for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 15:00:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA15462 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 7 Feb 2000 14:52:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: david@telecom.com Subject: cmsg cancel Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:51:40 +0100 Organization: realCash Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu By this advisory message, hweede@snafu.de recommends the local removal of a spam whose Breidbart index is 202. The above header does not state who has issued this message or the spam itself. DO NOT REPLY TO ANY OF THESE ADDRESSES. See report "perpetualincomec-02071951" in news.lists.filters. Subject was: Its true! $196.00 Per Hour From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 8 09:31:01 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29070 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:31:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09617 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:16:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Questions about Kermit language programming From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 14:16:14 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-07 peter_easthope@gulfnet.pinc.com said: pe>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc pe>Are questions about Kermit language pe>programming allowed in this forum? Last comment from the Kaptain Kermit squad was that they didn't have time to act as a consultant when macro code was posted here. Give it a shot, maybe they will maybe they won't. (hint: offer to buy the book). Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 8 09:31:01 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29100 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:31:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09681 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:19:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Kermit Spec From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 14:16:07 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-06 nwpeng@pc.jaring.my said: NP> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc NP> Hi, anyone know where to get kermit protocol spec ? the newer NP> version used by ms-kermit is better. Executes in a dos box in W9x too! NP> I'm on my way developing kermit dll for ms-win95, You will be competing with the existing K95 that is sold here. That's a bad thing. NP> however find NP> fail to get the new spec, I only have incomplete old spec, which NP> not working with any new kermit program I have. That's a surprise - not! NP> prefer send me URL or sample pdf source or ascii source spec or NP> code. The person you want to talk to is Joe Doupnik and you must ask very specific questions to get specific answers. The latest released MSKermit code is v315. Ask for the URL for MSK v315 source code and see what happens. 8) Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 8 09:31:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29112 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:31:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09692 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:19:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 14:16:10 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-06 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: --8<--cut FD> . Includes a TCP/IP stack that you like. A TCP/IP stack written by Eric Engelke whose own package WATTCP is now referred to in this forum as a `tranfer blob'. Nice going guys! --8<--cut FD> This newsgroup is an open forum, and a usually a productive one. And replies are generally vague or misleading. Productive? Hardly. FD> You might or might not have some valid points, but try to remember FD> that you have no right to make people work for you. You have used the work of others to create what you copyrighted more than anyone but Bill Gates. Your double standard is annoying. --8<--cut FD> If somebody else does the work and sends it in, and it's easy to FD> evaluate and verify and retrofit, and does not break anything else, FD> it can usually be incorporated quickly. Again you want others to do it for you. You sir have NO pride. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 8 09:31:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29119 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:31:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09614 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:16:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 14:16:20 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-07 not-2-disclose@the.net said: N2>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc --8<--cut N2>[...Sorry for making mine that "ME TOO" which fits so well, N2>Charles!...] --8<--cut No problem Michel, Kaptain Kermit annoys me too. I wanted to post the location of the MSK source for nwpeng (msg posted here) and discovered I have erased the URLs for that. Easy to understand why since these arrogant jerks give me gas. Could you posssibly reply to his request with the answer he needs (URLs) instead of Kaptain Kermit's "buy the book" and "read our HTML about our past glory" response? N2>******************************************************************** N2>* Peculiar bucolic scene: a cow comes to a stop, takes a N2>break... * * lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness N2>around its immense * * eyes and then... and then pinch your nose N2>and run for your life! * * N2>* * A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task N2>force. * N2>******************************************************************** Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Tue Feb 8 09:31:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29127 for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:31:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09697 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:19:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 14:16:12 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-07 manning@execpc.com said: SM> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc SM> not-2-disclose@the.net wrote: SM> >> ...no one at the present time is working to implement Zmodem in SM> >>MS-DOS Kermit. Zmodem isn't in the plans for MSK, sorry. ... SM> >>the Zmodem support in K95 is there because somebody donated... SM> >>I have no plans of touching zmodem file transfer material. SM> >Anybody who can read and gather some comprehension from that SM> >reading can see that NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT PLANS FOR THE FUTURE. SM> Obviously the plans being discussed in the post you quoted were SM> plans for the past. Kermit = The Past IMO SM> I for one plan on investing in Microsoft upon their IPO. Anyone SM> know when that was? Your an entrepeneur! Are you a slicer AND a dicer?! SM> What else do you plan for *but* the future?? A `Gumpism'? SM> C'mon Michel... cut it out... you're killing us out here!! I told the Kaptain Kermit boys they could be nice, they ignored me, now Michel is angry. BTW: Do we need to know your job title or does it tickle your scrotum to see it in print? Charles.Angelich Father of 6 Grandfather of 13 (my title) From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:09:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02990 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:09:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23080 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:47:43 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Connecting to Internet From: d.cox@sk.sympatico.ca Message-ID: <7Lho4.278$EM31.7077945@tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:47:47 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu How do you use Kermit to connect to the Internet from a PC? I have a PPP account. I am trying to connect with a 286 computer with MS-DOS 3.2 . David Cox Net-Tamer V 1.10 Beta - Test Drive From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:09:58 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02993 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:09:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02875 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:36:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: info@everythingimport.com Subject: V-Day @ EVERYTHING IMPORT 8455 Message-ID: <0Oso4.17735$QN6.24765@news.optonline.net> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:21:48 GMT Organization: Optimum Online To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu http://www.everythingimport.com Check out our amazing Valentines Day promotions at Everything Import. Everything you need....everything you want....everything you deserve. http://www.everythingimport.com tmobxdizyucmhqpgmbprqeutrltlerjxdy From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:09:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02996 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:09:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14709 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:20:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 Subject: K95; How do I change the color of the screen? Date: 12 Feb 2000 12:20:13 -0800 Organization: at home, in Oakland, California Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu When talking to Kermit itself, I get white on black, but when connected I get white on blue, and I'd like to have black on white. I've looked through the documentation, but can't locate this information. 73, doug From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:09:59 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02999 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:09:59 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00234 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:13:11 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet From: d.cox@sk.sympatico.ca Message-ID: Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:13:17 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I have downloaded Kermit. I can get to the logon prompt on the Internet. After I successfully log in, the screen fills with }}}},,dh and other characters. There seems to be some missing connection protocol. I will try to find the PPP-to-packet shim. Is this all that's needed? David Cox Net-Tamer V 1.10 Beta - Test Drive From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:00 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03002 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20884 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:25:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: John Valenti Subject: Re: Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 18:07:52 -0500 Organization: SLIR, MSU Message-ID: <950224430.268336201@news.msu.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Jeffrey Altman wrote: > .... > SET HOST /CONNECT pilot.msu.edu:105 /RAW > >is used I am connected and the query works as specified if the end of >line is LF and not CR. > Thanks, this sounds like what I need. I'll dig out my C-Kermit manual to remind myself how to send LF. Also thanks to Clarence & Mark for your suggestions! -jav From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:02 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03021 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13516 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:54:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: AIX 4.x UUCP lockfile directory? Date: 15 Feb 2000 00:54:30 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88a846$d6a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <38A8A0E1.F3D0118B@flash.net>, LAIX Software Consulting wrote: : I believe installing the fileset bos.compat.links creates symbolic links for : locations where files used to be in AIX 3.x to where they are located in : 4.x. I suspect it may include a link from /etc/locks to /var/spool/locks. : Thanks. I wonder why, then, AIX 4.3 ttylock() uses the AIX 3.x lockfile directory, which doesn't exist :-) - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03043 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03898 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:07:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Message-ID: <38A87C9F.73F74B5D@math.uiuc.edu> From: "Adam H. Lewenberg" Subject: Commercial file servers that support kermit? Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:07:27 -0600 Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I am looking for a server that would allow me to upload and download files using Kermit, preferably one running the Internet Kermit Service Daemon. This way, I could exchange files with others and make use of the power of Kermit (e.g., only upload new file/changed files, use secure transfer, etc). Does anyone know of any place that rents out disk space for this purpose (I would need ~5-10 M of space)? Thanks, A. Lewenberg adam@math.uiuc.edu From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:03 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03051 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05487 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:36:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 10 Feb 2000 18:36:45 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87v0ft$5bd$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : .. : None of this explains why you referred this user to the v314 : when there is a v315 and v316. : Because the version 3.14 ZIP file contains all the text files, in particularly NETWORKS\SETUP.DOC, which must be read by those who want to get TCP/IP working with MS-DOS Kermit. Version 3.15, as noted on the Website, is installed as an "overlay" over the 3.14 base. Ditto for 3.16. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03056 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03336 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:12:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 11 Feb 2000 18:12:20 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <881je4$384$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu d.cox@sk.sympatico.ca wrote: : I have downloaded Kermit. I can get to the logon prompt on the Internet. : After I successfully log in, the screen fills with }}}},,dh and other : characters. There seems to be some missing connection protocol. I will try : to find the PPP-to-packet shim. Is this all that's needed? : So it looks like it's not a shell account after all, but a PPP account. That is, PPP is started automatically on the far end as soon as you log in. So yes, you'll need a PPP driver on the PC end. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:04 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03061 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17785 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:03:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: vek@pharmnl.ohout.pharmapartners.nl (Villy Kruse) Subject: Re: AIX 4.x UUCP lockfile directory? Date: 14 Feb 2000 16:44:58 GMT Organization: UUNET-NL (http://www.nl.uu.net) Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 14 Feb 2000 14:39:06 GMT, Frank da Cruz wrote: > . Are all AIX 4.x's supposed to have /etc/locks? Is it supposed to > be a symlink? Is this symlink installed by default or do sysadmins > have to put it there? > /etc/locks and /var/locks are both installed as part of the package "bos.rte", that is, pretty basic component of AIX. This at least on 4.1 as well as 4.2. Use "lslpp -f bos.rte" to verify the list of installed files. Villy From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:05 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03064 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06217 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:07:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:21:36 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-09 d.cox@sk.sympatico.ca said: DC> How do you use Kermit to connect to the Internet from a PC? I have DC> a PPP account. I am trying to connect with a 286 computer with DC> MS-DOS 3.2 . If you read FIDO echos post the same question in DRDEBUG, ALTDOS, or INTERNET_USERS. FIDO Internet BBS > http://www.docsplace.org The version recommended is not the latest release and without a working packet driver (as yet unnamed) you won't get far. If you chose the wrong one it will be more difficult. Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:06 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03074 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA21491 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:59:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Clarence Dold Subject: Re: Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7 Date: 10 Feb 2000 02:49:34 GMT Organization: a2i network Message-ID: <87t8vu$lgo$1@samba.rahul.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Joe Doupnik wrote: : In article <950141817.1720873735@news.msu.edu>, John Valenti writes: :> I'm trying to move a script from K95 to C-kermit. :> The connection uses "telnet pilot.msu.edu:105" which works :> with K95 and C-kermit 6.1.193, but fails under 7.0 I got a "connection refused" from Solaris behind a firewall, running 7.0.196 Beta10. But just a bunch of "negotiating" dots ( I got bored after two rows ) from FreeBSD running 7.0.196 Beta10. -- --- Clarence A Dold - dold@email.rahul.net - Pope Valley & Napa CA. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:06 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03079 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26491 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:43:35 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: <9cnq4.46662$ox5.12236242@tw11.nn.bcandid.com> Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 01:38:13 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-14 jasantos@ultranet.com said: JS>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc --8<--cut JS>You are really good at finding things for other people to do. JS>Why don't you do something useful with your life? Any your contribution is this? --8<--cut JS>Since when do you know *anything* about the real world? I know enough to organize an archive site. That bothers you? > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03082 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28493 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:36:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Questions about Kermit language programming From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 19:36:09 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-08 thucdat1143@my-deja.com said: Thuc>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Thuc>Yes, buy the book. I have two copies of it, one at work and one at Thuc>home. Dat Does that give you TWO votes or make you twice as gullible? Thuc>> pe>Are questions about Kermit language Thuc>> pe>programming allowed in this forum? Thuc>> Last comment from the Kaptain Kermit squad was that they didn't Thuc>> have time to act as a consultant when macro code was posted here. Thuc>> Give it a shot, maybe they will maybe they won't. (hint: offer to Thuc>>buy the book). Charles.Angelich From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:07 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03085 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20609 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:34:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: PB with scrip Kermit programming Date: 16 Feb 2000 14:34:39 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88echv$k3u$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <88dt3b$h9d$1@wanadoo.fr>, AMT wrote: : who can tell me ho to customize the command file to execute the same : commands on n nodes on a network ? : : I work on an hp/ux 10.01 workstation : i want to make automatically a command on three nodes (for example). if the : second node is down or doesn't exists my script doesn't continue and the : third node is never treated. : You posted this same question yesterday (twice) and I answered. If you did not see the answer (but you do see this), please send email to: kermit-support@columbia.edu and we'll send you the answer again privately. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03088 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18310 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:13:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Kermit11 for PDP Date: 14 Feb 2000 17:13:10 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <889d36$hs3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <889a3t$ngg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : I have an old retired PDP1173 that I have resurrected to retrieve some : files from. I am trying to use Kermit on the PDP and Hyperterminal on : the PC to retrieve the files I want. The PDP has Kermit11 T3.60 that : was compiled for RSX11M/M+. I can use Win95's Hyperterminal to : connect to the PDP and run Kermit. However, I am unable to transfer : any files. Even though I use the send command within Kermit, no files : are sent. It appears that I do not have something setup correctly : within Kermit on the PDP. : Tell Kermit-11 to SET ATTRIBUTES OFF. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:08 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03096 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22480 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:20:14 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: thucdat1143@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Questions about Kermit language programming Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:12:57 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <87pmav$sgb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Yes, buy the book. I have two copies of it, one at work and one at home. Dat In article , cangel@famvid.com wrote: > > On 2000-02-07 peter_easthope@gulfnet.pinc.com said: > > pe>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc > > pe>Are questions about Kermit language > pe>programming allowed in this forum? > > Last comment from the Kaptain Kermit squad was that they didn't > have time to act as a consultant when macro code was posted here. > > Give it a shot, maybe they will maybe they won't. (hint: offer to buy > the book). > > Charles.Angelich > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03110 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:08 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25111 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:32:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Message-ID: Date: 9 Feb 00 11:25:15 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <7Lho4.278$EM31.7077945@tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca>, d.cox@sk.sympatico.ca writes: > How do you use Kermit to connect to the Internet from a PC? I have a PPP > account. I am trying to connect with a 286 computer with MS-DOS 3.2 . > > David Cox ---------- The installation bundle has documentation on using selected PPP drivers with MS-DOS Kermit. We do not support others, not because we are being picky but I don't know about them or they aren't suitable. So you can try them but on your own time. MS-DOS Kermit supports DHCP if that is the way your Internet provider supplies your IP information. Please do read the release information about MSK; that will hopefully answer most questions. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:09 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03128 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06442 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:14:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 9 Feb 2000 22:14:17 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87sorp$697$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : ... : The version recommended is not the latest release and without a working : packet driver (as yet unnamed) you won't get far. If you chose the wrong : one it will be more difficult. : When using PPP, a PPP driver is used instead of a packet driver, but it looks like a packet driver to the application. This is the world of "shims" in DOS networking. Sometimes you need two or three layers of them, but in this case just the one should suffice. The question is which one. Several are available and we've had conflicting reports about each one. So some trial and error is needed. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:10 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03133 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29759 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:17:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "AMT" Subject: pb with script programming, Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:41 +0100 Organization: AMT Message-ID: <88c1mo$o8c$1@wanadoo.fr> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu i wirk on an hp/ux 10.0 workstation I want to make the same commands to differents nodes of my network i have coded the script .. cat /etc/hosts | while read LIGNE do EQUIP= echo $LIGNE | awk '{print $2}'` CMDE="set host $EQUIP, take /filexx" kermit -c "$CMDE"; echo "AAAAA" done echo "BBBBB"" exit the filexx have def unix do vax, set term byte 7 set input timeout-action proceed ..... set exit warning off input 1 ok if success go to suit end :suit ... ... end when all the nodes are up it's ok, but when the node "n" is down i have the message : unable to connect to "n" connection time-out. i go back to my script and it execute echo AAAAA echo BBBBB and it ends. so i havent made my commands to the nodes n+1 n+2 ..... who can help me ? From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:10 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03136 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00621 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:21:23 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 9 Feb 2000 20:21:19 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87si7v$ja$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : I have downloaded Kermit. I can get to the logon prompt on the Internet. : After I successfully log in, the screen fills with }}}},,dh and other : characters. There seems to be some missing connection protocol. I will try : to find the PPP-to-packet shim. Is this all that's needed? : I think so. It sounds like you have made a direct dialup connection to the PPP server, which is sending PPP protocol messages to your screen. You need to put the a PPP driver between Kermit and the PPP server, and then use Kermit as a Telnet client once the PPP connection is established. The details depend on which PPP driver you have. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03139 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17724 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:01:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: cstevens11@my-deja.com Subject: Kermit11 for PDP Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:22:27 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <889a3t$ngg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I have an old retired PDP1173 that I have resurrected to retrieve some files from. I am trying to use Kermit on the PDP and Hyperterminal on the PC to retrieve the files I want. The PDP has Kermit11 T3.60 that was compiled for RSX11M/M+. I can use Win95's Hyperterminal to connect to the PDP and run Kermit. However, I am unable to transfer any files. Even though I use the send command within Kermit, no files are sent. It appears that I do not have something setup correctly within Kermit on the PDP. I can use this same Hyperterminal to connect to a uVax and can transfer files without any problems. Can someone provide suggestions as to how the Kermit parameters should be set? Thanks Craig Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03142 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23630 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 12:58:59 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 9 Feb 2000 17:58:58 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87s9t2$n2b$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <7Lho4.278$EM31.7077945@tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca>, wrote: : How do you use Kermit to connect to the Internet from a PC? I have a PPP : account. I am trying to connect with a 286 computer with MS-DOS 3.2 . : Visit: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html Make a KERMIT directory on your PC, download the MS-DOS Kermit 3.14 ZIP file into it, and "unzip -d" it into a KERMIT. If you don't have a way to do this, you can purchase MS-DOS Kermit on a diskette. Then read the instructions in NETWORKS\SETUP.DOC and take it from there. You will also need to find an appropriate PPP-to-packet-driver shim; that's not included in the ZIP file. Other readers will probably offer suggestions. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:11 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03145 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18087 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Sat, 12 Feb 2000 16:24:33 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: K95; How do I change the color of the screen? Date: 12 Feb 2000 21:24:31 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <884j2f$hl4$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 wrote: : When talking to Kermit itself, I get white on black, : but when connected I get white on blue, and I'd like to have black on : white. I've looked through the documentation, but can't locate this : information. : 73, doug In the dialer, use the Terminal Page to set the colors >From the K95 command line, use SET TERMINAL COLOR TERMINAL-SCREEN Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:12 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03148 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22065 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:36:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 11 Feb 2000 14:36:30 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <8816pe$lhe$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , David Cox wrote: : ... I would like to connect with the program ZIICS. It is an Internet : chess server program that doesn't work with a PPP connection. I was : trying to find out how Kermit connects so that I might find a way to : connect with ZIICS. It seems that ZIICS requires a 'shell connection'. : From what I can figure out, this is something to do with a Unix type : computer that connects to the Internet and allows ZIICS to work. : This probably means that you simply use Kermit to dial the Unix computer. In that case you don't need anything extra; you just use Kermit as it is; the Internet part is taken care of by the computer that you dialed, not by Kermit. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:12 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03151 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02258 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:50:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Mark Sapiro Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 11 Feb 2000 17:26:31 GMT Organization: Not Very Much Message-ID: <881go7$t1t$1@news.value.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu d.cox@sk.sympatico.ca wrote: : I have downloaded Kermit. I can get to the logon prompt on the Internet. : After I successfully log in, the screen fills with }}}},,dh and other : characters. There seems to be some missing connection protocol. I will try : to find the PPP-to-packet shim. Is this all that's needed? The screen filling with }}}}, etc. could be due to a speed mismatch somewhere (e.g. between Kermit and modem). The fact that you can successfully log in seems to contradict that, so it might also be a flow control problem. Make sure that your modem and Kermit (or the far-end and Kermit depending on the modem) are set for the same type of flow control and the same speed. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03154 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26973 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:26:51 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Mark Sapiro Subject: Re: Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7 Date: 11 Feb 2000 01:23:08 GMT Organization: Not Very Much Message-ID: <87vo9s$3qm$1@news.value.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu John Valenti wrote: : On Thu, 10 Feb 2000, Jeffrey Altman wrote: :> .... :> SET HOST /CONNECT pilot.msu.edu:105 /RAW :> :>is used I am connected and the query works as specified if the end of :>line is LF and not CR. :> : Thanks, this sounds like what I need. I'll dig out my C-Kermit : manual to remind myself how to send LF. LF is control-J on most keyboards, however I find the following sequence of commands seems to work fine, echos what I type and allows CR as a terminator. [C:\K95\] K-95> set host pilot.msu.edu:105 DNS Lookup... Trying 35.9.5.108... Reverse DNS Lookup... (OK) pilot.msu.edu connected on port 105 [C:\K95\] K-95> set local-echo on [C:\K95\] K-95> connect -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03157 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25344 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:10:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7 Message-ID: Date: 9 Feb 00 20:42:44 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <87t8vu$lgo$1@samba.rahul.net>, Clarence Dold writes: > Joe Doupnik wrote: > : In article <950141817.1720873735@news.msu.edu>, John Valenti writes: > :> I'm trying to move a script from K95 to C-kermit. > :> The connection uses "telnet pilot.msu.edu:105" which works > :> with K95 and C-kermit 6.1.193, but fails under 7.0 > > I got a "connection refused" from Solaris behind a firewall, running > 7.0.196 Beta10. > > > But just a bunch of "negotiating" dots ( I got bored after two rows ) from > FreeBSD running 7.0.196 Beta10. > -- > --- > Clarence A Dold - dold@email.rahul.net > - Pope Valley & Napa CA. --------- Another report from my place. UnixWare 7.0.1, telnet, fails to react once connected. UnixWare 7.0.1, CKermit 7.0.195 Beta.02, works fine, query works. FreeBSD v3.4, telnet, works fine, query works. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:13 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03160 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:13 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23674 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:53:26 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Installing Kermit Date: 10 Feb 2000 14:53:25 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87ujd5$n3n$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <87uhg6$amt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : Can anybody help, Please??!!! My first time working with Kermit and : I'm having a hard time. Here is my my makefile along with the : errors I'm getting. : You didn't really need to post the makefile. We have it here too. But then, the makefile you did post is incomplete, so all bets are off to begin with. I assume you are talking about C-Kermit 7.0. Which version of AIX do you have? Is it 4.3.0? 4.3.1? 4.3.2? ... The "oslevel" command (given at the shell prompt) will tell you. : (root): /home/mine/kermit> make aix43 : Making C-Kermit 7.0.196 for IBM AIX 4.3 or higher... : ... : collect2: ld returned 12 exit status : ld: 0711-781 ERROR: TOC overflow. TOC size: 70908 Maximum size: 65536 : Try this: Edit the makefile; find the aix43 target, change "-qmaxmem=8000" to "-qmaxmem=12000", and then type "make aix43" again. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03163 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13981 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:32:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: John Valenti Subject: Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 19:00:45 -0500 Organization: SLIR, MSU Message-ID: <950141817.1720873735@news.msu.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I'm trying to move a script from K95 to C-kermit. The connection uses "telnet pilot.msu.edu:105" which works with K95 and C-kermit 6.1.193, but fails under 7.0 I added some commands to "set telopt ... refused" for terminal-type, naws, new-environment and kermit. That helped, but the connection is still eventually refused, waiting for the "DO Kermit" response. I tried the /raw option, that didn't help. Using the /nowait option starts the connection, but then it acts weird a few minutes later. Do I need to use the "set telnet bug binary-me-means-u-too" options? I don't quite understand the manual information on those... =============== The port 105 option above connects to a CSO (directory) server. When it works, a command like "query name=aa" will return info about people with last names starting with aa. (Try it if you want) I would like to use 7.0 for the Kerbang scripts and command line arguments. Thanks for any help! From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:14 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03167 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:14 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01339 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:42:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "AMT" Subject: automatically run commands on differents IP nodes Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:09:28 +0100 Organization: AMT Message-ID: <88c0s3$n3h$1@wanadoo.fr> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I have a problem with c-Kermit i work on hp/UX 10.0 system i want to run commands on different nodes by the same script. in this script i have coded the command cat /etc/hosts | while read LIGNE do EQUIP=`ècho $LIGNE | awk '{print $1}' kermit -C set host $EQUIP, take filexx; echo "aaaa" done echo bbbb end filexx contains def unix do vax, set term byte 7 set input echo off set input silence 1 set input timeout-action proceed ... set exit warning off input 2 OK if success go to suit end :suit output {ATDS\13} ... end if the nodes where i want to execute the command are in the good state it's ok, it is good for all the nodes, but for example, if i can't connect the third node of the file, it's ok for the nodes 1 and 2, and i have the message "cant connect to $EQUIP , connection timed out" , i come back to my script but it stop the cat and make the echo of aaaa and bbbb and stop. thanks for your help ! i want to run comma From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:16 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03171 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02593 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:59:21 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: awouk@syzygy.nilenet.com (Arthur Wouk) Organization: NileNET, Ltd. Subject: a puzzle with regard to c-kermit Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 03:44:21 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu the situation: sun sparc2 running first c-kermit 6, and now c-kermit 7 (the latest release. (os is solaris2.4) diallin in to my ISP running then solaris2.4 on a sparc10, now solaris2.6 on a sparc20. used to have c-kermit6, now the latest release c-kermit7. because of problems (unknown), i have to run 'set prefix all' for the latest release to get binary transmission, previously this was not needed. this is NOT the problem. now the problem: downloads of both binary and ASCII files are no problem in both states. ASCII uploads are fine. binary uploads proceed for a while, not too long, say 10 or 15 kilobytes, and then the transmission hangs. this for both configurations. uuencoding the binary doesn't help. probably something goes wrong when some code which is not present in ASCII but is present in both binary and uuencoded binary appears. how do i trouble shoot this? -- "Money is property. It is not speech." Justice John Paul Stevens to send me email, remove 'syzygy.' from my address From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:17 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03175 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16935 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 03:34:28 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fred smith Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Organization: None! Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 02:26:53 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu not-2-disclose@the.net wrote: : Hello Fred, : About "Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of February 7: : FS> I would have preferred to send this to you by private email, but you : FS> seem to be too impolite to use a real email address... : Oh but you know what? Right from this single innocent sentence i wonder : if i'm not witnessing what sounds like the sprout of an abusive, boring, : badly mannered social citizen posting that's confused, etc... and which : has a great potential for a ranting and flaming correspondance suite!... This newsgroup is for discussing kermit, not for the ravings of a madman. P L O N K !!!!!!!! -- ---- Fred Smith -- fredex@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us ---------------------------- "For him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy--to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen." ----------------------------- Jude 1:24,25 (niv) ----------------------------- From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:17 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03181 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:17 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26395 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:54:31 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "Dale A. Dellutri" Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 9 Feb 2000 18:54:36 GMT Organization: EnterAct Corp. Message-ID: <87sd5c$1mb3$1@news.enteract.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 9 Feb 2000 17:58:58 GMT, Frank da Cruz wrote: > In article <7Lho4.278$EM31.7077945@tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca>, > wrote: > : How do you use Kermit to connect to the Internet from a PC? I have a PPP > : account. I am trying to connect with a 286 computer with MS-DOS 3.2 . >... > You will also need to find an appropriate PPP-to-packet-driver shim; that's > not included in the ZIP file. Other readers will probably offer suggestions. Are there any plans to include a basic PPP driver in C-Kermit itself? In other words, C-Kermit would not need any external software to establish a PPP connection (over dial-up), and then allow telnet or set host or whatever from within C-Kermit to establish a terminal session with a remote host. I'd like this capability in the VMS, UNIX and Windows version of C-Kermit. Note that C-Kermit would not have to "hand off" this PPP connection to any other program (though that would be a nice feature in those systems for which "hand off" is possible) -- it would be used solely for that C-Kermit session. Any plans for this? -- Dale Dellutri -- ddellutr@enteract.com From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03184 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10175 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:39:08 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: AIX 4.x UUCP lockfile directory? Date: 14 Feb 2000 14:39:06 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88942a$9ts$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In AIX, the preferred method for an application to obtain a lock on a dialout device is with the (AIX-specific) ttylock() API. This is supposed to shield the application from having to know the details about the lockfile location, name, and contents. But of course, we still have the same old silly scheme underneath. A user who recently installed C-Kermit 7.0, which uses ttylock() in the politically correct manner, complains it can't obtain a dialout device: "access to lock directory denied", even though Kermit's owner, group, and permissions are the same as cu; even when Kermit is run as root. (And no, they never tried to run cu.) It seems there is no /etc/locks on this computer. My questions are: . What is the lockfile directory used by ttylock() on AIX 4.x? It seems to be /etc/locks, but on the AIX systems I've seen, that's symlink to /var/locks. . Are all AIX 4.x's supposed to have /etc/locks? Is it supposed to be a symlink? Is this symlink installed by default or do sysadmins have to put it there? . If the real lockfile directory is /var/locks, why does ttylock() use /etc/locks? . Are there differences among AIX 4.1, 4.2, and 4.3? - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:18 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03187 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA17706 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 05:10:47 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "AMT" Subject: PB with scrip Kermit programming Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:17:25 +0100 Organization: AMT Message-ID: <88dt3b$h9d$1@wanadoo.fr> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu who can tell me ho to customize the command file to execute the same commands on n nodes on a network ? I work on an hp/ux 10.01 workstation i want to make automatically a command on three nodes (for example). if the second node is down or doesn't exists my script doesn't continue and the third node is never treated. #!/usr/bin/ksh cat /etc/hosts.6521 | while read LIGNE do EQUIP=`echo $LIGNE | awk '{print $2}'` CMDE="set host $EQUIP, take /softs/AMT/bin/mhker" kermit -C "$CMDE"; echo i have tested $LIGNE done the file mhker : def unix do vax, set term byte 7 set input echo off set input case ignore set input silence 1 set terminal autodownload on set terminal bytesize 7 set terminal character-set latin1-iso set terminal escape-character enabled set terminal height 25 set terminal width 80 set terminal echo remote set file collision rename set file type binary set transfer bell on set transfer character-set transparent set receive packet-length 94 set attributes on set window 1 set file type binary set telnet echo remote set exit warning off input 1 OK output {ATDS\13} input 1 OK output {\13} input 1 OK output {\13} input 1 OK output {12.5.2.y\13} input 1 OK exit thank you for your help From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03190 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:18 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17516 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:37:12 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 11 Feb 2000 22:37:10 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <8822um$h39$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : : This then begs the question "Por Qua"? : : Version 3.15 of MSKermit is _not_ a `beta' and it would seem logical to : put those other files into the v3.15 archive (we're talking 10 minutes of : someone's time?). Instead you want newcomers to download v3.14 and : somehow (?) realize they can download v3.15 and insert it in place of : v3.14 (delete the auto-patch references in the INI file) : The reason is that the documentation files: KERMIT.UPD, KERMIT.BWR, KERMIT.HLP, NETWORKS\SETUP.DOC, and so on, have not been updated to 3.15. Packaging them with the 3.15 software would give the false impression that they were current. Or to put it another way, 3.14 is still the most recent coherent and properly packaged release. We hope we can bring everything back into alignment when version 3.16 is released, but we can't promise it. It is one of many things we would like to do, but there are not enough people or time to do everything. However, most users agree it is better to have 3.15 and the 3.16 Betas available, even if not fully packaged, than not at all. Version 3.14 is available for those who prefer a coherent package. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03193 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08333 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:33:42 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 10 Feb 2000 19:33:40 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87v3qk$84a$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : FD> When using PPP, a PPP driver is used instead of a packet : FD> driver, but it looks like a packet driver to the : FD> application. : : Wrong. It looks like a packet driver because it is one. PPP or : CHAP or PAP or SLIP or CSLIP only involve logging into the ISP. : Ater this is _is_ a packet driver. : : FD> This is the world of "shims" in DOS networking. : : Or the world of API's and SOCKETS if Windows. So what? : : FD> Sometimes you need two or three layers of them, : : Name one. : : FD> but in this case just the one should suffice. : : Yes, it requires only one. : : FD> The question is which one. Several are available and we've : FD> had conflicting reports about each one. So some trial and : FD> error is needed. : : No it isn't. Some configuration is needed. : Charles, we appreciate your efforts to be helpful. If you would like to recommend a specific driver that this person can use on a PC/AT to provide PPP service in a way that Kermit can use, and discuss the specifics of the configuration, that would be most welcome. I'm quite sure you know more about this than we do. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:19 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03196 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:19 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15804 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:09:19 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7 Message-ID: Date: 9 Feb 00 17:58:00 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <950141817.1720873735@news.msu.edu>, John Valenti writes: > I'm trying to move a script from K95 to C-kermit. > The connection uses "telnet pilot.msu.edu:105" which works > with K95 and C-kermit 6.1.193, but fails under 7.0 > > I added some commands to "set telopt ... refused" for terminal-type, > naws, new-environment and kermit. That helped, but the connection > is still eventually refused, waiting for the "DO Kermit" response. > > I tried the /raw option, that didn't help. Using the /nowait option starts > the connection, but then it acts weird a few minutes later. > > Do I need to use the "set telnet bug binary-me-means-u-too" options? > I don't quite understand the manual information on those... > =============== > The port 105 option above connects to a CSO (directory) server. When > it works, a command like "query name=aa" will return info about people > with last names starting with aa. (Try it if you want) > > I would like to use 7.0 for the Kerbang scripts and command line > arguments. > > Thanks for any help! --------- For what it's worth dept. Using MS-DOS Kermit to that address works just fine. MSK does not offer Telnet options if the destination port is other than Telnet (23). I saw no Telnet options being offered by your server. The query name= part also worked fine. Joe D. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03199 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03503 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:14:56 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet From: d.cox@sk.sympatico.ca Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:22:26 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-11 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: >This probably means that you simply use Kermit to dial the Unix >computer. In that case you don't need anything extra; you just use >Kermit as it is; the Internet part is taken care of by the computer >that you dialed, not by Kermit. >- Frank Let me explain further what I am trying to do. I have a PPP connection to the Internet, which I dial into with my modem. I have the ZIICS program that works on a shell connection to a telnet server, to provide a graphical user interface for Internet chess. I would like to be able to get ZIICS to work on my PPP connection. As it is now ZIICS will dial up, log in and then can't work with the PPP protocol. I thought that Kermit was similar in this regard, so if I could figure out how Kermit managed to handle it , then maybe I could get ZIICS to work too. It seems that Kermit requires a PPP packet driver. I have download one. I can get it to dial into my Internet number and log in. It looks like the driver is communicating with my connection, but then I am returned to the Dos prompt. I can't get either Kermit or ZIICS to use this driver. In the documentation for ZIICS it says that one person connected to the Internet by using a virtual modem. I have downloaded this program, but it is for OS/2. I appreciate your replies. David Cox Net-Tamer V 1.10 Beta - Test Drive From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:20 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03202 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13409 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:51:32 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Message-ID: <38A8A0E1.F3D0118B@flash.net> From: LAIX Software Consulting Organization: LAIX Software Consulting Subject: Re: AIX 4.x UUCP lockfile directory? Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:45:47 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu I believe installing the fileset bos.compat.links creates symbolic links for locations where files used to be in AIX 3.x to where they are located in 4.x. I suspect it may include a link from /etc/locks to /var/spool/locks. Best regards, Paul Frank da Cruz wrote: > In AIX, the preferred method for an application to obtain a lock on a > dialout device is with the (AIX-specific) ttylock() API. This is > supposed to shield the application from having to know the details about > the lockfile location, name, and contents. But of course, we still have > the same old silly scheme underneath. > > A user who recently installed C-Kermit 7.0, which uses ttylock() in the > politically correct manner, complains it can't obtain a dialout device: > "access to lock directory denied", even though Kermit's owner, group, > and permissions are the same as cu; even when Kermit is run as root. > (And no, they never tried to run cu.) > > It seems there is no /etc/locks on this computer. My questions are: > > . What is the lockfile directory used by ttylock() on AIX 4.x? > It seems to be /etc/locks, but on the AIX systems I've seen, that's > symlink to /var/locks. > > . Are all AIX 4.x's supposed to have /etc/locks? Is it supposed to > be a symlink? Is this symlink installed by default or do sysadmins > have to put it there? > > . If the real lockfile directory is /var/locks, why does ttylock() > use /etc/locks? > > . Are there differences among AIX 4.1, 4.2, and 4.3? > > - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03205 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:20 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA05050 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:06:02 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: "David Cox" Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Message-ID: Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:00:26 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu >`FidoNet_Dos_Internet' area on November 25. I've shown him a batch-file >example that's meant to load `PPP.EXE' and set DOS environment variables >for use with the same `MSKermit.INI' file i use with `DR_Web-Spyder' and >`DOSPPPd'... The Klos archive *REQUIRES* `LSL.COM' which is included in >`DR_Web-Spyder' and discussed in my post to Jake. Take note that Klos's >DOS ~ODI~ stack does work better if you're lucky enough to have a ~FIFO~ >buffered (16550-type) ~UART~ on your serial-port, if that's not the case >then you better leave it alone!... ;-) The `AirPower' BBS message base >might be large enough to still hold a copy of my November 25 post. >Michel Samson > Wow! This is a lot of information. Glad to hear from you! I will try some of the things you suggested. The real reason I am trying to connect from an old 286 computer is just to try and make use of it in some way. I have the program Net-Tamer which allows me to connect to the Internet with it , but it doesn't allow me to connect with other programs. I would like to connect with the program ZIICS. It is an Internet chess server program that doesn't work with a PPP connection. I was trying to find out how Kermit connects so that I might find a way to connect with ZIICS. It seems that ZIICS requires a 'shell connection'. From what I can figure out, this is something to do with a Unix type computer that connects to the Internet and allows ZIICS to work. Just a past-time. Nothing important. Just the same, I will try to get it to work. David Cox From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:21 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03208 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03695 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:02:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 17:32:29 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-09 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: FD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc FD> In article , FD> wrote: CA> The version recommended is not the latest release and CA> without a working packet driver (as yet unnamed) you won't CA> get far. If you chose the wrong one it will be more CA> difficult. FD> When using PPP, a PPP driver is used instead of a packet FD> driver, but it looks like a packet driver to the FD> application. Wrong. It looks like a packet driver because it is one. PPP or CHAP or PAP or SLIP or CSLIP only involve logging into the ISP. Ater this is _is_ a packet driver. FD> This is the world of "shims" in DOS networking. Or the world of API's and SOCKETS if Windows. So what? FD> Sometimes you need two or three layers of them, Name one. FD> but in this case just the one should suffice. Yes, it requires only one. FD> The question is which one. Several are available and we've FD> had conflicting reports about each one. So some trial and FD> error is needed. No it isn't. Some configuration is needed. None of this explains why you referred this user to the v314 when there is a v315 and v316. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:22 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03211 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01866 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:52:27 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Commercial file servers that support kermit? Date: 15 Feb 2000 17:52:27 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88c3or$1q8$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <38A87C9F.73F74B5D@math.uiuc.edu>, Adam H. Lewenberg wrote: : I am looking for a server that would allow me to upload and : download files using Kermit, preferably one running the Internet : Kermit Service Daemon. This way, : I could exchange files with others and make use of the power : of Kermit (e.g., only upload new file/changed files, use secure : transfer, etc). : : Does anyone know of any place that rents out disk space for this : purpose (I would need ~5-10 M of space)? : It appears the response to this query has not been exactly overwhelming. There are two issues: 1. Convincing a site it is safe -- and a good idea -- to run IKSD, and helping them install it, if necessary. We're glad to help. 2. Having a user ID and disk space on that site. Issues of access and sharing in IKSD are no different from FTP. If you have a user ID, you have your own access rights. If you're anonymous, you're restricted to the /pub/ftp tree (or other segment of the sysadmin's choice). Whether anonymous users can upload files is at the discretion of the sysadmin. As we all know, allowing anonymous uploads is dangerous, and allowing read access to anonymously uploaded files is even more dangerous -- not only to the potential downloader (viruses, etc), but to the site administrator (liability, copyright infringement, etc). Think of IKSD as an alternative to FTPD that provides more functionality and a greater range of authentication methods. It doesn't solve social problems. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:23 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03216 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:22 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00076 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:58:45 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Installing Kermit Date: 10 Feb 2000 16:58:43 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87uqo3$29$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <87uhg6$amt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: : Can anybody help, Please??!!! My first time working with Kermit and : I'm having a hard time. Here is my my makefile along with the : errors I'm getting. : ... : (root): /home/mine/kermit> make aix43 : ... : ld: 0711-781 ERROR: TOC overflow. TOC size: 70908 Maximum size: 65536 : ... : Please tell me what we're doing wrong? Thanks in advance : This is a strange report because it doesn't happen elsewhere to my knowledge. I've built C-Kermit 7.0 on AIX 4.1.3 through 4.3.3 without this error. My first reply about increasing -qmaxmem wasn't right; it does not affect this problem. According to "man ld" on AIX 4.3: Options (-bOptions) ... bigtoc Generates extra code if the size of the table of contents (TOC) is greater than 64KB. Extra code is needed for every reference to a TOC symbol that cannot be addressed with a 16-bit offset. Because a program containing generated code may have poor performance, you should reduce the number of TOC entries needed by the program before using this option. The default is the nobigtoc option. ... nobigtoc Generates a severe error message if the size of the TOC is greater than 64KB. If an output file is produced, it will not execute correctly. This is the default. Therefore, adding -bbigtoc should remove this error. However, the man page is not crystal clear on the syntax. Is it "-bbigtoc" or "-bOptions:bigtoc" or what? I tried both, and there were no complaints. But then again, I can't reproduce the original problem on any AIX 4.1 platform I have access to. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:23 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03220 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15993 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:13:36 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:17:38 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-11 d.cox@sk.sympatico.ca said: DC> On 2000-02-11 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: DC>> This probably means that you simply use Kermit to dial the Unix DC>> computer. In that case you don't need anything extra; you just use DC>> Kermit as it is; the Internet part is taken care of by the computer that DC>> you dialed, not by Kermit. --8<--cut DC> I can't get either Kermit or ZIICS to use this driver. In the DC> documentation for ZIICS it says that one person connected to the Internet DC> by using a virtual modem. I have downloaded this program, but it is for DC> OS/2. I appreciate your replies. Michel has setup and used just about every packet driver and shim that there is for DOS (some I'd never even heard of). 8) He has used a program that can do virtual modems for DOS, I know because we've discussed it many times. I've not used it myself so Michel would be the one to help with that. The configuration files for these can be quite cryptic and might require long hours of trial and error to get them to work properly without assistance. If you asked him he could tell you what you need but he probably won't discuss it here in this forum. Try `www.docsplace.org' in the TCPIP or DRDEBUG echos of FIDO. I asked the Kaptain Kermit Squad to be nice but they thought they knew it all and had no need of Michel. Obviously they were mistaken. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:24 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03223 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15984 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:13:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:17:32 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-10 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: FD> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc FD> In article , FD> wrote: FD> None of this explains why you referred this user to the v314 when there FD> is a v315 and v316. FD> Because the version 3.14 ZIP file contains all the text files, in FD> particularly NETWORKS\SETUP.DOC, which must be read by those who want to FD> get TCP/IP working with MS-DOS Kermit. This then begs the question "Por Qua"? Version 3.15 of MSKermit is _not_ a `beta' and it would seem logical to put those other files into the v3.15 archive (we're talking 10 minutes of someone's time?). Instead you want newcomers to download v3.14 and somehow (?) realize they can download v3.15 and insert it in place of v3.14 (delete the auto-patch references in the INI file) and _then_ if they want to use the _latest_ release download a _third_ time for v3.16 beta #8 which is probably only on Joe Doupnik's computers. On WERMIT I believe beta #6 is the newest. This seem logical to anyone? FD> Version 3.15, as noted on the Website, is installed as an "overlay" over FD> the 3.14 base. Ditto for 3.16. This seems very obvious to you but it's what most commercial operations would call careless or at best sloppy administration. I don't understand why `uue' and `boo' and outdated versions of archives are the accepted `norm' for you people. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:25 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03226 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15986 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:13:30 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:17:35 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-10 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: FD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc FD>In article , FD> wrote: CA> Wrong. It looks like a packet driver because it is one. FD>FD> This is the world of "shims" in DOS networking. CA> Or the world of API's and SOCKETS if Windows. So what? FD>FD> Sometimes you need two or three layers of them, CA> Name one. FD>FD> but in this case just the one should suffice. CA> Yes, it requires only one. FD>FD> The question is which one. Several are available and we've had FD>FD> conflicting reports about each one. So some trial and error is needed. CA> No it isn't. Some configuration is needed. FD> Charles, we appreciate your efforts to be helpful. Considering the run around I got from _you_ it should be obvious I am trying to help the originator of the question. FD> If you would like to recommend a specific driver that this person can use FD> on a PC/AT to provide PPP service in a way that Kermit can use, and FD> discuss the specifics of the configuration, that would be most welcome. Gee thanks FD but I don't need permission and you're not a `we'. FD> I'm quite sure you know more about this than we do. If your reply was a serious attempt then apparently yes I do. If this person would like to login to `www.docsplace.org' and access the TCPIP or DRDEBUG forums there I will do what I can. I prefer to leave _you_ as I found you. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:25 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03236 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA05025 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:44:38 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: a puzzle with regard to c-kermit Date: 12 Feb 2000 04:44:36 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <882ofk$4su$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , Arthur Wouk wrote: : the situation: sun sparc2 running first c-kermit 6, and now c-kermit 7 : (the latest release. (os is solaris2.4) : : diallin in to my ISP running then solaris2.4 on a sparc10, now : solaris2.6 on a sparc20. used to have c-kermit6, now the latest : release c-kermit7. : : because of problems (unknown), i have to run 'set prefix all' for the : latest release to get binary transmission, previously this was not : needed. this is NOT the problem. Versions previous to C-Kermit 7.0 defaulted to SET PREFIX ALL which resulted in slow transfers over transparent links. Now C-Kermit defaults to SET PREFIX CAUTIOUS : now the problem: downloads of both binary and ASCII files are no : problem in both states. ASCII uploads are fine. binary uploads proceed : for a while, not too long, say 10 or 15 kilobytes, and then the : transmission hangs. this for both configurations. Your dialup connection (terminal server?) is not transparent. : uuencoding the binary doesn't help. probably something goes wrong when : some code which is not present in ASCII but is present in both binary : and uuencoded binary appears. Uuencoded binary files are completely ASCII. : how do i trouble shoot this? Use ROBUST or CAUTIOUS tranfers instead of the default FAST transfers. See the Troubleshooting chapter of "Using C-Kermit" for details on finer tuning. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03257 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12428 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:05:25 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Mark Sapiro Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:51:53 -0800 Organization: Not Very Much Message-ID: <38A46859.ACD7907E@value.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu > In article , > wrote: > Let me explain further what I am trying to do. I have a PPP connection to > the Internet, which I dial into with my modem. I have the ZIICS program > that works on a shell connection to a telnet server, to provide a graphical > user interface for Internet chess. I would like to be able to get ZIICS to > work on my PPP connection. As it is now ZIICS will dial up, log in and then > can't work with the PPP protocol. I thought that Kermit was similar in this > regard, so if I could figure out how Kermit managed to handle it , then > maybe I could get ZIICS to work too. It seems that Kermit requires a PPP > packet driver. I have download one. I can get it to dial into my Internet > number and log in. It looks like the driver is communicating with my > connection, but then I am returned to the Dos prompt. I can't get either > Kermit or ZIICS to use this driver. I think I understand what you're trying to do. The short answer is Kermit is not relevant. True, MS-Kermit can make direct dial-up connections to a host and can also work with help over a PPP connection, but MS-Kermit has its own TCP/IP stack to enable it to communicate using TCP/IP which is the protocol used over a PPP connection. Presumably, ZIICS does not have this and has no way to speak TCP/IP without further assistance. Possibly, yet another networking layer could be added between ZIICS and the PPP connection to accomplish what you're trying to do, but figuring out how to do it with MS-Kermit and then transferring that knowledge to ZIICS is not going to provide much help. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:26 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03267 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28112 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:32:01 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 9 Feb 2000 19:31:59 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87sfbf$reb$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <87sd5c$1mb3$1@news.enteract.com>, Dale A. Dellutri wrote: : ... : Are there any plans to include a basic PPP driver in C-Kermit itself? : No. PPP is a very complicated protocol and UNIX, VMS, etc, already have PPP drivers. : In other words, C-Kermit would not need any external software to : establish a PPP connection (over dial-up), and then allow telnet or : set host or whatever from within C-Kermit to establish a terminal : session with a remote host. I'd like this capability in the VMS, UNIX : and Windows version of C-Kermit. : : Note that C-Kermit would not have to "hand off" this PPP connection to : any other program (though that would be a nice feature in those : systems for which "hand off" is possible) -- it would be used solely : for that C-Kermit session. : Well, it would still need a TCP/IP stack. Only MS-DOS Kermit has its own built in, simply because DOS doesn't include one, whereas Windows 95 and later does, as do Unix, VMS, etc (although sometimes as add-ons). Anyway, it's not clear how an internal PPP implementation would interface to the external TCP/IP stack. : Any plans for this? : It might be an interesting area of inquiry, but given all the other demands, there's not much liklihood anybody would ever find time for it, unless it was in the framework of academic research or instruction, e.g. a class project. This is not a cop-out -- a great many of Kermit's features came about that way. Kermit source code often acts as a "lab" in the academic setting, in which all sorts of ideas can be explored and tested in an operational environment. It might make sense for MS-DOS Kermit to include its own integrated PPP driver, but that would be a large undertaking and given the availability of external drivers, the cost versus benefit ratio seems prohibitive. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03270 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04078 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:26:17 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: 11 Feb 2000 18:26:16 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <881k88$3vb$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , wrote: : On 2000-02-11 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: : : >This probably means that you simply use Kermit to dial the Unix : >computer. In that case you don't need anything extra; you just use : >Kermit as it is; the Internet part is taken care of by the computer : >that you dialed, not by Kermit. : : Let me explain further what I am trying to do. I have a PPP connection to : the Internet, which I dial into with my modem. I have the ZIICS program : that works on a shell connection to a telnet server, to provide a graphical : user interface for Internet chess. I would like to be able to get ZIICS to : work on my PPP connection. As it is now ZIICS will dial up, log in and then : can't work with the PPP protocol. I thought that Kermit was similar in this : regard, so if I could figure out how Kermit managed to handle it , then : maybe I could get ZIICS to work too. It seems that Kermit requires a PPP : packet driver. I have download one. I can get it to dial into my Internet : number and log in. It looks like the driver is communicating with my : connection, but then I am returned to the Dos prompt. I can't get either : Kermit or ZIICS to use this driver. : Which driver? Anyway, if this is some kind of dedicated ZIICS port on the Internet, Kermit won't do you any good at this point -- Kermit is a Telnet client, not a chess player. It seems your questions are actually about ZIICS (which we've never heard of) and PPP. It's not clear from your description where ZIICS is supposed to run -- on your PC, on a shell account that you access from your PC (but then how can it be graphical?), etc. Anyway, this is not job for Kermit, unless you want to use Kermit as your dialer (you can exit from MS-DOS Kermit and leave the connection open for other applications to use, e.g. ZIICS or a PPP driver). Kermit can be a terminal emulator on a serial connection, and it can be a Telnet client. - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03273 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA26903 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:39:00 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 05:33:09 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-11 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: FD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc CA> This then begs the question "Por Qua"? CA> Version 3.15 of MSKermit is _not_ a `beta' and it would seem logical to CA> put those other files into the v3.15 archive (we're talking 10 minutes of CA> someone's time?). Instead you want newcomers to download v3.14 and CA> somehow (?) realize they can download v3.15 and insert it in place of CA> v3.14 (delete the auto-patch references in the INI file) FD> The reason is that the documentation files: KERMIT.UPD, KERMIT.BWR, FD> KERMIT.HLP, NETWORKS\SETUP.DOC, and so on, have not been updated to 3.15. FD> Packaging them with the 3.15 software would give the false impression FD> that they were current. Or you could add a README explaining that the docs are for v314. That would be difficult? FD> Or to put it another way, 3.14 is still the most recent coherent and FD> properly packaged release. We hope we can bring everything back into FD> alignment when version 3. 16 is released, but we can't promise it. Yes, avoid commitments. FD> It is one of many things we would like to do, but there are not enough FD> people or time to do everything. My v314 is dated `95. In 5 years there was no time? In an earlier message you referred to assigning MSK as a class project, now there are no people and no time. In short, documentation doesn't interest you. FD> However, most users agree it is better to have 3.15 and the 3.16 Betas FD> available, even if not fully packaged, than not at all. Version 3.14 is FD> available for those who prefer a coherent package. Or it could be that newer v315 and v316 MSKermit running in a DOS box work so well that it competes with K95? In the _real_ world this logic wouldn't float. > > , , > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:27 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03276 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:27 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA02678 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:33:15 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Subject: Re: Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7 Date: 10 Feb 2000 06:33:12 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <87tm38$2j3$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <950141817.1720873735@news.msu.edu>, John Valenti wrote: : I'm trying to move a script from K95 to C-kermit. : The connection uses "telnet pilot.msu.edu:105" which works : with K95 and C-kermit 6.1.193, but fails under 7.0 : : I added some commands to "set telopt ... refused" for terminal-type, : naws, new-environment and kermit. That helped, but the connection : is still eventually refused, waiting for the "DO Kermit" response. : : I tried the /raw option, that didn't help. Using the /nowait option starts : the connection, but then it acts weird a few minutes later. : : Do I need to use the "set telnet bug binary-me-means-u-too" options? : I don't quite understand the manual information on those... : =============== : The port 105 option above connects to a CSO (directory) server. When : it works, a command like "query name=aa" will return info about people : with last names starting with aa. (Try it if you want) : : I would like to use 7.0 for the Kerbang scripts and command line : arguments. : : Thanks for any help! The TELNET command in C-Kermit 7.0 and Kermit 95 1.1.18 or higher means to use the TELNET protocol no matter what port is being specified. If you do not want to use the TELNET protocol then the SET HOST command should be used instead. TELNET is shorthand for SET HOST /CONNECT host port /TELNET Using TELNET protocol to this host:port yields the following: telnet pilot.msu.edu:105 DNS Lookup... Trying 35.9.5.117... Reverse DNS Lookup... (OK) - ?Telnet Protocol Timeout - connection closed ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL TERMINAL-TYPE ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NAWS ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL AUTHENTICATION ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NEW-ENVIRONMENT Can't connect to pilot017.cl.msu.edu:105 Which is because your host does not respond to TELNET negotiations. When the command SET HOST /CONNECT pilot.msu.edu:105 /RAW is used I am connected and the query works as specified if the end of line is LF and not CR. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03279 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA03012 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 02:00:13 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Steve Manning Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:53:04 -0600 Message-ID: <38a10ed1$0$187@news.execpc.com> Organization: ExecPC Internet - Milwaukee, WI To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On Tue, 08 Feb 2000 14:16:12 GMT, cangel@famvid.com wrote: > >On 2000-02-07 manning@execpc.com said: > >SM> Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc > >SM> not-2-disclose@the.net wrote: >SM> Obviously the plans being discussed in the post you quoted were >SM> plans for the past. > >Kermit = The Past IMO Well being such an avid practitioner of revisionist history, no wonder you spend such a large amount of time here - you get to keep your skills in top shape. >SM> I for one plan on investing in Microsoft upon their IPO. Anyone >SM> know when that was? > >Your an entrepeneur! Are you a slicer AND a dicer?! Uh... no... too busy payin' my bills and being a dad. >SM> What else do you plan for *but* the future?? > >A `Gumpism'? Can anyone find Chuck's point? It seems to have gotten itself lost amidst all the weak attempts to deflect my criticism of Michel's post. >SM> C'mon Michel... cut it out... you're killing us out here!! > >I told the Kaptain Kermit boys they could be nice, they ignored me, >now Michel is angry. So that excuses the howling misstatements and (deliberate?) obtuseness of his post? >BTW: Do we need to know your job title or does it tickle your scrotum to >see it in print? So to sum up here we see Charles: - slamming kermit as being outdated (but yet somehow still of use to Charles, or else why do we have to put up with his continued harangues?) - mis-labeling me as an entrepreneur - slamming entrepreneurs - trying to obliquely paint me as a "Forrest Gump" philosopher (I surmise) - excusing Michel's laughable post which attempted to replace reason with volume as being attributable to Michel's outrage at the Columbia folks' shabby treatment of Charles (no ego here... nope, nuh uh) - trying to get my goat by criticizing me for ... having an automatic signature in my news poster (not to mention attempting to elicit a reaction by referring to my "naughty bits") All I did was point out that Michel tried to make a distinction between a "plan" and a "future plan" (excuse me... a "FUTURE PLAN"), which is rather preposterous. You have to wonder what his real reason for posting was, because what we *don't* see is some sort of refutation of my post's point. All foam, no beer. Charles, your slip is showing. Steve nothing else (OMG Charles! It worked! You affected change!) From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:28 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03282 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03305 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:19:57 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: John Santos Subject: Re: Connecting to Internet Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:11:51 -0500 Message-ID: To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article , cangel@famvid.com says... > > On 2000-02-11 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu(FrankdaCruz) said: > > FD>Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc > > CA> This then begs the question "Por Qua"? > > CA> Version 3.15 of MSKermit is _not_ a `beta' and it would seem logical to > CA> put those other files into the v3.15 archive (we're talking 10 minutes of > CA> someone's time?). Instead you want newcomers to download v3.14 and > CA> somehow (?) realize they can download v3.15 and insert it in place of > CA> v3.14 (delete the auto-patch references in the INI file) > > FD> The reason is that the documentation files: KERMIT.UPD, KERMIT.BWR, > FD> KERMIT.HLP, NETWORKS\SETUP.DOC, and so on, have not been updated to 3.15. > FD> Packaging them with the 3.15 software would give the false impression > FD> that they were current. > > Or you could add a README explaining that the docs are for v314. That would > be difficult? > > FD> Or to put it another way, 3.14 is still the most recent coherent and > FD> properly packaged release. We hope we can bring everything back into > FD> alignment when version 3. 16 is released, but we can't promise it. > > Yes, avoid commitments. > > FD> It is one of many things we would like to do, but there are not enough > FD> people or time to do everything. > > My v314 is dated `95. In 5 years there was no time? You are really good at finding things for other people to do. Why don't you do something useful with your life? > In an earlier message you referred to assigning MSK as a class project, now > there are no people and no time. > > In short, documentation doesn't interest you. > > FD> However, most users agree it is better to have 3.15 and the 3.16 Betas > FD> available, even if not fully packaged, than not at all. Version 3.14 is > FD> available for those who prefer a coherent package. > > Or it could be that newer v315 and v316 MSKermit running in a DOS box work so > well that it competes with K95? > > In the _real_ world this logic wouldn't float. Since when do you know *anything* about the real world? > > > > , , > > o/ Charles.Angelich \o , > > <| @AngelFire.com |> __o/ > > / > USA, MI < \ __\__ -- John Santos From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:29 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03285 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03610 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:59:58 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <021000014332not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:49:24 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi Charles, About "Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of February 8: MS> [...Sorry for making mine that "ME TOO" which fits so well, MS> Charles!...] CA> No problem Michel, Kaptain Kermit annoys me too. There were many Captain Kermit, lately! I think that's quite prematured since the winter is still on - we're not supposed to hear buzzing birds before the spring has arrived! Surprizingly, they remind me of squeeky bird sounds... Isn't it? %-) I like birds but not them. Go figure... Ng> ...send me URL or sample pdf source or ascii source spec or code. CA> Could you posssibly reply to his request with the answer he needs CA> (URLs) instead of Kaptain Kermit's "buy the book" and "read our HTML CA> about our past glory" response? Oh, i noticed that generous response where Joe Doupnik quickly refers Ng to the post from Frank da Cruz ("Re: Kermit Spec" of February 7), a post where you can find four ~URL~s but not one is the right one because they obviously DISREGARDED the last part where Ng asks for the source-code... Yeah, i guess it reminds me of something, again! Well here's the ~URL~: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/archives/msk315src.zip [...] MS> Anybody who can read and gather some comprehension from that MS> reading can see that NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT PLANS FOR THE FUTURE. SM> Obviously the plans being discussed in the post you quoted were SM> plans for the past. CA> Kermit = The Past IMO Quite certainly, that's the case! Is it the future as well? I wonder. SM> C'mon Michel... cut it out... you're killing us out here!! CA> I told the Kaptain Kermit boys they could be nice, they ignored me, CA> now Michel is angry. Oh, but that's written in plain English - try gibberish intead!!! %-D) The `Kermit' squad has cognitive problems: their reply to the post from Ng is a striking example, the posts from the Captains Kermit is another! [...] Best Salutations, Michel Samson ************************************************************************ * Peculiar bucolic scene: They all come to a stop, take a break... * * let you see a little bit more of the whiteness around their immense * * eyes and then... and then pinch your nose and run for your life! * * * * A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task force. * ************************************************************************ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:29 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03288 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03177 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:44:20 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: Mark Sapiro Subject: Re: Help with telnet in C-Kermit 7 Date: 10 Feb 2000 06:40:51 GMT Organization: Not Very Much Message-ID: <87tmhj$291$1@news.value.net> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu John Valenti wrote: : I'm trying to move a script from K95 to C-kermit. : The connection uses "telnet pilot.msu.edu:105" which works : with K95 and C-kermit 6.1.193, but fails under 7.0 : I added some commands to "set telopt ... refused" for terminal-type, : naws, new-environment and kermit. That helped, but the connection : is still eventually refused, waiting for the "DO Kermit" response. : I tried the /raw option, that didn't help. Using the /nowait option starts : the connection, but then it acts weird a few minutes later. For what it's worth, I tried four Kermits. Kermit 95 1.1.17, 18 June 1998 seemed to work fine. Kermit 95 1.1.19 Beta.16, Feb 8 2000 with default settings gave: DNS Lookup... Trying 35.9.5.118... Reverse DNS Lookup... (OK) - (long wait here) ?Telnet Protocol Timeout - connection closed ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL TERMINAL-TYPE ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NAWS ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL AUTHENTICATION ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NEW-ENVIRONMENT Can't connect to pilot.msu.edu:105 I then "set telnet wait-for-negotions off" (same effect as /nowait switch I believe) and it seemed to work except for two things: I had to "set local-echo on" after making connection, and Something extraneous appeared to be sent as I always got "514:Unsupported command" in response to my first input (subsequent inputs worked as expected). I don't know if I would have seen "it acts weird a few minutes later". I didn't try it that long. C-Kermit 7.0.196, 1 Jan 2000, for FreeBSD 3.0 gave: DNS Lookup... Trying 35.9.5.118... Reverse DNS Lookup... (OK) Negotiations................................................................... ....................................................... ?Telnet Protocol Timeout - connection closed ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL TERMINAL-TYPE ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NAWS ?Telnet waiting for response to WILL NEW-ENVIRONMENT Can't open connection to pilot018.cl.msu.edu:105 With "set telnet wait-for-negotiations off" it was the same as Kermit 95 1.1.19 Beta.16, Feb 8 2000. C-Kermit 7.0.196, 1 Jan 2000, for HP-UX 10.20 gave exactly the same results down to the number of dots following "Negotiations" as did C-Kermit 7.0.196, 1 Jan 2000, for FreeBSD 3.0. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:29 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03291 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01157 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:36:50 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: pb with script programming, Date: 15 Feb 2000 17:36:46 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <88c2re$142$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <88c1mo$o8c$1@wanadoo.fr>, AMT wrote: : i wirk on an hp/ux 10.0 workstation : And C-Kermit? Which version? The current version is 7.0: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html : I want to make the same commands to differents nodes of my network : : i have coded the script : .. : cat /etc/hosts | while read LIGNE : do : EQUIP= echo $LIGNE | awk '{print $2}'` : CMDE="set host $EQUIP, take /filexx" : kermit -c "$CMDE"; : echo "AAAAA" : done : echo "BBBBB"" : exit : I think in "kermit -c" you need an uppercase 'C'. However, this is not the best way to execute a C-Kermit script in Unix. Please visit: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.html to find out how to construct and invoke your C-Kermit scripts exactly as if they were shell scripts. : the filexx have : def unix do vax, set term byte 7 : set input timeout-action proceed : ..... : : set exit warning off : : input 1 ok : if success go to suit : end : :suit : ... : ... : end : : when all the nodes are up it's ok, but when the node "n" is down i have the : message : unable to connect to "n" : connection time-out. i go back to my script and it execute echo AAAAA echo : BBBBB and it ends. so i havent made my commands to the nodes n+1 n+2 ..... : : who can help me ? : Where is the list of nodes coming from? Personally, I would recode the script as a Kermit script (no shell scripting), put the list of nodes in an array, and loop through the array. Example: #!/usr/local/bin/kermit + declare \&n[] = node1 node2 node3 node4 ... for \%i 1 \fdim(&n) 1 { set host \&n[\%i] if fail { (commands to execute if node can't be reached) } else { (commands to execute if connection to node was successful) } } exit 0 Of course you can also have the script read the list of nodes from a file, or get it from an environment variable, receive them as command-line arguments, or any other way you like. Here is how to do it with command-line arguments: #!/usr/local/bin/kermit + for \%i 1 \v(argc) 1 { set host \&_[\%i] ; This is the array of command-line arguments if fail { (commands to execute if node can't be reached) } else { (commands to execute if connection to node was successful) } } exit 0 For details, see the script programming chapters of "Using C-Kermit": http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck60manual.html and the C-Kermit 7.0 update notes: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit2.html - Frank From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:30 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03294 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06214 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:07:39 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f Subject: Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities From: cangel@famvid.com Message-ID: Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 20:21:34 GMT To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu On 2000-02-09 manning@execpc.com said: SM>>SM> Obviously the plans being discussed in the post you quoted were SM>>SM> plans for the past. SM>> Kermit = The Past IMO SM> Well being such an avid practitioner of revisionist history, no SM> wonder you spend such a large amount of time here - you get to keep SM> your skills in top shape. No I'm here because I'm fascinated by those who are paid to do nothing. SM>> Your an entrepeneur! Are you a slicer AND a dicer?! SM> Uh... no... too busy payin' my bills and being a dad. Ah. How many times? I have 6 and 13 grandchildren. SM>>SM> What else do you plan for *but* the future?? SM>> A `Gumpism'? SM> Can anyone find Chuck's point? It seems to have gotten itself lost SM> amidst all the weak attempts to deflect my criticism of Michel's SM> post. You have to admit it _looks_ like a `Gumpism'. SM>>SM> C'mon Michel... cut it out... you're killing us out here!! SM>> I told the Kaptain Kermit boys they could be nice, they ignored me, SM>> now Michel is angry. SM> So that excuses the howling misstatements and (deliberate?) SM> obtuseness of his post? You reap what you sow? SM>> BTW: Do we need to know your job title or does it tickle your SM>> scrotum to see it in print? SM> So to sum up here we see Charles: SM> - slamming kermit as being outdated (but yet somehow still of use to SM> Charles, or else why do we have to put up with his continued SM> harangues?) I also use `legacy' hardware. SM> - mis-labeling me as an entrepreneur SM> - slamming entrepreneurs I apologize to the _real_ entrenpreneurs and their bankers. SM> - trying to obliquely paint me as a "Forrest Gump" philosopher (I SM> surmise) Could be worse, you could be a Moonie. SM> - excusing Michel's laughable post which attempted to replace reason SM> with volume as being attributable to Michel's outrage at the SM> Columbia folks' shabby treatment of Charles (no ego here... nope, SM> nuh uh) You misunderstood what I said. Their treatment of Michel was shabby and I asked them to be nicer to Michel, not me. I could see they would never consider being anything but Kaptain Kermit when I asked a question. SM> - trying to get my goat by criticizing me for ... having an SM> automatic signature in my news poster (not to mention attempting to SM> elicit a reaction by referring to my "naughty bits") Obviously I was wrong since you didn't use it this time. It must've been a glitch in your software. 9) SM> All I did was point out that Michel tried to make a distinction SM> between a "plan" and a "future plan" (excuse me... a "FUTURE PLAN"), SM> which is rather preposterous. By rewording it as a `Gumpism' ... I see. SM> You have to wonder what his real reason for posting was, because SM> what we *don't* see is some sort of refutation of my post's point. You're probably wrong about that ... (as the clouds roll in) SM> All foam, no beer. You're probably wrong about that ... (as more clouds roll in) SM> Steve SM> nothing else (OMG Charles! It worked! You affected change!) Isn't it nice to leave the dizzying heights and join us here on terra firma? Now you're `Steve' - one of the guys just like the rest of us. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:30 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03297 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA15157 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:41:29 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: Connecting to Internet Message-ID: <021000144910not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 19:57:46 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hi David, About the "Connecting to Internet" thread of February 9: DC> How do you use Kermit to connect to the Internet from a PC? As indicated before, you need a DOS ~PPP~ PACKET-DRIVER (or ~TCP~/~IP~ STACK). You can try to get a copy of a message i sent on January 15 to Jake in this ~NG~, i titled it "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities"... If you start from January 1, you'll get the hole story. For starters, you will find out that i used `MS-Kermit' on a 8088 4,77 Mhz long ago. The only thing that is in the way right now is `MS-DOS v3.2', i'm afraid you need to up-grade to version 3.30 or better if you are to run batch-files in the way i suggested to Jake, unless you can find a way to adapt it... Most unfortunately, Charles advised that it can be dangerous to up-grade to version 3.30 from earlier versions if you don't have a back-up before you do... Charles Angelich has experience with v3.1, he might give you hints on what you can/must not do. :) Also, don't restrict yourself to using `MS-Kermit v3.14', versions 3.15+ have a usefull Auto-D/L feature! As Charles pointed out, `FidoNet' echos is one possibility. My discover of this ~NG~ here was less than a happy event; the team outraged me to no end and i'm not willing to participate with too much "contributions", anymore. Go to the `FidoNet_TCP/IP' echo and look for the 10 parts post titled "MSKermit/DOS TCPIP" and which i addressed to mr. Gostin Manda on February 4. It describes in detail how you can run `Kermit' as a ~WEB~, ~FTP~, ~IRC~, ~NNTP~ client (via ~TelNet~), etc... It uses a DOS ~ODI~ stack which happens to be included inside the Caldera ShareWare known as `DR_Web-Spyder'; i gave a batch-file/configuration-file example. I can consider a private correspondance if you're willing to pursue with this but it will be slow; i prefer to start with the `FidoNet' echo first... ;-) Since you may not have access to `FidoNet' right now, i suppose it would be usefull for you to be aware of one of two other possibilities... One of those is `DOSPPPd v0.6 Beta', this pilot can be found inside `Arachne v1.50' - a way to find `Arachne' is to get it from `PTS-DOS 2000'; it's a set of two 1M44 diskette-images, the 1st one is bootable so DON'T boot from it on a DOS v3.1 PC! This ~URL~ can prove to be usefull if needed: http://www.kiarchive.ru/pub/msdos/os/ptsds2k.zip `Arachne v1.50' might not be able to run on your machine but if it does, then the installation can be done very easily thru its "Wizard". If you happen to have a non-standard serial-port setup, you'll need to edit the configuration-file, to remove the "COMx" line. `DOSPPPd'/`EPPPd' can be found in another DOS package named `FNOS v1.7x', also, as i recall. %-) I used it long ago, it too can help you configuring the pilot but that's not an experience i liked much... I might help you to setup `EPPPd.EXE' by hand but i have little time for that: once, i came to great expenses for providing Jake with an extensive/detailed reply to his question and this guy never even bothered to tell me how it got; i promissed myself that i wouldn't invest so much time for an incognito user never again... Also, my experience with "The Kermit Team" learned me that i need to be able to trust a person first before i can go any further!... %-o There is no point into engaging myself in a "one-way discussion" where i can't expect the slightest echo - such as how it goes. I love friendly BBSing but i must confess you don't see me in my best period, these days. :( Anyway. %-) The third possibility is a DOS ~ODI~ stack by Klos: `PPP-Share v1.20'. The following ~URL~ still has a copy of the 15 m demonstrator version: http://www.quorus.ru/ftp/dos/tcpip/pppodi.zip This archive is about 8 times smaller than `Arachne' (325 Kb)... It has three files of interrest: `PPPDemo.ZIP' (the one you'd need), `PPP.INF' (relates to the first one, as i recall), `Packet_D.109' (specifications which are about a commercial ~SLIP~/~PPP~ pilot by NetManage, the former FTP Sotware - it's not on topic but it can be distracting). %) Once, i posted a 3 parts message to Simon Iremonger about "NetXpress etc" in the `FidoNet_Dos_Internet' area on November 25. I've shown him a batch-file example that's meant to load `PPP.EXE' and set DOS environment variables for use with the same `MSKermit.INI' file i use with `DR_Web-Spyder' and `DOSPPPd'... The Klos archive *REQUIRES* `LSL.COM' which is included in `DR_Web-Spyder' and discussed in my post to Jake. Take note that Klos's DOS ~ODI~ stack does work better if you're lucky enough to have a ~FIFO~ buffered (16550-type) ~UART~ on your serial-port, if that's not the case then you better leave it alone!... ;-) The `AirPower' BBS message base might be large enough to still hold a copy of my November 25 post. I've seen a Klos archive of their ShareWare version (1.43), somewhere on the Net (...) but i'm afraid i can't seem to find the ~URL~ any longuer. [...] If we are to continue with this discussion, join me in `FidoNet_TCP/IP'. I *WILL NOT* go much further than this unless i get appologies from the team, for the attitude they displayed from the very same day i arived... %-( Since they pretend to act as if they never got over their head, don't expect more cooperation from me in THIS environment but be assured i'd be more than glad to enter a DOS_INet discussion somewhere else to have a civilized discussion - here, the Gods are not welcoming. Good day! :) Salutations, Michel Samson ************************************************************************ * Peculiar bucolic scene: The team comes to a stop, takes a break... * * let you see a little bit more of the whiteness around their immense * * eyes and then... and then pinch your nose and run for your life! * * * * A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task force. * ************************************************************************ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:30 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03300 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA03817 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 02:03:24 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <021000015401not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:02:54 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Y'ello Steve, About "Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of February 7 and 8: > ...no one at the present time is working to implement Zmodem in MS-DOS > Kermit. Zmodem isn't in the plans for MSK, sorry. ...the Zmodem > support in K95 is there because somebody donated... I have no plans > of touching zmodem file transfer material. MS> ...NOTHING IS SAID ABOUT PLANS FOR THE FUTURE. SM> I for one plan on... Have i not stated - REPEATEDLY - that i was a DOS user, MANY TIMES? You INSIST on posting ME and you can't think of anything else but MicroSoft for your 2nd sentence?! Oh, my! "Systems Administrator" is not exactly the title i would imagine for a guy who can't remember a simple idea!... Moreover, i can't care less about what *YOU* plan - especially if you're a Slave of MicroSoft. Hummm... By the way, i's most probably guys like that who will not refund `Win 9x' when a client specifically asks for an alternative ~OS~... Let me refresh your memory, in case that function of your brain has been impaired irremediably... January 1, "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities": ************************************************************************ I introduce myself, i'm a DOS_InterNet user... ...i looked for DOS INet FreeWare/ShareWare programs in hope that i'd get my hands on some piece of software which can be run even on a minimum setup, meaning: - 8088 4,77 Mhz ~CPU~ ... - No Hard-Disk ... - DOS v3.3... To upgrade the hardware or to switch to protocols like ~FTP~/~HTTP~ *IS NOT* an option. Most unfortunately, `Kermit' doesn't included the `ZMoDem' file transfer protocol... I would welcome postings from people who happen to be doing fine `ZMoDem'/`Kermit' transfers using no more than the minimum setup... I tried a lot of packet drivers and ~TelNet~ "shims"... ************************************************************************ [...] SM> What else do you plan for *but* the future?? Oh boy! Now, are we getting down to semantics or what? Well, if that's about semantics then i'm afraid that's just another mind game... YOU DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE A CLEAR STATEMENT I REPEATED, i can't really expect more from you (future plans/plans for the future - nice try but don't pretend you have tried too much)! In case you would change your attitude, i was thinking about the plan of the plans (in a way, it would be to INTENTION what the plans are to the MEANS by which a problem is to be resolved)... Someone's intention gives rise to ideas, ideas eventually lead to a more immediate problem-solving process where that problem is broken down into smaller parts... There's no such thing as "THE plan", the answer rarely pre-exists in the formulation of the problem itself; instead, you would have little choice but to try to resolve the problem part by part, which implies that some parts have to be dealt with after some others; hence, the nuance i have made. %-7 It was clear that no `ZMoDem' addition for `MS-Kermit' was UNDER WAY but i didn't find one single passage where the team has declared `ZMoDem' Off-Limits, AT PRIORI. What's under scrutiny RIGHT NOW tells you nothing about the team's intents; i asked them many times but no answer ever came... I saw nothing to support or go against my impression that the team already has decided to ignore a `ZMoDem' for `MS-Kermit' topic... A clear statement was never issued. Kapish?! :-o If that's not obvious enough then go ask your boss about the nuance!... SM> C'mon Michel... cut it out... YOU'RE KILLING US out here!! CA> I told the Kaptain Kermit boys they could be nice, they ignored me, CA> now Michel is angry. SM> So that excuses the howling misstatements and (deliberate?) SM> obtuseness of his post? This topic displeases you but THAT'S THE VERY PART YOU RETAIN YOURSELF?! Good! If you feel like it, go ahead and CHOKE ON IT! What can i say?!! You quickly joined the team to add a contribution in your own "style"... let's hope you can recall your own actions, do you?... If you want this to stop there's only one solution and you still got a lot of thinking to do before you can find out what it is! So much for obtuseness... Did i read "misstatements"? Yeah, i guess i did! Well, that's for you to say but you don't seem to be ready to back-up those lies with facts that can be verified. By the way, are you pushing the $elling of `Kermit' book$, by any chance? It would put thing$ in per$pective... SM> ...being such an avid practitioner of revisionist history... What is it that you are trying to do yourself?! 8-o Only controversial topics appear to inspire you, why is that? Are you only thriving on the other's ideas?!! Aren't you willing to try your best at making your own share, to participate to the creation of a parcel of history?!? It's no wonder you feel an urge to protest on anything which doesn't suit you... Try something constructive for a change!!! Why can't/won't you start a topic of your own instead of silently discarding the many topics related to `MS-Kermit' (i.e. the `Kermit' program - not its maintainers)?! %-o CA> Do we need to know your job title or does it tickle your scrotum to CA> see it in print? SM> So to sum up here we see Charles: - slamming kermit as being SM> outdated... ... - excusing Michel's laughable post... ...no beer. Maybe Charles missed it but not by much: actually it's more like a few inches behind! ;-D) The rest, i can't but agree: September '97 that's a hell of a time for thinking about FUTURE PLANS!... Oh, and my post is making you laugh?!? Well, be my guest but if you're laughing because of a bunch of so-called educated morrons, euh... "so-called educated", not "so-called morrons" because we've got the certitude that they're morrons all right, euh... Anyway, the team tought they could play to mind games with a newcommer - which came to them in good faith (and then i'm afraid that you're own system of values is a bit offset too) - that's pathetic. Michel Samson ************************************************************************ * Peculiar bucolic scene: Steve M. comes to a stop, takes a break... * * lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness around his immense * * eyes and then... and then pinch your nose and run for your life! * * * * A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task force. * ************************************************************************ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03303 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22572 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:30:10 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: terramartin@my-deja.com Subject: Installing Kermit Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:20:59 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Message-ID: <87uhg6$amt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Can anybody help, Please??!!! My first time working with Kermit and I'm having a hard time. Here is my my makefile along with the errors I'm getting. # V7-specific variables. # These are set up for Perkin-Elmer 3230 V7 Unix: # PROC=proc DIRECT= NPROC=nproc NPTYPE=int BOOTFILE=/edition7 # # ( For old Tandy TRS-80 Model 16A or 6000 V7-based Xenix, use PROC=_proc, # DIRECT=-DDIRECT, NPROC=_Nproc, NPTYPE=short, BOOTFILE=/xenix ) # ######################################################################## ### # # Compile and Link variables: # # EXT is the extension (file type) for object files, normally o. # See MINIX entry for what to do if another filetype must be used. # EXT=o #LNKFLAGS= SHAREDLIB= CC= gcc CC2= gcc MAKE= make SHELL=/bin/sh ######################################################################## ### # SAMPLE INSTALLATION SCRIPT # # Modify to suit your own computer's file organization # and permissions. If you don't have write access to the destination # directories, "make install" will fail. In most cases, a real installation # will also require you to chown / chgrp for the UUCP lockfile and/or tty # devices, and perhaps also to chmod +s the appropriate permission fields. # # Default binary, man, and doc directories are supplied below. You can # override them in your 'make' command. Examples: # # make install # Accept defaults. # make "INFODIR=/usr/share/lib/kermit" install # Override INFODIR default. # # You can also build and install in one step, e.g.: # # make sunos41gcc install # WERMIT = makewhat DESTDIR = BINDIR = /usr/local/bin MANDIR = /usr/man/cat1 INFODIR = /usr/local/doc/kermit MANEXT = l ALL = $(WERMIT) all: $(ALL) .c.o: $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -DKTARGET=\"$(KTARGET)\" -c $< #Clean up intermediate and object files clean: @echo 'Removing object files...' -rm -f ckcmai.$(EXT) ckucmd.$(EXT) ckuusr.$(EXT) ckuus2.$(EXT) \ ckuus3.$(EXT) ckuus4.$(EXT) ckuus5.$(EXT) ckcpro.$(EXT) ckcfns.$(EXT) \ ckcfn2.$(EXT) ckcfn3.$(EXT) ckuxla.$(EXT) ckucon.$(EXT) ckutio.$(EXT) \ ckufio.$(EXT) ckudia.$(EXT) ckuscr.$(EXT) ckwart.$(EXT) ckuusx.$(EXT) \ ckuusy.$(EXT) ckcnet.$(EXT) ckuus6.$(EXT) ckuus7.$(EXT) ckusig.$(EXT) \ ckucns.$(EXT) ckcmdb.$(EXT) ckuath.$(EXT) ckctel.$(EXT) ckclib.$(EXT) \ ckcuni.$(EXT) ck_crp.$(EXT) ck_ssl.$(EXT) ckupty.$(EXT) ckcpro.c wart # Install C-Kermit after building -- IMPORTANT: Read the instructions above. install: cp wermit $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR)/kermit chmod 755 $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR)/kermit @echo @echo "Kermit binary installed:" @ls -l $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR)/kermit @echo @echo " WARNING: If C-Kermit is to be used for dialing out, you will" @echo " probably need to change its owner and group and permissions to" @echo " match the cu program. See the ckuins.txt file for details." @echo @echo "Installing man page..." cp ckuker.nr $(DESTDIR)$(MANDIR)/kermit.$(MANEXT) # To make sure 'man' notices the new source file and doesn't keep # showing the old formatted version, remove the old formatted version, # something like this: # rm -f $(DESTDIR)$(MANDIR)/../cat$(MANEXT)/kermit.$(MANEXT) # or this (which requires CATDIR to be defined): # rm -f $(DESTDIR)$(CATDIR)/kermit.$(MANEXT) chmod 644 $(DESTDIR)$(MANDIR)/kermit.$(MANEXT) @echo @echo "Installing info files..." @if test -d $(INFODIR); then \ echo "$(INFODIR) exists..." ; \ else \ echo "Creating $(INFODIR)/..." ; \ mkdir $(INFODIR) ; \ chmod 755 $(INFODIR) ; \ fi @echo "Copying text files to $(INFODIR)..." @cp COPYING.TXT $(INFODIR) @cp ckaaaa.txt $(INFODIR)/READ.ME @cp ckuaaa.txt $(INFODIR) @cp ckermit2.txt ckcbwr.txt ckubwr.txt ckuins.txt $(INFODIR) @cp ckermit.ini ckermod.ini ckurzsz.ini ckermit.k*d $(INFODIR) @cp telnet.txt security.txt iksd.txt $(INFODIR) @cp cke*.ksc $(INFODIR) @cp ckcplm.txt ckccfg.txt $(INFODIR) @chmod 644 $(INFODIR)/* @ls -l $(INFODIR)/* makewhat: @echo 'make what? You must tell which platform to make C- Kermit for.' @echo Examples: make hpux1100, make aix43, make solaris26, etc. @echo Please read the comments at the beginning of the makefile. ######################################################################## ### # # Dependencies Section: manpage: ckuker.nr # Normal version wermit: ckcmai.$(EXT) ckclib.$(EXT) ckucmd.$(EXT) ckuusr.$(EXT) ckuus2.$(EXT) \ ckuus3.$(EXT) ckuus4.$(EXT) ckuus5.$(EXT) ckuus6.$(EXT) \ ckuus7.$(EXT) ckuusx.$(EXT) ckuusy.$(EXT) ckcpro.$(EXT) \ ckcfns.$(EXT) ckcfn2.$(EXT) ckcfn3.$(EXT) ckuxla.$(EXT) \ ckucon.$(EXT) ckutio.$(EXT) ckufio.$(EXT) ckudia.$(EXT) \ ckuscr.$(EXT) ckcnet.$(EXT) ckctel.$(EXT) ckusig.$(EXT) \ ckcuni.$(EXT) ckupty.$(EXT) $(CC2) $(LNKFLAGS) -o wermit \ ckcmai.$(EXT) ckclib.$(EXT) ckutio.$(EXT) ckufio.$(EXT) \ ckcfns.$(EXT) ckcfn2.$(EXT) ckcfn3.$(EXT) ckuxla.$(EXT) \ ckcpro.$(EXT) ckucmd.$(EXT) ckuus2.$(EXT) ckuus3.$(EXT) \ ckuus4.$(EXT) ckuus5.$(EXT) ckuus6.$(EXT) ckuus7.$(EXT) \ ckuusx.$(EXT) ckuusy.$(EXT) ckuusr.$(EXT) ckucon.$(EXT) \ ckudia.$(EXT) ckuscr.$(EXT) ckcnet.$(EXT) ckctel.$(EXT) \ ckusig.$(EXT) ckcuni.$(EXT) ckupty.$(EXT) $(LIBS) # Version with CONNECT module that uses select() instead of fork() (root): /home/mine/kermit> echo $PATH /opt/gnu/bin:/usr/bin:/etc:/usr/sbin:/usr/ucb:/usr/bin/X11:/sbin (root): /home/mine/kermit> pwd /home/mine/kermit (root): /home/mine/kermit> make aix43 Making C-Kermit 7.0.196 for IBM AIX 4.3 or higher... make xermit KTARGET=${KTARGET:-aix43} \ "CFLAGS= -DAIXRS -DAIX41 -DAIX43 -DSVR4 -DSTERMIOX -DTCPSOCKET \ -DDIRENT -DCK_ANSIC -DCLSOPN -DCK_CURSES -DSELECT -DSELECT_H \ -DFNFLOAT -DNOGETUSERSHELL -qmaxmem=8000 -O " \ "LNKFLAGS = -s" "LIBS=-lcurses -lm" make[1]: Entering directory `/home/mine/kermit' gcc -s -o wermit \ ckcmai.o ckclib.o ckutio.o ckufio.o \ ckcfns.o ckcfn2.o ckcfn3.o ckuxla.o \ ckcpro.o ckucmd.o ckuus2.o ckuus3.o \ ckuus4.o ckuus5.o ckuus6.o ckuus7.o \ ckuusx.o ckuusy.o ckuusr.o ckucns.o \ ckudia.o ckuscr.o ckcnet.o ckusig.o \ ckctel.o ckcuni.o ckupty.o -lcurses -lm collect2: ld returned 12 exit status ld: 0711-781 ERROR: TOC overflow. TOC size: 70908 Maximum size: 65536 make[1]: *** [xermit] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/mine/kermit' make: *** [aix43] Error 2 root): /home/mine/kermit> ld ld: 0706-030 No processing done. Specify at least one input or import file or use at least one -b ex option. Please tell me what we're doing wrong? Thanks in advance Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 15:10:31 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03307 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:10:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03580 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:58:18 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: not-2-disclose@the.net Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities Message-ID: <021000014625not-2-disclose@the.net> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:57:03 GMT Organization: Sympatico To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Hello Fred, About "Re: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities" of February 7: FS> I would have preferred to send this to you by private email, but you FS> seem to be too impolite to use a real email address... Oh but you know what? Right from this single innocent sentence i wonder if i'm not witnessing what sounds like the sprout of an abusive, boring, badly mannered social citizen posting that's confused, etc... and which has a great potential for a ranting and flaming correspondance suite!... I'm only using your own words! :-7 Impolite? You wish to act as a soldier of God and that's all the extent of your perception?!? 8-o Didn't you notice that i've asked a SPECIFIC question WHEN I INTRODUCED MYSELF to this NewsGroup, on January 1?! %-7 FS> "For him who is able to keep you from falling..." Hummm... I have no argument to rival something that comes from so high; just a dull piece of down-to-earth history, one i won't/can't *rewrite*: MS> I'm new to this media; will somebody tell me the real dangers of MS> disclosing my ~E-Mail~ address and the ways to defeat them? May "Jesus Christ our Lord" help you make the difference between what He would want you to "see" and what your own mind might allow you to "see". I was refered to something which i'm supposed to know as mail "spoofing" and no other information was given - i don't regret that i was cautious; i'm quite satisfied with myself, actually! If i had been more trustfull with giving up my real ~E-Mail~ address, there's a real risk that i'd be flooded with real religious fanatic junk mail by now! Hell, no thanks! Impolite? Yeah, maybe... I guess i can be that too! Follow the thread and tell me that most people wouldn't mind in a similar situation. Just in case you wouldn't have a complete "vision" (and it appears that yours is slightly impaired, somewhat), here's the ~URL~ which leads toward the Columbia ~FTP~ site where they seem to archive all the posts sent here: ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/Kermit/newsgroups/ This thread is distributed over 2 archives, the one which begins on July 25, 1999 and the other which holds the most current posts (`Misc.TXT'). Judging from the size, that one might become permanent, like the others, any time soon. FS> ...I'm left with no choice but to post it to the world. Most certainly, that must be no problem to a soldier of God who's acting "boldly" in His name, on the contrary! And even if you fail Him, you'll always have the relief that you fought a God against Evil battle... You could sense that i'm displeased, that i made it obvious? Good! You are under the impression that i repeated myself? Fine! Now, go figure why! FS> ...kermit or the policies... ...it's THEIR software. I hope you can make the difference between a program and a person. What difference are you able to see in the way mr. Dallas E. Legan appears to have been perceived by the team when he shared his ~IRC~ macro with this NewsGroup? Hummm?!... Let me help you, in case you wonder; this quote is verbatim, it's from the ~NG~'s archive in a post titled "Re: kermit / tinyirc notes" and was posted on December 8, 1999. This is an excerpt: ************************************************************************ Thanks for your fascinating postings (C-Kermit and screen; stripping ANSI sequences from session logs; IRC script...) -- it's always a treat to see Kermit put to creative uses. ************************************************************************ The difference I see is that he was treated with RESPECT. Frankly, much more than that, actually!... I never expected the team to grant me with a similar mood, no. Respect? After things started to slip a bit - yes! Don't just look at the words. Well, okay, look at the words if you like but try to keep them in their context also... You will find that things are not a simple matter of black & white, good or wrong, God and Evil... Oh, and speaking of the Devil... Have you forgotten to take your pills? Even if you're supposed to have taken a seat by now, i'm afraid that you still need the pills because that's the only one thing which will really keep you from falling, at the moment... 8-o If you happen to have neglected your medication, just stop waisting your time trying to read the little dancing dotted lights on your screen! Go get your bottle at once and come back when you feel better... Then, you will get another explanation about the difference in treatment that i've just exposed above... [...MultiMedia Emulation Mode Enabled - Background sound...] FS> Pop! 8^o FS> Gup, gup, gup... Ahhh! %-O [...MultiMedia Emulation Mode Disabled...] OKay? You're with us? The difference is that the other guy is working withing some bigger environments and he can be perceived as a *POTENTIAL CONTRIBUTOR*! I tried to make it clear, from the start, that i was only pretending to submit an `MS-Kermit' ~NNTP~ script - no strings attached. Now, that Frank - author of the quote above - would find "fascinating" a `C-Kermit' ~IRC~ script and yet, feel differently about mine is his. To join the team in order to back-up his friends as they try to demonize me is another story. To "demonize", haven't you noticed that little touch? *THAT* is what i find fascinating all right!!! %-7 FS> You are, of course, welcome to request enhancements... Me??? To REQUEST?!? To request what?... A constructive critic on some piece of software becomes a pretext for personnal attacks and suggesting becomes demanding?!! Maybe your doctor should revise his pronostic! It is easy to review the chain of events, try that first before you feel as if you must defend, euh... Defend what, actually?!... Euh... Well, go make your home-work - it wouldn't hurt that you do before anything else! Whatever i may have requested, you sure don't seem like you are aware of what it is, actually! If you're looking for dragons, just try the team! FS> You're welcome to stop it at any time. I haven't got what a decent human being is entitled to expect, yet! :-7 FS> Please understand that while it's a free newsgroup, that you're NOT FS> contributing anything useful... Please be a good social citizen... Been there, done that! I'm now waiting for repairment but those persons who started to make me angry act just like they don't know what they do. You want me gone? %-> Try to teach THEM a lesson on humanity!... 8-o FS> Perhaps waving money under their noses will get you what you want... Been there, done that! You can even count the interrest on top of that! I do happen to have bought the book from Frank Da Cruz, it didn't buy me anything... but i didn't expect anything neither, i must add. FS> But please don't continue to dump all over them. Nice way to ask but i'm the one who's being dumped on. I won't stop for the love of you... "Love", i'm sure you must have heard of that one; i have another here for you: "an eye for an eye"... I bet you must know that one as well... FS> It won't do anybody any good, including you. The more it got, the more this topic was heading the wrong way (and from the start) but i can assure you i was pushing in the other direction, it isn't my fault if the team has chosen to work it the other way around... You can take an old horse to the water but you can't force him to drink! Lots of doors were open and now they are closed. %-7 FS> If I get any rants/flames in reply it'll just get you added to my FS> spam filter, so please don't. Please! Oh, please! Don't wait for me! Just do that, please! %-) If i must find ancient satanic formulas to recite to help you do so i will! FS> "For him who is able to keep you from falling... ...to the only God FS> our Savior... Quite obviously, the team and some people from this forum have misleaded you in the big way when you made "first contact", euh... the 1st time! There may be gods here but this kingdom here is quite chimeric at times; that's nothing like the vision you can have of the heaven, dear soldier! What's more, there's no savior here. Have you noticed how the last part of Ng's message was disregarded?... Doesn't it sound familiar by now??? Wrong place! You were misleaded, i'm telling you!!! %'D) Michel Samson ************************************************************************ * Peculiar bucolic scene: Fred S. comes to a stop, takes a break... * * lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness around his immense * * eyes and then... and then pinch your nose and run for your life! * * * * A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task force. * ************************************************************************ From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 16:09:57 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15264 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:09:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10920 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:05:40 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: chgowinger@aol.com.nospam (ChgoWinger) Subject: Dos 6.2 Client32, TCP/IP and Kermit Date: 16 Feb 2000 20:03:08 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000216150308.01130.00001447@ng-ba1.aol.com> To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu Trying to run TCP/IP sessions across a wan using client32, and Kermit is there a way to run this without loading the packet driver or tips to get the packet driver to coexist with the client32 stack. Dell 486's Intel Etherexpress cards. Dos 6.2 Client32 Qemm 6.0 Thanks "D" Chgowinger@aol.NOT.com Address modified due to excessive spam. You know what to do. From news@columbia.edu Wed Feb 16 17:09:56 2000 Return-Path: Received: from newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.59.30]) by watsun.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA27624 for ; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:09:55 -0500 (EST) Received: (from news@localhost) by newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14038 for kermit.misc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu; Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:03:53 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu: news set sender to using -f From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Subject: Re: Dos 6.2 Client32, TCP/IP and Kermit Message-ID: Date: 16 Feb 00 14:05:51 MDT Organization: Utah State University To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu In article <20000216150308.01130.00001447@ng-ba1.aol.com>, chgowinger@aol.com.nospam (ChgoWinger) writes: > Trying to run TCP/IP sessions across a wan using client32, and Kermit > is there a way to run this without loading the packet driver > or tips to get the packet driver to coexist with the client32 stack. > > Dell 486's Intel Etherexpress cards. > Dos 6.2 Client32 Qemm 6.0 > > Thanks > "D" > Chgowinger@aol.NOT.com -------- Works fine with Novell's Client32, using it to type this message. At the end of your C32 startup material say lsl.com pdoseth.com That provides a pseudo lan driver named pdoseth which operates in real mode. In net.cfg create a lan driver section for it, like this: Link Driver pdoseth Protocol IPX 8137 Ethernet_II Protocol IP 0800 Ethernet_II Protocol ARP 0806 Ethernet_II Protocol RARP 8035 Ethernet_II Frame Ethernet_II Frame Ethernet_SNAP Frame Ethernet_802.3 Frame Ethernet_802.2 Note that one must load the regular board 32 bit lan driver once for each Ethernet frame kind, even though we use only Ethernet_II. Ditto for pdoseth. Just do it. MSK then will run over C32's ODI material. MSK is a native speaker of ODI, just as is ipxodi. And only one TCP/IP stack over a board at a time please. Joe D. Article 11209 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.idc.ad.jp!giga-nspixp2!tokyonet.ad.jp!newsfeed.rim.or.jp!netnews.rim.or.jp!not-for-mail From: Ishikawa Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Is 8 data bits, even parity, 1 stop bit possible in kermit? Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 01:15:19 +0900 Organization: RIMNET InterNetNews site Lines: 53 Message-ID: <38AC1E96.3719AC34@yk.rim.or.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: pppa91.yk.rim.or.jp Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: netnews.rim.or.jp 950804126 11280 202.247.186.91 (17 Feb 2000 16:15:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: root@st.rim.or.jp NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Feb 2000 16:15:26 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: ja, en Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11209 Hi, I wonder if kermit gurus can help me. I am trying to see if C-kermit 6.1.193 on Debian GNU/linux can use the following setting: data 8bits, even parity, 1 stop bit. I seem to have a problem in that - if I do set term[TAB] byte[TAB] 8, and see the data size become 8, but parity is set to none. - if I do set parity even, the data size is automatically decreased to 7. So it seems to me that ckermit refuses the above setting. I have noticed HyperTerm on Win98, WinNT permits such setting without a hitch. Is there any special trick to use the above setting? Or is there a newer version of C-kermit that permits such setting. I installed the ckermit from Debian GNU/Linux pacakge system, which is a little behind the c-kermit distribution as noted in Columbia University's web page. I checked the version using show ver[TAB][RETURN] and it sais, Versions: C-Kermit 6.1.193 Beta.05, 7 May 1998 Numeric: 601193 Built for: Linux Running on: Linux #18 SMP Thu Jan 6 06:07:45 JST 2000 2.2.14 i586 Patches: (none) UNIX Communications support, 6.1.190, 4 May 1998 for Linux UNIX File support, 6.1.130, 7 May 1998 for Linux C-Kermit Protocol Module 6.1.106, 8 February 1998 C-Kermit functions, 6.1.154, 8 February 1998 Command package 6.1.099, 1 November 1997 User Interface 6.1.196, 1 February 1998 Character Set Translation 6.1.026, 24 July 1997 CONNECT Command for UNIX:fork(), 6.1.092, 8 May 1998 Dial Command, 6.1.109, 8 February 1998 Script Command, 6.1.029, 8 February 1997 Network support, 6.1.119, 8 May 1998 Any tips will be appreciated. TIA Article 11210 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Is 8 data bits, even parity, 1 stop bit possible in kermit? Date: 17 Feb 2000 16:28:24 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 34 Message-ID: <88h7j8$6nk$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38AC1E96.3719AC34@yk.rim.or.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 950804904 6900 128.59.39.2 (17 Feb 2000 16:28:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Feb 2000 16:28:24 GMT Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11210 In article <38AC1E96.3719AC34@yk.rim.or.jp>, Ishikawa wrote: : I wonder if kermit gurus can help me. : : I am trying to see if C-kermit 6.1.193 on Debian GNU/linux can : use the following setting: : data 8bits, : even parity, : 1 stop bit. : First of all, don't use an old Beta version, use the latest release, 7.0: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html : I seem to have a problem in that : - if I do set term[TAB] byte[TAB] 8, and see the data size become 8, : but parity is set to none. : - if I do set parity even, the data size is automatically decreased : to 7. : : So it seems to me that ckermit refuses the above setting. : A new feature of C-Kermit 7.0 is allowance for 8 data bits plus parity: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit2.html#x2.10 : Or is there a newer version of C-kermit that permits such setting. : I installed the ckermit from Debian GNU/Linux pacakge system, which : is a little behind the c-kermit distribution as noted in : Columbia University's web page. : Please encourage Debian to update their package. - Frank Article 11207 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!news.new-york.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: chgowinger@aol.com.nospam (ChgoWinger) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Dos 6.2 Client32, TCP/IP and Kermit Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Feb 2000 20:03:08 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000216150308.01130.00001447@ng-ba1.aol.com> Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11207 Trying to run TCP/IP sessions across a wan using client32, and Kermit is there a way to run this without loading the packet driver or tips to get the packet driver to coexist with the client32 stack. Dell 486's Intel Etherexpress cards. Dos 6.2 Client32 Qemm 6.0 Thanks "D" Chgowinger@aol.NOT.com Address modified due to excessive spam. You know what to do. Article 11208 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!news.new-york.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!srvr1.engin.umich.edu!news.cc.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!jrd From: jrd@cc.usu.edu (Joe Doupnik) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Dos 6.2 Client32, TCP/IP and Kermit Message-ID: Date: 16 Feb 00 14:05:51 MDT References: <20000216150308.01130.00001447@ng-ba1.aol.com> Organization: Utah State University Lines: 36 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11208 In article <20000216150308.01130.00001447@ng-ba1.aol.com>, chgowinger@aol.com.nospam (ChgoWinger) writes: > Trying to run TCP/IP sessions across a wan using client32, and Kermit > is there a way to run this without loading the packet driver > or tips to get the packet driver to coexist with the client32 stack. > > Dell 486's Intel Etherexpress cards. > Dos 6.2 Client32 Qemm 6.0 > > Thanks > "D" > Chgowinger@aol.NOT.com -------- Works fine with Novell's Client32, using it to type this message. At the end of your C32 startup material say lsl.com pdoseth.com That provides a pseudo lan driver named pdoseth which operates in real mode. In net.cfg create a lan driver section for it, like this: Link Driver pdoseth Protocol IPX 8137 Ethernet_II Protocol IP 0800 Ethernet_II Protocol ARP 0806 Ethernet_II Protocol RARP 8035 Ethernet_II Frame Ethernet_II Frame Ethernet_SNAP Frame Ethernet_802.3 Frame Ethernet_802.2 Note that one must load the regular board 32 bit lan driver once for each Ethernet frame kind, even though we use only Ethernet_II. Ditto for pdoseth. Just do it. MSK then will run over C32's ODI material. MSK is a native speaker of ODI, just as is ipxodi. And only one TCP/IP stack over a board at a time please. Joe D. Article 11205 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!news.eecs.umich.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!isdnet!wanadoo.fr!not-for-mail From: "AMT" Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: PB with scrip Kermit programming Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:17:25 +0100 Organization: AMT Lines: 65 Message-ID: <88dt3b$h9d$1@wanadoo.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: st-etienne-7-122.abo.wanadoo.fr X-Trace: wanadoo.fr 950695851 17709 164.138.90.122 (16 Feb 2000 10:10:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Feb 2000 10:10:51 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11205 who can tell me ho to customize the command file to execute the same commands on n nodes on a network ? I work on an hp/ux 10.01 workstation i want to make automatically a command on three nodes (for example). if the second node is down or doesn't exists my script doesn't continue and the third node is never treated. #!/usr/bin/ksh cat /etc/hosts.6521 | while read LIGNE do EQUIP=`echo $LIGNE | awk '{print $2}'` CMDE="set host $EQUIP, take /softs/AMT/bin/mhker" kermit -C "$CMDE"; echo i have tested $LIGNE done the file mhker : def unix do vax, set term byte 7 set input echo off set input case ignore set input silence 1 set terminal autodownload on set terminal bytesize 7 set terminal character-set latin1-iso set terminal escape-character enabled set terminal height 25 set terminal width 80 set terminal echo remote set file collision rename set file type binary set transfer bell on set transfer character-set transparent set receive packet-length 94 set attributes on set window 1 set file type binary set telnet echo remote set exit warning off input 1 OK output {ATDS\13} input 1 OK output {\13} input 1 OK output {\13} input 1 OK output {12.5.2.y\13} input 1 OK exit thank you for your help Article 11206 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: PB with scrip Kermit programming Date: 16 Feb 2000 14:34:39 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 17 Message-ID: <88echv$k3u$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <88dt3b$h9d$1@wanadoo.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 950711679 20606 128.59.39.2 (16 Feb 2000 14:34:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Feb 2000 14:34:39 GMT Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11206 In article <88dt3b$h9d$1@wanadoo.fr>, AMT wrote: : who can tell me ho to customize the command file to execute the same : commands on n nodes on a network ? : : I work on an hp/ux 10.01 workstation : i want to make automatically a command on three nodes (for example). if the : second node is down or doesn't exists my script doesn't continue and the : third node is never treated. : You posted this same question yesterday (twice) and I answered. If you did not see the answer (but you do see this), please send email to: kermit-support@columbia.edu and we'll send you the answer again privately. - Frank Article 11200 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!news1-MUC.ecrc.net.MISMATCH!news-MUC.ecrc.net!isdnet!wanadoo.fr!not-for-mail From: "AMT" Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: pb with script programming, Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:23:41 +0100 Organization: AMT Lines: 39 Message-ID: <88c1mo$o8c$1@wanadoo.fr> Reply-To: "Marie-Hélène Neyret" NNTP-Posting-Host: st-etienne-5-245.abo.wanadoo.fr X-Trace: wanadoo.fr 950635032 24844 164.138.130.245 (15 Feb 2000 17:17:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2000 17:17:12 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11200 i wirk on an hp/ux 10.0 workstation I want to make the same commands to differents nodes of my network i have coded the script .. cat /etc/hosts | while read LIGNE do EQUIP= echo $LIGNE | awk '{print $2}'` CMDE="set host $EQUIP, take /filexx" kermit -c "$CMDE"; echo "AAAAA" done echo "BBBBB"" exit the filexx have def unix do vax, set term byte 7 set input timeout-action proceed ..... set exit warning off input 1 ok if success go to suit end :suit ... ... end when all the nodes are up it's ok, but when the node "n" is down i have the message : unable to connect to "n" connection time-out. i go back to my script and it execute echo AAAAA echo BBBBB and it ends. so i havent made my commands to the nodes n+1 n+2 ..... who can help me ? Article 11201 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: pb with script programming, Date: 15 Feb 2000 17:36:46 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 95 Message-ID: <88c2re$142$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <88c1mo$o8c$1@wanadoo.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 950636206 1154 128.59.39.2 (15 Feb 2000 17:36:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2000 17:36:46 GMT Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11201 In article <88c1mo$o8c$1@wanadoo.fr>, AMT wrote: : i wirk on an hp/ux 10.0 workstation : And C-Kermit? Which version? The current version is 7.0: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html : I want to make the same commands to differents nodes of my network : : i have coded the script : .. : cat /etc/hosts | while read LIGNE : do : EQUIP= echo $LIGNE | awk '{print $2}'` : CMDE="set host $EQUIP, take /filexx" : kermit -c "$CMDE"; : echo "AAAAA" : done : echo "BBBBB"" : exit : I think in "kermit -c" you need an uppercase 'C'. However, this is not the best way to execute a C-Kermit script in Unix. Please visit: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.html to find out how to construct and invoke your C-Kermit scripts exactly as if they were shell scripts. : the filexx have : def unix do vax, set term byte 7 : set input timeout-action proceed : ..... : : set exit warning off : : input 1 ok : if success go to suit : end : :suit : ... : ... : end : : when all the nodes are up it's ok, but when the node "n" is down i have the : message : unable to connect to "n" : connection time-out. i go back to my script and it execute echo AAAAA echo : BBBBB and it ends. so i havent made my commands to the nodes n+1 n+2 ..... : : who can help me ? : Where is the list of nodes coming from? Personally, I would recode the script as a Kermit script (no shell scripting), put the list of nodes in an array, and loop through the array. Example: #!/usr/local/bin/kermit + declare \&n[] = node1 node2 node3 node4 ... for \%i 1 \fdim(&n) 1 { set host \&n[\%i] if fail { (commands to execute if node can't be reached) } else { (commands to execute if connection to node was successful) } } exit 0 Of course you can also have the script read the list of nodes from a file, or get it from an environment variable, receive them as command-line arguments, or any other way you like. Here is how to do it with command-line arguments: #!/usr/local/bin/kermit + for \%i 1 \v(argc) 1 { set host \&_[\%i] ; This is the array of command-line arguments if fail { (commands to execute if node can't be reached) } else { (commands to execute if connection to node was successful) } } exit 0 For details, see the script programming chapters of "Using C-Kermit": http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck60manual.html and the C-Kermit 7.0 update notes: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit2.html - Frank Article 11202 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!news.new-york.net!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!isdnet!wanadoo.fr!not-for-mail From: "AMT" Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: automatically run commands on differents IP nodes Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:09:28 +0100 Organization: AMT Lines: 43 Message-ID: <88c0s3$n3h$1@wanadoo.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: st-etienne-5-245.abo.wanadoo.fr X-Trace: wanadoo.fr 950634179 23665 164.138.130.245 (15 Feb 2000 17:02:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wanadoo.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2000 17:02:59 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11202 I have a problem with c-Kermit i work on hp/UX 10.0 system i want to run commands on different nodes by the same script. in this script i have coded the command cat /etc/hosts | while read LIGNE do EQUIP=`ècho $LIGNE | awk '{print $1}' kermit -C set host $EQUIP, take filexx; echo "aaaa" done echo bbbb end filexx contains def unix do vax, set term byte 7 set input echo off set input silence 1 set input timeout-action proceed ... set exit warning off input 2 OK if success go to suit end :suit output {ATDS\13} ... end if the nodes where i want to execute the command are in the good state it's ok, it is good for all the nodes, but for example, if i can't connect the third node of the file, it's ok for the nodes 1 and 2, and i have the message "cant connect to $EQUIP , connection timed out" , i come back to my script but it stop the cat and make the echo of aaaa and bbbb and stop. thanks for your help ! i want to run comma Article 11197 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!panix!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!not-for-mail Message-ID: <38A87C9F.73F74B5D@math.uiuc.edu> From: "Adam H. Lewenberg" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.7 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Commercial file servers that support kermit? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:07:27 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.174.111.227 X-Complaints-To: abuse@uiuc.edu X-Trace: vixen.cso.uiuc.edu 950566042 128.174.111.227 (Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:07:22 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:07:22 CST Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11197 I am looking for a server that would allow me to upload and download files using Kermit, preferably one running the Internet Kermit Service Daemon. This way, I could exchange files with others and make use of the power of Kermit (e.g., only upload new file/changed files, use secure transfer, etc). Does anyone know of any place that rents out disk space for this purpose (I would need ~5-10 M of space)? Thanks, A. Lewenberg adam@math.uiuc.edu Article 11203 of comp.protocols.kermit.misc: Path: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.kermit.misc Subject: Re: Commercial file servers that support kermit? Date: 15 Feb 2000 17:52:27 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 36 Message-ID: <88c3or$1q8$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <38A87C9F.73F74B5D@math.uiuc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 950637147 1864 128.59.39.2 (15 Feb 2000 17:52:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2000 17:52:27 GMT Xref: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu comp.protocols.kermit.misc:11203 In article <38A87C9F.73F74B5D@math.uiuc.edu>, Adam H. Lewenberg wrote: : I am looking for a server that would allow me to upload and : download files using Kermit, preferably one running the Internet : Kermit Service Daemon. This way, : I could exchange files with others and make use of the power : of Kermit (e.g., only upload new file/changed files, use secure : transfer, etc). : : Does anyone know of any place that rents out disk space for this : purpose (I would need ~5-10 M of space)? : It appears the response to this query has not been exactly overwhelming. There are two issues: 1. Convincing a site it is safe -- and a good idea -- to run IKSD, and helping them install it, if necessary. We're glad to help. 2. Having a user ID and disk space on that site. Issues of access and sharing in IKSD are no different from FTP. If you have a user ID, you have your own access rights. If you're anonymous, you're restricted to the /pub/ftp tree (or other segment of the sysadmin's choice). Whether anonymous users can upload files is at the discretion of the sysadmin. As we all know, allowing anonymous uploads is dangerous, and allowing read access to anonymously uploaded files is even more dangerous -- not only to the potential downloader (viruses, etc), but to the site administrator (liability, copyright infringement, etc). Think of IKSD as an alternative to FTPD that provides more functionality and a greater range of authentication methods. It doesn't solve social problems. - Frank